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Leftist and Middle Eastern Hypocrisy: The Abu Ghraib abuse scandal

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  • Leftist and Middle Eastern Hypocrisy: The Abu Ghraib abuse scandal

    It Takes A Lot Of Nerve!
    Rev. Ken Joseph Jr. (back to web version) | Send


    May 6, 2004


    New York - On a brief stopover on the way back to Baghdad the story of the terrible treatment of Iraqi Prisoners in Abu Ghraib prison broke. Having been by there many times and having a family member who was actually forced to work their during the time of Sadaam Hussein I look at it from a very different perspective.

    While looking at the pictures and reading the descriptions of the unacceptable way the Iraqi prisoners were treated something began to feel very strange.

    As a wave of condemnation began to rise, proper of course, for those of us who were in Iraq during the time of Sadaam and have been throughout the Middle East it all began to ring very hollow.

    While we must rightly condemn by all means possible and prosecute each one who violated the rights of the Iraqis put in their charge, it seems so very strange that the loud cries of outrage ring out so strong and true when the crime is on the side of the United States, but those same voices were completely silent for 35 years during the terror that was Sadaam Hussein and to this day are silent on the `thug rulers` throught the Middle East and throughout the world who must have all had a good laugh as they looked at the pictures and read the descriptions of the terrible abuse of the Prisoners under US control.

    Sadaam himself, must have smiled at the `Childs play` in comparison to what he did on a daily basis and what occurs throughout the region even as I write.

    The UN itself, currently being considered for a role in the future of Iraq according to the Iraqis who despise it so intently never lifted a finger of opposition to Sadaam and his daily terror.

    Ask anyone living in countries in the region what happens if you are picked up by the `Amin` or secret police! They all live in holy fear of crossing the secret police . . . today! This is the reason they never speak put and appear to be so docile and anti-American.

    Ask the Iraqis why they do not rise to the challenge given them by their liberation by America! It is because they are afraid, and rightly so that after the US hands over power on June 30th the `thugs` will be back and will as they always do `take care of` all who spoke the truth!

    I was in Iraq during the time of Sadaam Hussein and can testify to the sheer terror of my family members at the horror of Sadaam Hussein.

    I remember the way the whole house would stiffen at an unexpected telephone call, an unexpected visitor or anything out of the ordinary.

    Ask any Iraqi what happened on a daily basis with Sadaam Hussein and his two sons. The story in Iraq to this day is of the absolute evil they were. They were said to end each day with a call to the Prison - the same prison that the current outrage has happened - to ask for a couple prisoners to be sent over.

    Sadaam, Uday and Qusay his two sons were said to have ended the day by torturing one or more prisoners while they drank and laughed.

    Many were the stories of those who simply disappeared never to come back again. Travel throught Iraq and look on the walls of just about every family for the telltale black and white pictures of one or more family members who died at the hands of Sadaam Hussein or in one of his `stupid` wars as they call them.

    My own cousin, a wonderful, sweet Assyrian Christian woman endured the unspeakable when she was sent to Prison to be abused not once or twice but for 15 years for the simple crime of refusing to sleep with one of Sadaams cronies.

    Another relative to this day with huge scars on his face and body where he was tortured over and over and over during the many years of imprisonment for simply saying he was an Assyrian and a Christian.

    While we must condemn in the strongest terms the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by US Troops, at the same time we must bring the discussion back to reality - a reality where as terrible as it is the action by US Troops it is Childs play in relationship to what occurred every single day under the terror regieme of Sadaam Hussein and occurs right now in `thug regimes` throughout the Middle East - the same people in many cases who are so loudly and vociferously attacking the crimes by US troops.

    With all its faults, the US has the honesty to admit she is wrong and as Condoleezza Rice did to apologize, say Sorry and do all it can to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

    While they rally against the unacceptable actions of the US troops, those in the middle east quietly and always in private admire a system where such misdeeds actually see the light of day, are apologized for and changes made.

    The silent majority while outwardly in the `politically correct` atmosphere in nearly every Middle East country will demonstrate against the abuse, quietly they express astonishment because they all know that the `thug rulers` do many times more horrible things to their fellow citizens on a daily basis.

    The question to ask is `When will those in other Middle Eastern nations who so loudly cry out against the American abuse be able to do the same for abuse in their own country?`

    The `thug rulers` of the Middle East and the poor, longsuffering people under their unfortunate rule are closely watching what happens in Iraq.

    Will the US stand up against `thug rule` or will she cave in, cut and run.

