The Fall of Great Britain

[Srirangan]

Quoting The shadow cast by a mega-mosque

When Abu Izzadeen, the firebrand Islamist militant, berated John Reid last week for daring to visit a Muslim area, the Home Secretary bridled, as did many others, at his suggestion that part of London was off limits for a British minister of the Crown.

The Queen's minister can't enter 'that part' of London. The Labor Govt and the people just keep pussyfooting the issue, media will always find a way to blame America and G.W. Bush. Britishers won't realize that their home is slipping right under their very noses.

Ironical. What goes around, comes around.

Back in 1947, Great Britain helped it 'happen' over here, now I won't be surprised if, over the next 1-2 decades, them immigrants "pull of a Pakistan" out there in the British Isless. It would be so very ironical, especially for people in my part of the world.

The English, Welsh and Scots still have time, let's hope they do wake up! Britain, France, Germany, Denmark etc.they're all falling. And sadly they lack the courage (the political incorrectness) to stand up, Inner America has it tho.

Let's see if Eurabia will happen. News and views please!

[PubFather]

[QUOTE=srirangan;271930]Quoting The shadow cast by a mega-mosque

The Queen's minister can't enter 'that part' of London.

Well he can lol. Just because a radical lunatic says he cant, doesnt make it fact.

The Labor Govt and the people just keep pussyfooting the issue, media will always find a way to blame America and G.W. Bush. Britishers won't realize that their home is slipping right under their very noses.

No it isnt. We can fall victim to press hyperbole or we can view things rationally. BTW, whose media does your link come from? Think about it...

Ironical. What goes around, comes around.

Back in 1947, Great Britain helped it 'happen' over here, now I won't be surprised if, over the next 1-2 decades, them immigrants "pull of a Pakistan" out there in the British Isless. It would be so very ironical, especially for people in my part of the world.

Mmmmm Free UK Pakistan? With every packet of crisps I suppose? Do you have grounds for this belief that 2.8% of the population will set a new Pakistan? What about a new Bangladesh as well? Or a new Somalia? A new India or Jamaica? What a minority of Muslims might "aspire" too is not reality.

The English, Welsh and Scots still have time, let's hope they do wake up! Britain, France, Germany, Denmark etc.they're all falling. And sadly they lack the courage (the political incorrectness) to stand up, Inner America has it tho.

What precisely would you recommed? Forced repatriation? Detention centres?

Immigration will be a hot potato in the UK in coming years (although mostly from a Polish/East European perspective.) It will not continue unchecked.
As for those already here, time will eventually alter things. We will have a difficult few years, maybe decades. We will get there.

Let's see if Eurabia will happen. News and views please!

Alarmist drivel..

[Srirangan]

Well he can lol. Just because a radical lunatic says he cant, doesnt make it fact.
...
Alarmist drivel..

It is funny now, isn't it? Almost impossible it may sound. Just wait for a few generations, demographics would then turn on its head. It has happened in the past, the same pattern follows.

What precisely would you recommed? Forced repatriation? Detention centres?

I'll talk really blunt.

1. Muslims don't integrate into the society of the host country. Atleast from what we have witnessed from 1300 years of history, they haven't, they won't.

2. Islam is not just a religion, it is a political movement masked as a religion. Atleast some "interpretations" are.

3. Muslim community growth rates (haven't checked but I can bet) would be one of the highest in U.K. without even counting new immigrants. You can verify this if you like.

The rest is simple math.

Mmmmm Free UK Pakistan? With every packet of crisps I suppose? Do you have grounds for this belief that 2.8% of the population will set a new Pakistan? What about a new Bangladesh as well? Or a new Somalia? A new India or Jamaica? What a minority of Muslims might "aspire" too is not reality.

Hmm.. they did "pull off a Pakistan" in Persia, Syria-Jordan, Afghnaistan, India, North Africa, Spain etc. etc. Currently they are doing so in Thailand, Phillipines, Sri Lanka, western China, Russia and countless other states.

And their book orders them to convert all the lands to Dar Ul Islam and doesn't hesitate recommending the use of the sword if required. Atleast, be vary. :-/

[PubFather]

It is funny now, isn't it? Almost impossible it may sound. Just wait for a few generations, demographics would then turn on its head. It has happened in the past, the same pattern follows.

