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  • #46
    Do you have any data to highlight the number of "vulnerable" children who have been converted?
    Has the number of christians increased w.r.t the county's population? N
    dont twist the argument ,all i said is there is always a constant ulterior motive to convert the students .....can u deny it ???? ....

    the main problem with missionaries is that they educate and enlighten the people about their rights, along with spreading the gospel
    exactly ,that makes them a potential target for RSS..if Missionaries have a arrogant feeling that they can " preach and enlighten " and ultimately "convert";) people,RSS too has the same kind of fanaticsm to prevent and protect the relgion it represents ....every body takes relgion serioulsy ,not just only christians

    when these rural people and adivasies refuse exploitation by the higher castes, there is a sudden threat felt by the land lords
    above are the lines which is the first step in the proseltyzing activites carried by missionsries ...exploitation and prevention --> get converted

    posted the manifest of Loreto Convent in this thread. Did you bother to read it? It clearly mentioned providing education based on christian principles. If an educated person like you can make a statement based on halfbaked information, imagine how idiotic the dingbats in BYJM are!
    here is the statament of Loreto convent
    Mission Statement:

    We wish to create a positive environment, based on Christian values, where our students have opportunities and encouragement to develop their full potential and gifts, - academic, social, creative and spiritual – within a global perspective.
    As a catholic school in the Loreto tradition, we aim to create a warm and caring community. In an atmosphere of respect and fairness, through support and friendship, we affirm each person's self-worth and dignity.
    read those words in red and those contradictory words in blue ....did they stand by their statement of "fairness and respect,dignity" ???? ...

    and,
    may i know how many illiterate parents have such a knowledge to understand those implied meaning of mission statements when they join their kids in such convents ????
    as i said the innocence and guiilblity is subtly exploited and a justification is provided in mission statement when ever things gets disclosed ......
    why can't those convents put in their name boards in simple,plain english or local language that their school is a an " evangelist catholic missionary school " like the madrassh of islamic institutions mark it explitctily to make their mission clear ????....will they do it ??no ,they wont ....


    so i sum up --as long as evangelist thinks that they can cajole ,preach,enlighten ,proseltize people to ultimately get converted ,so are the RSS goons who also thinks that it is their duty to stop all such proseltying activities .....
    what the loreto convent did was wrong by all means ,the reaction gave those RSS goons the much needed reason to target a education institution ....let the evangelist stop making education institutions as their preaching grounds and then blame RSS if they take the law in their hands .....

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by veera8 View Post
      dont twist the argument ,all i said is there is always a constant ulterior motive to convert the students .....can u deny it ???? ....
      Twist an argument?....you say you studied in a convent school and so have many of us here. How many of your schoolmates got converted in the time you spent in a convent school? None at all. I am just pointing out the hollowness of this "belief" that there is some evil game plan to convert children in schools.
      The nuns and priests will preach, that is their vocation, take it or leave it, the choice is yours. But no one has the right to kill/ maim them for preaching. The ISKON and other Hindu organisations are carrying out the same activities as the missionaries here.
      All I say is do unto others what you want done to you.
      exactly ,that makes them a potential target for RSS..if Missionaries have a arrogant feeling that they can " preach and enlighten " and ultimately "convert";) people,RSS too has the same kind of fanaticsm to prevent and protect the relgion it represents ....every body takes relgion serioulsy ,not just only christians
      So the RSS is happy and feel that hindu religion is saved as long as the adivasies are exploited and kept miserable. But if the missionary priest tells him not to work without wages or teaches that adivasi how to read and write his name then how does it become dangerous for the hindu faith?
      above are the lines which is the first step in the proseltyzing activites carried by missionsries ...exploitation and prevention --> get converted
      You say exploitation, I say education about human rights.



      here is the statament of Loreto convent
      Mission Statement:
      read those words in red and those contradictory words in blue ....did they stand by their statement of "fairness and respect,dignity" ???? ...
      Then please explain how is is contradictory. What is it about christian teaching that you find "unfair, unrespectful and undignified."?
      and,
      may i know how many illiterate parents have such a knowledge to understand those implied meaning of mission statements when they join their kids in such convents ????
      Is it required, it is they who come to the school and not the other way around.
      as i said the innocence and guiilblity is subtly exploited and a justification is provided in mission statement when ever things gets disclosed ......
      Really???...you sound as if you have been greatly wronged.
      why can't those convents put in their name boards in simple,plain english or local language that their school is a an " evangelist catholic missionary school " like the madrassh of islamic institutions mark it explitctily to make their mission clear ????....will they do it ??no ,they wont ....
      Don't even start comparing a madarsa with a convent school. The alumni of the former are synonumous with terrorism while the later produce people that India is proud off.
      so i sum up --as long as evangelist thinks that they can cajole ,preach,enlighten ,proseltize people to ultimately get converted ,so are the RSS goons who also thinks that it is their duty to stop all such proseltying activities .....
      Did christianity end after the romans executed and persecuted all christians?
      what the loreto convent did was wrong by all means ,the reaction gave those RSS goons the much needed reason to target a education institution ....let the evangelist stop making education institutions as their preaching grounds and then blame RSS if they take the law in their hands .....
      The RSS does need any excuse they, if you remember the Stains case. The husband wife team were doctors who treated lepers and had ran a mission hospital. Did Dr. Stains and his 2 boys deserve to die?
      Last edited by lemontree; 13 Sep 06,, 12:03.

