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Semi-Auto and Supressive Fire

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  • Semi-Auto and Supressive Fire

    Is semi-automatic fire as effective for supressive fire as full auto as far as a riflemen goes?

    What I'm trying to say is can the M14 provide adaquite supressive fire if need be(I know M14 has full auto but can only acurately be used while in prone)?

  • #2
    Firing a full auto M-14 is like donkey punching your girl in the bedroom and trying to hold on. :)

    Prone(and preferably with a bi-pod), it can deliver useful suppressing fires though.

    Suppressing fire is great against a poorly trained opponent, and less great against a well trained opponent. The primary suppressing and grazing fires delivered by a infantry squad come from the squad machineguns(be they M-249s, M-240s, M-60s, RPKs, RPDS, BARs, MG43s, whatever).

    Even a WWII MG-43 delivers about 2x the firepower of a modern rifle squad minus it's machinegun.

    Rifles are for aimed fire, machineguns are for suppressing fire. If you want more suppressing fire then you buy the armoror a couple cases of beer and get an extra one issued to your squad. M-16s, Aks, etc blow for suppressing fire. They have too little magazine capacity, are close to uncontrollable in anything but a rested or prone position, and even then are only accurate firing short bursts. They also tend to overheat when they're used in that role, and it is a damned good way to burn through your ammunition load very quickly.

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    • #3
      Is it true that they will only load M14 mags with 17 rounds instead of 20?
      Last edited by Praxus; 24 Jul 04,, 04:09.

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      • #4
        Almost all military magazines are down-loaded 2 rds for reliability purposes.

        I used to load 18rds in my M-21 magazine, and 7rds in my .45 magazine.

        An M-16 is normally loaded with 28rds of ammunition, an M-9 with 13.

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        • #5
          Firing short bursts is optimal for machine guns too, two or maybe three rounds per burst but no more, if the firing range is beyond 300 meters then the two round burst is ideal since the first bullet will hit the target the second is most likely to miss. I never used surpessive fire with machinegun, only those short bursts since we didn't carried much ammunition only 200 rounds for machinegunners and they had to last for the entire day so I had to pay close attention to what I shoot and how much, riflemans only get 90 rounds/3 mags for one day of combat.

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          • #6
            US Machinegunners carry 600-750rds each plus each man in the squad carries an extra belt of MG ammo as well.

            US troops are issued 7x30rd mags for combat operations(210rds).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by M21Sniper
              US Machinegunners carry 600-750rds each plus each man in the squad carries an extra belt of MG ammo as well.

              US troops are issued 7x30rd mags for combat operations(210rds).
              Lucky for you guys, 600 rounds is something you can spare a little more on a single target, I remember one exercise where I had to eliminate five man sized targets from 500 meters and two from 700 meters, wind blowed heavily from my left side and just barely with 100 rounds I managed to destroy them all, half of those bullets were spent to 700 meters trying to compensate for the strong wind I kept saying what a waste of bullets since one sniper could have taken them out with maximum of twelve rounds.
              Is that 600-750 rounds for M249 or M60 since the SAW is for 5.56mm and the M60 is for 7.62x51.
              How much weights seven 30rd magazine of 5.56mm.

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              • #8
                A loaded M-16 mag weighs i dunno, maybe 2 pounds.

                The M-249 and M-60 have different ammunition containers, with the M-60s being of smaller capacity(100rds) and bulkier.

                The SAW fires from 200rd cloth ammo drum bags or 250rd hard plastic box mags(which suck). It can alse use M-16 magazines.

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                • #9
                  A good trick to is if you have rounds sitting in the mags for long periods of time, take them out of the mags for a couple of hours once a week when time permits. This allows the springs in the magazine to relax which extends the life of the magazine, it also is a good time to clean your mags and count your ammunition to make sure you have your shit in one sock and have not lost any. Keep some jack rounds handy for the new bloke who will lose some undoubtably and you can swap them for cigarettes.

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                  • #10
                    I think you folks are undermining the benefits of a automatic supressive fire. If you ever seen the Vietnam training videos from Special Forces groups, you will see that automatic supressive fire is important in escaping from the Vietcong. In the jungles of Vietnam, they said they rarely seen the enemy, and that a noise, or suspicious behavior in the brush indicates there was trouble. The birds and bees are your friends in that enviroment. If there are no birds and the bees around there is trouble. What the SF soldiers do is align themselves in a almost slight diagonal order so they can take turns doing the firing supressive work. The first man starts, as soon he runs out of ammo, he runs to the back of the line, then the 2nd guy starts firing. They do this until they feel they have pinned down the enemy enough to run like hell to a possible extraction point. SF such as the Recon Team. To say that the AR's are not good for supressive fire, I think this is wrong. The BAR's in World War 2 were used in supression firing. It had 20 round clips, and there is a very easily solution to go around limitations of the clip. Simple have more guns participating in the supression. Take turns doing the supression. That's what they did in World War 2. They would get two BAR's and take turns doing supression fire on the same forces.
                    Last edited by metalbeast; 13 Nov 04,, 23:48.

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                    • #11
                      "To say that the AR's are not good for supressive fire, I think this is wrong. The BAR's in World War 2 were used in supression firing. It had 20 round clips, and there is a very easily solution to go around limitations of the clip."

                      The BAR is a machine gun, and weighs about 2.5x more than an M-16. It is much more controllable.

                      SpecOps forces use suppressive fires from rifles for disengagements under fire, but they're also a hell of a lot more highly trained than 'regular' infantry.

                      The typical line infantryman using a rifle for suppressing fire is likely to hit nothing in exchange for expending the bulk of his ammunition supply. In a regular line unit the suppressing fire comes from MGs, at least in US units.

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                      • #12
                        My Favourite personal favourite.


                        M249 5.56mm

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                        • #13
                          M240B is heavier weapon, deployed to less troops in comparison to the m249, right?

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                          • #14
                            The 240B basically replaced the M-60 GPMG.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by M21Sniper
                              The 240B basically replaced the M-60 GPMG.
                              Im on the impression that M-60 was not so popular or user friendly.

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