    As one who has been there, while so intimidated and in fear that they will never publicly acknowledge it, every Iraqi with the exception of the 20% who worked for Sadaam in some form or another hopes and prays that the US will cancel the June 30th handover and keep charge of the government until a secular, normal constitution can be written, free and fair elections held and a `normal` government in place.

    The `thugs` cry out for an American departure and Islamic rule for one very simply reason - they want to take turns with Sadaam Hussein and continue his rule of terror themselves.

    While the `thugs` will cry foul at a cancellation of the June 30 handover until a normal government can be in place, the `silent majority` of Iraqis will welcome it with relief and with the assurance of American control will slowly but surely begin to speak out and express what they really feel.

    `June is too soon` is the private rallying cry of the silent majority of Iraqis. Instead of caving in as they did in Fallujah, the US should make it clear that the future of Iraq and the Middle East is one in which government, as it has shown by example is accountable to its citizens and should use the terrible occurrence at Abu Ghalid prison to show how a free and open society based on the rule of law operates.

    Can good come out of the terrible things done against Iraqi prisoners? You bet! As one Iraqi told me the other day - we need the Americans to stay until we can have `normal government` again! We cannot have one group of thugs replace another one!`

    Will his prayer be answered? The occurrences at Abu Ghalid Prison and the response of the American People and its government have served as an example of how a free society works and done more to advance the cause o liberty than a hundred good deeds.

    It is precisely how a free society handles the tragic that shows its greatness!

    Rev. Ken Joseph Jr. directs www.Assyrianchristians.com and is currently completing a book on his experiences in Iraq entitled `I Was Wrong`.

    http://www.csamerican.com/linkFrame.asp?p=a&k=2543

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    • #3
      Exactly.

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      • #4
        Rev. Ken Joseph Jr is a fella I remember. He is one of the many that told us how the Iraqis would rally to the cause of their own freedom. Where are they? Hundreds of thousands have stepped forward, but there are tens of millions in Iraq, so where is the rest of the help? If the Iraqis don't stand up for themselves and fight for their own freedom against this greatly depleted enemy, then they are doomed to be slaves under whatever tyrant is in charge that day or what ever occupier that recently deposed said tyrant du jour.
        No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
        I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
        even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
        He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Confed999
          Rev. Ken Joseph Jr is a fella I remember. He is one of the many that told us how the Iraqis would rally to the cause of their own freedom. Where are they? Hundreds of thousands have stepped forward, but there are tens of millions in Iraq, so where is the rest of the help? If the Iraqis don't stand up for themselves and fight for their own freedom against this greatly depleted enemy, then they are doomed to be slaves under whatever tyrant is in charge that day or what ever occupier that recently deposed said tyrant du jour.
          As much as we would all like to believe otherwise, the fact is that, most people just done care. They do not care about politics or war or terrorism. Sure, they will give their opinion, but they don’t do anything about it. In the end, most people everywhere only care about themselves. It's true in America where 50% of people don't bother to exercise the right that so many have died for, to vote, and it is true in Iraq where people would rather stand on the side lines and wait for a winner to emerge before choosing a side. In the Inferno Dante called these people The Neutrals, and they suffered the worse punishment in the afterlife. What we need to remember is that the only way to gain these peoples support is to win. That must be our focus.

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          • #6
            The only difference between Saddam and Bush and Blair is that the US wanted to bring' Freedom, Democracy, Justice and Liberation' and bring civilised ways (not said in so many words but said in million words by implication) to a barbaric race.

            Abu Gharaib shows that they are all the same.

            However, there is one difference. While the Arabs have no qualms about being brutish and fundamantalists with all non Moslems being kaffirs and mistreating one and all, On the other hand the US claims to be civilised and is accepted by the world as such. Therefore, Abu Gharaib indicates that it is a hypocrisyto claim to be purer than the snow of Mount Etna and then behaving like Saddam!

            Notwithstanding, I am sure that the MPs of Abu Gharaib and elsewhere are not true representatives of the US culture and ethos.


            "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

            I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

            HAKUNA MATATA

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            • #7
              The majority of Iraqis are not there rooting for the US because the soldiers have been ham handed. That's for sure. Even Indians who were working for US Army (having been recruited from India thorugh dubious agencies) have fled back to India with horrifying tales. Note, compared to Indian standards, these Indians were being paid a princely sum and hence would not have fled otherwise.

              Further, if stories like being sodomised with chemical lights or women fondling them (and maybe men too) circulate they will feel all American soldiers are perverts and will not come anywhere near them except with an IED.
              Last edited by Ray; 09 May 04,, 20:05.


              "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

              I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

              HAKUNA MATATA

              Comment


              • #8
                http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...how/666056.cms


                "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                HAKUNA MATATA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ray, do you think all US troops in Iraq act like perverts and criminals?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ray
                    The only difference between Saddam and Bush and Blair is that the US wanted to bring' Freedom, Democracy, Justice and Liberation' and bring civilised ways (not said in so many words but said in million words by implication) to a barbaric race.

                    Abu Gharaib shows that they are all the same.

                    However, there is one difference. While the Arabs have no qualms about being brutish and fundamantalists with all non Moslems being kaffirs and mistreating one and all, On the other hand the US claims to be civilised and is accepted by the world as such. Therefore, Abu Gharaib indicates that it is a hypocrisyto claim to be purer than the snow of Mount Etna and then behaving like Saddam!

                    Notwithstanding, I am sure that the MPs of Abu Gharaib and elsewhere are not true representatives of the US culture and ethos.
                    You are taking one isolated incident and saying that this makes the Untied States and Britain worse then Saddam. Do we have to go over the list of Saddam’s crimes again. The man has killed millions of people, and they weren't just shot in the head either many of they were tortured to death. They were stuffed in medal boxes or had there tongues ripped and allowed to bleed to death or watched as there children and spouses were murdered. Compared to that these terrorist being made to prance around naked is nothing. Did any of Saddam's torturers ever face justice? No. Will every person that knew about these acts or even should have known be punished? Yes. This comparison is so off it should not even be made.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ray
                      The majority of Iraqis are not there rooting for the US because the soldiers have been ham handed.
                      No, they do not support the US because they are lazy. It is easier for them to sit and watch then to take an active role in fighting evil in there mist. They just want the fighting to be over as soon as possible so that they can fit themselves back in to the new system where they can know there roles.

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                      • #12
                        Imperial Western projects to bring civilisation to the East through a White Man's Burden have a typical unplanned side-effect
                        Is this what passes for journalism in India?

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                        • #13
                          Ray get over yourself, please. For the last few weeks you have mostly spouted off topic bull shit.

                          All you seem to contribute is smart ass comments about sticking light sticks up people's asses and the stupidity of Americans.

                          I beg of you to stop.
                          Last edited by Praxus; 09 May 04,, 21:48.

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                          • #14
                            Saddam Hussein is no yardstick for the US to to justify her actions. US went to Iraq to stop this maniac and instil Freedom and Democracy etc etc. Therefore, the US was on a high moral ground.

                            That has been shattered by the sadistic and perverted MPs.

                            The Iraqi prisoners did not 'prance around'. How could they with hoods on their heads? They were beaten and kicked and sodomised and raped.

                            It is not one incident. It is a series and just a tip of the iceberg. Rumsfeld himself admitted that there is more to come.

                            Am I to understand that anyone who does not agree with your views and doesn't join you are 'lazy'?

                            No, the link I gave would not be journalism per se. It did not have the approval of the US Senate or Fox News!
                            Last edited by Ray; 10 May 04,, 03:58.


                            "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                            I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                            HAKUNA MATATA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/

                              http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...ain/index.html

                              http://www.mirror.co.uk/

                              There are many more links including that from the Washinton Post and New Yorker that can be given but I think that is enough.

                              I am not a US baiter or hater. The US has always been a moral polestar so to say. These incidents have ruined the reputation. Instead of brushing thing under the carpet with semantics, hyperboles or excuses, it is time to face the facts like honourable men and kick these idiots who let the nation down. Let the world know that the US is not afraid to face up to the facts and even the highest of the high if need be will be taken to task. It may not erase the horrific memories, but it will put the US on the moral high ground that it has claimed.

                              It is pathetic to hear statements that 'they were only obeying orders'. This was the very defence of the Nazi Prisoner during the Nuremberg Trials after WW II. They were given life or were sentenced to death.

                              Praxus,

                              I don't rant about the stupidity of ALL American, but I sure do about the crass stupidity of SOME Americans, who because of their two minutes of pleasure have let down ALL HONEST CIVILISED Americans.

                              I may not agree with the rationale for the US to go to Iraq, but I am sure that Aemricans are not as brutish and mindless as Saddam. These incidents pain me more than possibly it pains you and the best part I am not an American, though I admire the US values (which unfortuantely are not representative at Abu Gharaib).

                              Also, I think it is an insult to US values to justify brutality just because Saddam was brutal. Saddam was a beast, but must we stoop so low as to compare our values with a beast?
                              Last edited by Ray; 10 May 04,, 04:31.


                              "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                              I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                              HAKUNA MATATA

                              Comment

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