Then we are talking enormous hypotheticals. We can predict almost anything can happen in a "few generations"... but utterly meaningless as an argument.

I'll talk really blunt.

1. Muslims don't integrate into the society of the host country. Atleast from what we have witnessed from 1300 years of history, they haven't, they won't.

There is no 1300 year parallel to Muslims integrating into a liberal democracy.

2. Islam is not just a religion, it is a political movement masked as a religion. Atleast some "interpretations" are.

Granted, but the same accusations could be levelled at certain Christian movements as well. The majority of Muslims are not political radicals.

3. Muslim community growth rates (haven't checked but I can bet) would be one of the highest in U.K. without even counting new immigrants. You can verify this if you like.

The rest is simple math.

You are correct. The simple math is that even at 3 times the population replacement rate (which Muslim birthrates are nowhere near) then it would take 100's of years for Muslims to even become a majority.
And that's assuming that the rate continues to remain steady, unlike the decline in population growth rate that every developed society has heretofore demonstrated.

Hmm.. they did "pull off a Pakistan" in Persia, Syria-Jordan, Afghnaistan, India, North Africa, Spain etc. etc. states.

If you refer to a "Muslim" state then you are correct. If you believe that this is a realistic parallel to the UK, you are mistaken.

And their book orders them to convert all the lands to Dar Ul Islam and doesn't hesitate recommending the use of the sword if required. Atleast, be vary. :-/

As does the Bible (apart from the sword part, not that that stopped us). We grew out of it. Hopefully Islam will as well. If not, then there will be a reckoning indeed....

[HistoricalDavid]

It is funny now, isn't it? Almost impossible it may sound. Just wait for a few generations, demographics would then turn on its head. It has happened in the past, the same pattern follows.

Where, within a 'few' generations, has this occured without massive immigration?

I'll talk really blunt.
...
The rest is simple math.

No, it is not. You gave a series of largely true premises. But he wants to know what is the course of action to do with them.

You said 'I'll talk really blunt?' - prove it. Doesn't have to be a mass of words. 'Forced repatriation', for instance is not very long.

Hmm.. they did "pull off a Pakistan" in Persia, Syria-Jordan, Afghnaistan, India, North Africa, Spain etc. etc. Currently they are doing so in Thailand, Phillipines, Sri Lanka, western China, Russia and countless other states.

Back in the age of Arab imperialism they were probably relatively much stronger. Today, they're outclassed in effective economic and military might by India, China, Europe and the United States, and they're semi-encircled by those.

And Muslims aren't the only ones with high birth rates, you know.

And their book orders them to convert all the lands to Dar Ul Islam and doesn't hesitate recommending the use of the sword if required. Atleast, be vary. :-/

'Wary' is not a synonym for 'alarmist'.

[PubFather]

'Wary' is not a synonym for 'alarmist'.

My point entirely... :)

[astralis]

srirangan,

1. Muslims don't integrate into the society of the host country. Atleast from what we have witnessed from 1300 years of history, they haven't, they won't.

they're doing pretty well in the US, and in china, they've been around for hundreds of years in all positions of society fairly peacefully.

[starsiege]

err not really, there are quite a lot of islamist radicals here in the us, and about china? have u forgotten that there are muslims groups waging terror attacks to claim western china as a islamic state?

its good to be politically correct, but too much of political correctness would blind us to the the real and pressent danger

[astralis]

starseige,

err not really, there are quite a lot of islamist radicals here in the us, and about china? have u forgotten that there are muslims groups waging terror attacks to claim western china as a islamic state?

its good to be politically correct, but too much of political correctness would blind us to the the real and pressent danger

sure, there might be radicals, but it's not unprecedented in an immigrant population. the irish had their radicals too- they went off and invaded canada. at least the muslims here, beyond your isolated hate crime, haven't pulled off any real attacks. there's no real feeling of isolation, unlike say in the case of france or england.

as for china, you're probably referring to xinjiang. the deal over xinjiang stretches all the way back to the mid-qing dynasty (nian rebellion). the various seperatist groups are split into so many nationalities, languages, and agendas- ranging from mere desire of freedom of religion to autonomy within china to seperate state to seperate islamic state (a relatively new idea stemming from the 80s) that it's hard to classify that as an "islamic" insurrection.

in other parts of china, though, they've been so integrated that it's no longer remarkable. as an example, chinese-muslim style restaurants are ubiquitous in china and on taiwan. (they're pretty darn good, too.)

