View Poll Results: Samurai vs Medieval Knight

Voters
32. You may not vote on this poll
  • Samurai

    20 62.50%
  • Medieval Knight

    12 37.50%
Page 47 of 49 FirstFirst ... 383940414243444546474849 LastLast
Results 691 to 705 of 726

Thread: Samurai against knight

  1. #691
    Global Moderator Defense Professional
    Join Date
    30 May 06
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,269
    the wall wasn't contiguous and was actually regularly breached at a number of points
    its main advantage was the ability of those on the paved connecting outposts to reinforce neighbouring passes and beacon towers under attack very quickly.
    its whole construction philosophy changes over time and in the regions where the threats shifted and changed

    its not a single engineering entity

  2. #692
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    Not say it couldn't be done or didn't happen, just that to the best of my knowledge it doesn't seem to have been used on a large scale and recorded.
    That's because you read about the major breaches or the repulsion of small incursions. Well, the small incursions is what leads to the big breaches. The Steppe horsemen can always withdraw when the objective becomes unattainable. The wall can't pursue and destroy.
    Chimo

  3. #693
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
    Join Date
    15 Apr 08
    Location
    Transylvania
    Posts
    5,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    You're shitting me! Ain Jalut
    What about it,Sir?Crusaders negociated with Kitbuga until they learned of renewed raids in Europe.Then they stayed neutral.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  4. #694
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    What about it,Sir?Crusaders negociated with Kitbuga until they learned of renewed raids in Europe.Then they stayed neutral.
    They didn't stay neutral. They allowed the Mamluks through their territories to get to the Mongols.
    Chimo

  5. #695
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    I've searched through the internet and I've not found one single incidence where the wall was breached at prepared points. The Qing breached the wall through treachery by a traitor Ming Gneral, not by superior breaching power. Sorry, Crusader technology is NOT superior to Ming Engineering.

    Hell, the Mamlukes found the weakness, tunneling under the Crusader wall and undermining the foundation.
    Last edited by Officer of Engineers; 18 Aug 16, at 06:14.
    Chimo

  6. #696
    Global Moderator Defense Professional
    Join Date
    30 May 06
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,269
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    I've searched through the internet and I've not found one single incidence where the wall was breached at prepared points. The Qing breached the wall through treachery by a traitor Ming Gneral, not by superior breaching power. Sorry, Crusader technology is NOT superior to Ming Engineering.

    Hell, the Mamlukes found the weakness, tunneling under the Crusader wall and undermining the foundation.
    also the wall was not contiguous - breaches used to happen in open sections - and against lightly guarded areas where they didn't necessarily have parapet lanes for horses (eg wide enough for a fast moving column but not mounted troops)

    the heavily fortified sections tended to be avoided as there was no point throwing people against them. the mongols were strategists - not suicide squads

  7. #697
    Staff Emeritus
    Military Professional
    Contrary by Nature.
    zraver's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Oct 06
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,457
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    I've searched through the internet and I've not found one single incidence where the wall was breached at prepared points. The Qing breached the wall through treachery by a traitor Ming Gneral, not by superior breaching power. Sorry, Crusader technology is NOT superior to Ming Engineering.

    Hell, the Mamlukes found the weakness, tunneling under the Crusader wall and undermining the foundation.
    Sorry, but no forts in China from the period in question even come close to crusader castles. Granted the source is WIKI but... Counter weight trebuchets introduced from the West lead to the rapid collapse of the frontier cities of the Song Empire including the battle of Xiangyang. The Chinese lead the way in a lot of areas, but siege warfare wasn't one of them.

  8. #698
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Sorry, but no forts in China from the period in question even come close to crusader castles. Granted the source is WIKI but... Counter weight trebuchets introduced from the West lead to the rapid collapse of the frontier cities of the Song Empire including the battle of Xiangyang. The Chinese lead the way in a lot of areas, but siege warfare wasn't one of them.
    The actual point was the Mongols had both the technique and the technology to overcome Crusader castles.
    Chimo

  9. #699
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
    Join Date
    15 Apr 08
    Location
    Transylvania
    Posts
    5,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    The actual point was the Mongols had both the technique and the technology to overcome Crusader castles.
    And they still failed doing so in Eastern Europe.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  10. #700
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    And they still failed doing so in Eastern Europe.
    They weren't serious. 30,000 men ain't enough to conquer Eastern Europe. Even if it were the best military force on earth at the time.
    Chimo

  11. #701
    Staff Emeritus
    Military Professional
    Contrary by Nature.
    zraver's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Oct 06
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,457
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    The actual point was the Mongols had both the technique and the technology to overcome Crusader castles.
    Subutai's raids occurred before the Mongols got counter-weight trebuchets. The first known Mongol use of them was by Hugalu who wasn't even born until 10 years after Subutai died. By then the Mongol army wasn't nearly the force it had been. Subutai's warriors were hardier, more fatalistic, more callous, not all at urban and far more motivated.

  12. #702
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    The Mongols had competent generals after Subatai, though not nearly his stature but they weren't know nothings either.
    Chimo

  13. #703
    Staff Emeritus
    Military Professional
    Contrary by Nature.
    zraver's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Oct 06
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,457
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    The Mongols had competent generals after Subatai, though not nearly his stature but they weren't know nothings either.
    They were competent, some like Tamurlane were even great but none of their men were of the caliber of the troops that raided Poland and crushed Hungary generalled by someone of Subutai's caliber.

  14. #704
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
    Join Date
    15 Apr 08
    Location
    Transylvania
    Posts
    5,059
    And what sort of troops were those?The troops that conquered Mongolia,China or Khwarzem were 50-70 years old(Subutai was 70 at the time).The troops were equally good .They had the same training and skill and came from the same lifestyle and culture.

    The leaders afterwards were not Genghis or Subutai,but they also faced tougher opposition.The Europeans adapted,fast.The Chinese did not.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  15. #705
    Military Professional
    Join Date
    06 Aug 03
    Posts
    29,353
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    The leaders afterwards were not Genghis or Subutai,but they also faced tougher opposition.The Europeans adapted,fast.The Chinese did not.
    That's horse puckey. The Song had canon parks long before the Europeans.
    Chimo

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Ninjas & Knights
    By Ironside in forum Ancient, Medieval & Early Modern Ages
    Replies: 106
    Last Post: 08 Jan 09,, 13:40
  2. Last Samurai gun question
    By Beaugeste93 in forum Small Arms and Personal Weapons
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 11 Jul 05,, 00:16

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •