Vatican urged to halt beatification

[troung]

Vatican urged to halt beatification

By Richard Owen
Israel has urged the Vatican to halt procedures putting Pius XII, the controversial wartime Pope, on the path to sainthood.

Oded Ben-Hur, the Israeli Ambassador to the Holy See, said: “I am asking the Vatican to block the beatification process for Pius XII.” He added that the process should be halted until archives relating to the Second World War were opened to scholars. NI_MPU('middle');Pius XII, formerly the papal nuncio to Germany and later Pius XI’s Secretary of State as Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli, is accused of turning a blind eye to the Holocaust and remaining silent about Nazi anti-Semitism. Mr Ben-Hur was speaking at the launch of The Holy See and the Jewish Question, a study by the Italian historian Alessandro Duce. He said that even those close to Pius XII were critical of his failure to condemn Nazi atrocities. Vatican officials said that the Pope had sought to save Jews in Rome through quiet diplomacy, fearing that public attacks on Hitler would make matters worse. Scholars said Vatican archives from the period of Pius XI showed that as a diplomat the future Pius XII was often indecisive.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...423592,00.html

[Jay]

Even Mother Teresa was honored with beatification, for what ever its worth. I mean the the person shudve performed miracles, I havent seen Mother Teresa or Pope John Paul II for that matter doing any miracles.

[gunnut]

Even Mother Teresa was honored with beatification, for what ever its worth. I mean the the person shudve performed miracles, I havent seen Mother Teresa or Pope John Paul II for that matter doing any miracles.

I guess that's what they call "faith."

You gotta have faith to see some of the things they see. Personally, I have no faith in them.

[starsiege]

well...it was ealier to believe the claims of miracles when they were said to have happened in the past..now with a critical scientific community and even more critical journalists, its impossible to claim a miracle and make it stick thru all the investigations what would inevitably follow..hence i would assume that the new trend for the vatican would be to beatify without miracles.

[gunnut]

well...it was ealier to believe the claims of miracles when they were said to have happened in the past..now with a critical scientific community and even more critical journalists, its impossible to claim a miracle and make it stick thru all the investigations what would inevitably follow..hence i would assume that the new trend for the vatican would be to beatify without miracles.

They still have the same process in place. The nominated had to have performed 3 miracles to become a saint. What the miracle was would be up to the intepretation.

One of Mother Teresa's miracle was that someone recovered from a terminal illness after talking to her. The Vatican considers that a legitimate miracle. Who knows? The faithful will see what they want to see. The skeptics will doubt what they see. Who's right? Only god knows.

I'm not quite sure what 3 miracles were nominated for Mother Teresa's sainthood. That was just my guess.

[lemontree]

Even Mother Teresa was honored with beatification, for what ever its worth. I mean the the person shudve performed miracles, I havent seen Mother Teresa or Pope John Paul II for that matter doing any miracles.

I cannot speak for Pope John Paul II, but the work of Mother Teresa is in itself a miracle of sorts. About 500 odd centres in 133 countries taking care of thousands of destitutes. Giving thousands of unfortunate people a helping hand, now if that is not a miracle then what is?

[Ray]

All that stuff about talking to a holy person and getting cured is an old hat in India. I won't mention the name but there is a Hindu Godman who is also given the credit for such miracles! And yet, there are reports that he is not terribly good a man! ;) The TV showed a Moslem baba who was also performing miracles! All humbug, in my opinion.

Miracles are not scientific.

Notwithstanding, it is adequate for one to serve with devotion for mankind and Mother Teresa served the world. She is indeed a great lady and there is no second opinion about that.

That is enough to warrant beatification in my opinion.

And anyway, it is a matter for the Roman Catholics. Since it is not impinging on anyone lifestyle, who are they to suggest that beatification should not be done or otherwise?

[troung]

Does Israel have some leverage?


Vatican to Israel: Ban gay parade (in Jerusalem)

by Ynetnews.com
Says ‘march in city considered holy to Jews, Muslims and Christians would offend faithful’

The Vatican on Wednesday asked Israel to ban a gay parade this week in Jerusalem, saying the march in the city considered holy to Jews, Muslims and Christians would offend the faithful.

Thousands of gay activists are expected to march in Jerusalem on Friday.

“The Holy See has reiterated on many occasions that the right to freedom of expression ... Is subject to just limits, in particular when the exercise of this right would offend the religious sentiments of believers,” the Vatican said.


“It is clear that the gay parade scheduled to take place in Jerusalem will prove offensive to the great majority of Jews, Muslims and Christians, given the sacred character of the city of Jerusalem,” it said.


The Vatican said it had asked its envoy to Israel to convey its regret over the planned demonstration to Israel’s Foreign Ministry.


The Vatican also expressed hope the decision might be “Reconsidered, as a mark of respect for the religious sentiments of all those who venerate the Holy City.” Vatican teaching holds that homosexuals are “Intrinsically disordered.”


The church, however, says gays and lesbians should be treated with compassion and dignity. In 2000, the Vatican bitterly denounced a gay pride festival in Rome as an “Insult” to Christians.


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...325849,00.html

[Ray]

That's news.

I did not know that Israel had Gay Parades.

I thought the Jews are quite orthodox and puritan in their approach to life.

Oh sure, the Jews will have their share of homosexuals, but public display is something I didn't think could occur.

[starsiege]

All that stuff about talking to a holy person and getting cured is an old hat in India. I won't mention the name but there is a Hindu Godman who is also given the credit for such miracles! And yet, there are reports that he is not terribly good a man! ;) The TV showed a Moslem baba who was also performing miracles! All humbug, in my opinion.

Miracles are not scientific.

Notwithstanding, it is adequate for one to serve with devotion for mankind and Mother Teresa served the world. She is indeed a great lady and there is no second opinion about that.

That is enough to warrant beatification in my opinion.

And anyway, it is a matter for the Roman Catholics. Since it is not impinging on anyone lifestyle, who are they to suggest that beatification should not be done or otherwise?

i totally agree that if anyone is gonna get sainthood it should be mother teresa!!

That's news.

I did not know that Israel had Gay Parades.

I thought the Jews are quite orthodox and puritan in their approach to life.

Oh sure, the Jews will have their share of homosexuals, but public display is something I didn't think could occur.

thats what i thought too, but there are quite a number of gay jews, albeit lesser than that of some other cummunities in the US. especially in the san francisco, Los Angels area

[ZFBoxcar]

Israel is the only state where it is not dangerous to your life expectancy to be openly gay. And Tel Aviv essentially has the culture of LA spliced with NY lol, so they have had parades for a long time, but in Jerusalem they are relatively recent and there is a lot of resistance from religious Jews, Christians and Muslims.

[Ray]

Ira,

In my school, which was a boarding, we had quite a few Jews.

They were very puritanical and I never heard of their being involved in any hanky panky.

[ZFBoxcar]

Judaism is not united on the subject like Islam is, and Jews are also a cultural/ethnic group, meaning that non-religious Jews who have no reason to care about homosexuality are still be considered Jews. The rabbi at my synagogue in Toronto is gay, and the congregation doesn't seem to mind. In North America and Europe, Judaism is divided into Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform. Most Orthodox oppose homosexuality (although not absolutely all of them), Conservatives are mixed on the issue, and Reform is generally accepting. In Israel it is different. They are mainly divided into Secular, Observant, and Haredi. The Haredi are probably the guys throwing rocks at police to get them to ban the gay pride parade. The observant probably oppose it for the most part, but aren't fanatical about the subject, and the secular support the parade.

[Ray]

Thanks.

Good to learn.

[Jay]

I cannot speak for Pope John Paul II, but the work of Mother Teresa is in itself a miracle of sorts. About 500 odd centres in 133 countries taking care of thousands of destitutes. Giving thousands of unfortunate people a helping hand, now if that is not a miracle then what is?

Sir,
If they come under miracles, then there are lot more people who could claim that. I dont exactly condone as to why they gave saint hood for Mother Theresa, but I'm just looking at the reasons the Vatican gave for beautification.

And anyway, it is a matter for the Roman Catholics. Since it is not impinging on anyone lifestyle, who are they to suggest that beatification should not be done or otherwise?

I totally agree. If Saibaba and Rajneesh are made Gurus, why not Mother Theresa and John Paul.