[Srirangan]

You are correct. The simple math is that even at 3 times the population replacement rate (which Muslim birthrates are nowhere near) then it would take 100's of years for Muslims to even become a majority.

They don't need to become a majority. They just wait till the time they become a significant minority. Or a majority in a region. I believe already in British cities and towns, there a certain neighboorhoos where Muslims have settled and have become the majority? Ala suburbs of Paris.

It is almost like a tape repeating itself.

[lemontree]

they're doing pretty well in the US, and in china, they've been around for hundreds of years in all positions of society fairly peacefully.

When in minority yes, but with a little strength things change you will get cases like the British Home Secretary being insulted for 'daring to enter a muslim area', or riots in Paris.

In china they are under the steel boot. Have'nt you heard of the East Turkmainistan movement?

[Srirangan]

If you refer to a "Muslim" state then you are correct. If you believe that this is a realistic parallel to the UK, you are mistaken.

Absolutely. Not right now. But in 20-30 years? I wouldn't rule out a Muslim 'IRA'.

Now, I'm not wishing it would happen. Believe me. :)

Granted, but the same accusations could be levelled at certain Christian movements as well.

When was the last time a Minister was 'banned' from entering a 'Christian part' of London?

[Srirangan]

srirangan,



they're doing pretty well in the US, and in china, they've been around for hundreds of years in all positions of society fairly peacefully.

They are peaceful in China? Oh no they aren't. Read up or Uyghuiristan (or whatever they call it)

They haven't been peaceful anywhere they are significant in numbers. Forget Kashmir or Chechnya, let us talk Southern Thailand, Phillipines, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Somalia etc. etc.

[PubFather]

They don't need to become a majority. They just wait till the time they become a significant minority. Or a majority in a region. I believe already in British cities and towns, there a certain neighboorhoos where Muslims have settled and have become the majority? Ala suburbs of Paris.

It is almost like a tape repeating itself

You can draw misleading parallels if you want. It does not make them real.
I do find it unlikely (deeply) that certain streets will decide to secede from the UK. A ghetto with a city is entirely different from a region with a non-mainstream identity - i.e Scotland.

Absolutely. Not right now. But in 20-30 years? I wouldn't rule out a Muslim 'IRA'.
Now, I'm not wishing it would happen. Believe me.

A Muslim "IRA" is not what we were discussing. If you mean that there might be even greater Islamic terrorist activity within the UK, then you are almost certainly correct.

When was the last time a Minister was 'banned' from entering a 'Christian part' of London?

Again, a meaningless injunction from an isolated individual. I was told by a drunk once that a park in Glasgow was his and I couldnt go in. Does that mean a significant move by the homeless?

I am wary of Islam in the UK. It frequently makes me exceptionally angry and Islam is often its own worst enemy. However, excessively sensationalist responses only serve to highten tension. Why do you think this Muslim idiot made that statement? To get media coverage; to heighten tensions, to further fuel Islam's self-fulfilling "oppressed minority" complex. And therefore fill the ranks of jihadis further. This is the game that radical Islam plays - and by overreacting we allow them to play it more effectively.

[Srirangan]

You can draw misleading parallels if you want. It does not make them real.
I do find it unlikely (deeply) that certain streets will decide to secede from the UK. A ghetto with a city is entirely different from a region with a non-mainstream identity - i.e Scotland.

Sure, streets and ghetto's won't secede. Just wait till entire county's are of a Muslim majority. Just study the pattern all around the world, it is the same script playing. You can, however, live in denial. Your kids or their kids would have to deal with the issue.

However, excessively sensationalist responses only serve to highten tension. Why do you think this Muslim idiot made that statement? To get media coverage; to heighten tensions, to further fuel Islam's self-fulfilling "oppressed minority" complex.

I'm not suggesting a "kill all muslims" reaction. However there is a very real possibility that over the first half of the 21st century, the number of those drunk idiots will exponentially increase and might become a majority in certain parks of the Isles and Europe at large.