View Poll Results: Samurai vs Medieval Knight

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  • Samurai

    20 62.50%
  • Medieval Knight

    12 37.50%
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Thread: Samurai against knight

  1. #601
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarek Morgen View Post
    uh the entrance was free
    Boy, they were bad business men...
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  2. #602
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Not really.They got votes and quiet instead .When nobody bothers you on the throne you can enrich yourself at your heart content.Besides the greatest wealth is power.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  3. #603
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Not really.They got votes and quiet instead .When nobody bothers you on the throne you can enrich yourself at your heart content.Besides the greatest wealth is power.
    Aha, so nothing really changed.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  4. #604
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Yes it did.We are the best,the epitome of development.Our values of equality tolerance and compassion are the greatest.We even have toilet paper,unlike those primitives.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  5. #605
    Military Professional sappersgt's Avatar
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    by Tarek Morgen
    uh the entrance was free
    That's just General Admission. The good seats will cost you. Still.

    by Mihais
    We even have toilet paper,unlike those primitives.
    What's wrong with wiping your arse with an only slightly used sponge...on a stick?
    Reddite igitur quae sunt Caesaris Caesari et quae sunt Dei Deo
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  6. #606
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    which primitives are we exactly talking about?

  7. #607
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sappersgt View Post
    What's wrong with wiping your arse with an only slightly used sponge...on a stick?
    Nothing.Toilet paper is still better at wiping the BS we tend to live by.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  8. #608
    Senior Contributor Triple C's Avatar
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    This topic is fun but also incredibly vague, since the samurai and the knight were both social classes, not types of warriors who fought with specific weapon-skill combinations.

    Part of the reason for the TV show's lack of rigor is its blindness towards change over time and technological specificity. My ex-girlfriend schooled in classical studies laughed herself out at an episode involving gladiators because the show states the Romans used steel swords. In fact, the Roman swords were slabs of iron with thinly hardened surfaces. The arms and techniques of the combatants were anything but stable through the ages. Divining a pattern of results from clashes that depended on the contingencies and vagaries of tactics is little better than coin-flipping. However, I am mildly qualified to give a short overview of technology on the European side.


    For the most part, European knights wore mail shirts until the mid-13th century when funerary effigies begin to portray warriors clad in a combination of mail and pieces of plate. By 1300s plate armor was near maturity; articulated suits of armor begin to supplant coats of little plates. During the same time, knights discarded the sword and shield for a war sword, or longsword, that could be wielded with either one hand on horse or both when dismounted. Actually, the first choice of weapons for knights and men-at-arms on the battlefield was the lance. When kitted out for a duel, French knights carried a lance, a war sword, an arming sword (a sidearm of the one-handed variety), a "battle axe" which was a freakish weapon that has a spiked head, a hammer, and a axe-blade on the opposite side, and a stabbing dagger. Deducing from contemporary chronicles, none of those weapons were particularly effective against armor and it took a lot of effort to kill an armored man.

    If the producers really wanted to compare the warriors 1 to 1, they have to make up their minds to pick a specific segment of time instead of coming up with a generic representation so that technology can be adequately modeled.
    Last edited by Triple C; 06 Jan 11, at 00:58.
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  9. #609
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple C View Post
    and it took a lot of effort to kill an armored man
    Somethings just never change do they after all these centuries........
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  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple C View Post
    When kitted out for a duel, French knights carried a lance, a war sword, an arming sword (a sidearm of the one-handed variety), a "battle axe" which was a freakish weapon that has a spiked head, a hammer, and a axe-blade on the opposite side, and a stabbing dagger. Deducing from contemporary chronicles, none of those weapons were particularly effective against armor and it took a lot of effort to kill an armored man.
    Ever wonder where the word Stilleto heel comes from? The Stilletto (misericorde) was a long thin dagger carried by combatants during the era of late period knights who were fully kitted out cap'n pie.

    The blade would be used on disabled knights who either were too far gone, could not offer a ransom, or were too dangerous to ransom. The blade would be inserted through the eye slits through the eye and into the brain. This move was called the coup de grace.

    If not the Stilleto a knight would carry a Rondel dagger from 2-4 sided and extremely stiff and pointed able to be forced between joints and through mail (not plate).

    The fact that knights and those who faced them had to carry specialist weapons to deliver a coup de grace testifies to how well protected the late period knight was.

  11. #611
    Senior Contributor Triple C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    The blade would be used on disabled knights who either were too far gone, could not offer a ransom, or were too dangerous to ransom. The blade would be inserted through the eye slits through the eye and into the brain. This move was called the coup de grace.
    Oh yeah. I think that's a socially important historical fact. Only a tiny percentage of the human population could do this kind of violence on a routine basis, and the armor cement the control of the warrior caste over the rest of the hierarchy.
    All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
    -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

  12. #612
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    I know it's a few months late, but this video should settle the whole Katanas vs armor vs longsword issue.


  13. #613
    Senior Contributor 1979's Avatar
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    I think I'll stick to the wheat threshing tool.
    J'ai en marre.

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1979 View Post
    I think I'll stick to the wheat threshing tool.
    Some of the best weapons against Armor are made from farming tools.

    Anyways, A knight can kick a Samurai in the b*tt. Samurais just aren't equiped or trained to fight such a heavily armored opponent.

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr9527 View Post
    Some of the best weapons against Armor are made from farming tools.

    Anyways, A knight can kick a Samurai in the b*tt. Samurais just aren't equiped or trained to fight such a heavily armored opponent.
    The general problem with this assesment is that

    A. Knights (and Samurai) both cover a long period, not all of wihch they wore super heavy armour. the Knight's maile era was probably longer than it's plate era, and maile was certinly not indestructable by non-blunt / gun-powder weapons.

    B. During the real peak of the Samurai (which really came after the era of the Knights) one of the most common battlefield weapon was...



    This certainly would be enough to deal with any armour.... and contrary to popular visions, Samurais DID use guns themself as well, just not the really high ranking onces due to safety reasons.

    In the end, the biggest problem of the comparison is that the two sides evolved through different circumstances and their peaks were not the same period, the Samurai's peak era army composition method was essentially the type that replaced the Knight era's peak armies.
    Last edited by RollingWave; 28 Jul 11, at 09:41.

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