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  • Xm8 Prototypes Surpass M16 ?

    XM8 PROTOTYPES SURPASS M16, EXPERTS SAY

    By Matthew Cox
    Army Times Staff Writer
    October 11, 2003
    www.armytimes.com

    It looks like the first prototypes of what could be the Army's next rifle already outclass anything in the M16 family. At least that’s the analysis of Army weapons experts who recently traveled to Germany to check out the XM8.

    “The performance was truly remarkable,” said Col. Michael Smith, the head of Project Manager Soldier Weapons, after a recent trip to Heckler & Koch Inc. to inspect the first prototypes of the 5.56mm assault weapon intended to give soldiers a more reliable alternative to the current M16A2 and M16A4 rifles and M4 carbine.

    The 30 prototypes have been shipped to Aberdeen Proving Ground, Md., where
    they are slated to undergo testing under laboratory conditions in mid-November.
    Soldiers are scheduled to lay their hands on the weapon some time in December, when the Army expects to receive another 170 prototypes.

    If all goes well, the XM8 could be ready for fielding by late summer 2005. The XM8, the Army experts say, is a true family of weapons with different barrel lengths designed to address all the needs of an infantry squad. The standard model is expected to be lighter than the M4 carbine and no larger in size. There’s also a sharpshooter version for increased range; a compact version for cramped quarters; and an auto-rifle version for a squad-automatic weapon. While months of testing lie ahead, Smith and his colleagues were pleased to find that one prototype has fired 15,000 rounds without a jam and without being cleaned.

    While the XM8 was not exposed to battlefield conditions, it's still a feat the current service rifle hasn't come close to rivaling, said Rich Audette, deputy project manager for PM Soldier Weapons. “I was around for the M16A2 and M4 carbine [development], and I have never seen anything coming out of the box firing like this,” he said. During their Oct. 20-23 trip to Germany, the weapons experts said they were -impressed after watching Heckler & Koch engineers “fire four high-capacity magazines, with 100 rounds a piece, in less than five minutes,” Smith said. “It fired beautifully.”

    Difference In Weapons

    This improved reliability can be credited to differences in the XM8s operating system from the one in the M16, the Army officials said. For instance, a thin gas tube runs almost the entire length of the barrel in all of the M16 variants. When the weapon is fired, the gases travel back down the tube into the chamber and push the bolt back to eject the shell casing and chamber a new round. The XM8's gas system instead is connected to a mechanical operating rod, which pushes back the bolt to eject the casing and chamber the new round each time the weapon is fired. So there's no carbon residue constantly being blown back into the chamber, reducing the need to clean the weapon as often. “What happens is you don't get gases blowing back into the chamber that have contaminates in them,” said Lt. Col. Matthew Clarke, the head of Product Manager Individual Weapons. The XM8 also has a much tighter seal between the bolt and the ejection port, which should cut down on the amount of debris that can blow into the weapon when the ejection port's dust cover is open, Smith said.

    The XM8 is part of the Army's effort to perfect an over-and-under style weapon, known as the XM29, developed by Alliant Techsystems and H&K. It fires special airbursting projectiles and standard 5.56mm ammunition. But the XM29 still is too heavy and unwieldy for Army requirements. Instead of scrapping the XM29, the Army decided to perfect each of XM29's components separately, so soldiers can take advantage of new technology sooner. The parts would be brought back together when lighter materials become available. The XM8 is one of those components.

    Testing The Equipment

    From December through late May, soldiers will get a chance to fire the prototypes in desert, tropical and arctic environments. A limited-user test then will be conducted, possibly at Fort Campbell, Ky., where soldiers will test the prototypes for about three weeks while training in offensive -and defensive scenarios.
    Improvements will be made based on soldier and test feedback before the final three-months of operational tests, which are scheduled to begin in fall 2004.
    The final decision will be up to the Army’ senior leadership, but weapons officials said they were confident the XM8 weapon system will be adopted.

    “With the introduction of any new weapon system, you have people that like it and people that don’t like it,” Smith said. “What we have to do is demonstrate a capability that is better than the current weapon system, and we think we can do that.”

  • #2
    If they are going to insult our soldiers by giving them this POS, at least give them all 20" Barrels and not some dinky 12.5" Barrel.

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    • #3

      Nice toy gun

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      • #4
        I'm pretty sure we're going with the XM29 (being tested in Minnesota!).

        The XM29 has programmable 20mm airburst rounds, a feature I don't see on the XM8.
        "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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        • #5
          If only it were possible to put the XM320 grenade launcher on the XM8 automatic rifle.

          Or more reasonably give all the variants a nice solid stock. The current stock on all the XM variants will break if you try butt stroking someone with it. Hand-to-hand isn't as less likely as firefights, but it could still be a good idea to be prepared for it nonetheless.

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          • #6
            The XM-8 does take a modified version of the M-203 grenade launcher.

            The XM-29 has been deemed unworthy for field use and is now an ongoing R&D program.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by M21Sniper
              The XM-8 does take a modified version of the M-203 grenade launcher.

              The XM-29 has been deemed unworthy for field use and is now an ongoing R&D program.
              Are you sure?

              R. Lee Ermey was on Mail Call the other night saying the XM-29 is going to be the weapon used by the infantry in the future.
              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Irondüke
                Are you sure?

                R. Lee Ermey was on Mail Call the other night saying the XM-29 is going to be the weapon used by the infantry in the future.
                I was under the impression that there was no more XM-29, too big and too heavy. Instead we're supposed to go for a 2 weapon solution, the XM-8 and the XM-25 25mm semi-auto Grenade Launcher (same round as the XM-307). I'd imagine people equipped with the XM-25 would be using the PDW XM-8 for self defense. Well all this from the horses mouth: Project Executive Office: Soldier.

                https://peosoldier.army.mil/default....ction=programs



                nice blog about the XM-8 (sorta like XM-8 news):

                http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/cat_xm8_xm25.html

                The XM-320 is a modified AG-36, and was specifically made for the XM-8. U can check the videos at Army times.
                Last edited by GabRaz; 05 Jul 04,, 20:00.

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                • #9
                  The XM-29 is history IronDuke.

                  I am disposed to the Barret XM-468 personally.

                  I hope that's the rifle selected.

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                  • #10
                    Guns that look like toys, I guess that's the future. (And it aaain't pretty!)

                    Heh, okay, so they're more or less dropping the wonderful AR-15 derrivatives that have been in the U.S. armed forces for the last fourty years (and failing, on quite a large scale, in most major events). Now, what do we have? Same caliber, more plastic and no real design improvements (the over-glorified rails... where?) over the existing ordnance?

                    I guess I'm missing something here! LOL

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by eMGee
                      Guns that look like toys, I guess that's the future. (And it aaain't pretty!)

                      Heh, okay, so they're more or less dropping the wonderful AR-15 derrivatives that have been in the U.S. armed forces for the last fourty years (and failing, on quite a large scale, in most major events). Now, what do we have? Same caliber, more plastic and no real design improvements (the over-glorified rails... where?) over the existing ordnance?

                      I guess I'm missing something here! LOL
                      When & where was there large scale weapon failure by the US Armed Forces in the last forty years? Vietnam? Weapon failure isn't what cost that effort.

                      Desert Storm? Enduring Freedom? Iraqi Freedom? Those conflicts lasted from 72 hours to three weeks. And it wasn't America that lost horribly to them.

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                      • #12
                        the xm-468 is based on the m-4 and uses a new 6.8x43mm cartridge.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by M21Sniper
                          uses a new 6.8x43mm cartridge.
                          I am trying very hard not to get my hopes up.

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                          • #14
                            You don't like the squirrel rifles either sir?

                            LOL

                            A bigger cartridge would be nice.

                            Here's some more info on the US Army's(hopefully) next battlerifle cartridge....

                            http://www.remington.com/NR/exeres/0...ookie%5Ftest=1

                            Madison, NC – In a joint effort to develop a centerfire rifle cartridge with greater medium range capability and effectiveness than standard 5.56 x 45mm, the US Military has collaborated with Remington to produce the 6.8mm Remington SPC.

                            The 6.8mm Remington SPC is an intermediate length rifle cartridge based on the 30 Remington case. Designed to function in M4/M16 type rifles, the 6.8mm Remington SPC was specifically developed to provide increased reliability, incapacitation, and accuracy not only at close quarters combat distance, but ranges out to 500 meters.

                            The 6.8mm Remington SPC (Special Purpose Cartridge) will be offered in three versions for 2004, including Remington’s new Premier® Match, line of ammunition. The 115 grain MatchKing® BTHP bullet will deliver a muzzle velocity of 2800 fps and 2002 ft-lbs of energy while providing low felt recoil and 1 MOA accuracy at 100 yards. The 6.8mm Remington SPC will also be available in both BTHP and Metal-Case 115 grain versions.
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by Bill; 07 Jul 04,, 23:52.

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                            • #15
                              Ooooh!!!!! I've been lusting after the AR-15 to XM-4 6.8 conversion offered by Barrett everytime I see it in my American Rifleman!!!!!!
                              Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
                              (Been There)

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