      Cheers!...on the rocks!!

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by lemontree View Post
        Twist an argument?....you say you studied in a convent school and so have many of us here. How many of your schoolmates got converted in the time you spent in a convent school? None at all. I am just pointing out the hollowness of this "belief" that there is some evil game plan to convert children in schools.
        The nuns and priests will preach, that is their vocation, take it or leave it, the choice is yours. But no one has the right to kill/ maim them for preaching. The ISKON and other Hindu organisations are carrying out the same activities as the missionaries here.
        All I say is do unto others what you want done to you.

        So the RSS is happy and feel that hindu religion is saved as long as the adivasies are exploited and kept miserable. But if the missionary priest tells him not to work without wages or teaches that adivasi how to read and write his name then how does it become dangerous for the hindu faith?

        You say exploitation, I say education about human rights.



        here is the statament of Loreto convent
        Mission Statement:

        Then please explain how is is contradictory. What is it about christian teaching that you find "unfair, unrespectful and undignified."?

        Is it required, it is they who come to the school and not the other way around.

        Really???...you sound as if you have been greatly wronged.

        Don't even start comparing a madarsa with a convent school. The alumni of the former are synonumous with terrorism while the later produce people that India is proud off.

        Did christianity end after the romans executed and persecuted all christians?

        The RSS does need any excuse they, if you remember the Stains case. The husband wife team were doctors who treated lepers and had ran a mission hospital. Did Dr. Stains and his 2 boys deserve to die?

        The nuns and priests will preach, that is their vocation, take it or leave it, the choice is yours. But no one has the right to kill/ maim them for preaching.
        is it so , those evangelist nuns and fathers will throw slanderous remarks at hinduism calling it paganist,idolist,without central structure,followers railing in ignorance ..so and so ,but u expect hindus to be quiet and even have the audacity to say " take it or leave it " .....
        why dont u carry out such things in a hardcore islamic country like PAK and jsut see how they react ....is it like the soft going attitude of hindus being exploited to its maximum ....rememebr there is always a limit and if exceeds its endurance u can very well see the reaction .....

        The ISKON and other Hindu organisations are carrying out the same activities as the missionaries here.
        i can easily point out to thousands of harcore christain missionary organisations ....hinduism is not a proseltyzing relgion like christanity ....

        So the RSS is happy and feel that hindu religion is saved as long as the adivasies are exploited and kept miserable. But if the missionary priest tells him not to work without wages or teaches that adivasi how to read and write his name then how does it become dangerous for the hindu faith?
        You say exploitation, I say education about human rights.
        u talk as if hinduism oppress all the adivasis by denying human rights,education ,freedom of spirit e.t.c .....where did u first come up with this
        amazing concepts that christanity is the champion of human rights and education ???????
        this kind of attitude is what reeks up tension ....

        Then please explain how is is contradictory. What is it about christian teaching that you find "unfair, unrespectful and undignified."?
        the meaning of fairness :: to be even handed

        u think it was fair to stage a occult show in a school ,where some one all the sudden cries that christ ahs entered his body and he has got magical healing powers ----frightining all the students ( 8 to 12 ) ...u call this spritual training ????
        it is also funny to see christan missionaries whose used to mock at hindus for thier superstecious belives have themselves now ended up in such kind of occult shows

        Don't even start comparing a madarsa with a convent school. The alumni of the former are synonumous with terrorism while the later produce people that India is proud off.
        okay lemon tree, i make it very much Easy for u to understand ....let the loreto convent change its name board as

        LORETO CONVENT SCHOOL
        ( EVANGELIST CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN MISSIONARY SCHOOL)
        M.G Marg Lucknow(U.P) India


        that will visibly make the parents understand the intention of the school rather than meticulosly reading each and every word of the convents mission statements ......

        Did christianity end after the romans executed and persecuted all christians?
        did RSS existed throught the long history of hinduism ????? ....
        all these militant RSS,bajrangdal were a product of extremism shown by other relgions which tried to exploit hinduism ..never was extremism or miltant hindutuva an integral part of hinduism ..

        The RSS does need any excuse they, if you remember the Stains case. The husband wife team were doctors who treated lepers and had ran a mission hospital. Did Dr. Stains and his 2 boys deserve to die?
        well ,how about looking at both sides of coin ....i striclty condemn violence,but try analysing what prompted some people to commit such a horrible crime ..here is doctor stains hsitory

        http://www.hvk.org/specialrepo/wadhwa/Graham.html
        some excerpts from his life history ::
        Staines joined the Evangelical Missionary Society of Mayurbhanj (EMSM) and started his work in 1965.
        Besides his Involvement with Leprosy Home, Staines was also involved in missionary work. The missionary work of Staines has come to light from the various despatches sent by him to Australia, which is published in a newsletter 'Tidings'. Staines also used to take part in baptism ceremonies although he may not have necessarily carried out the baptism himself. Paul Murmu says that Staines attended baptism ceremonies and marriage ceremonies of Christian families whenever he was available. However, it is the despatches sent by Staines to Australia in the newsletter 'Tidings' that make it clear that Staines was also involved in active propagation of his religion apart from his social work.
        kindness towards leprosy patents is appreciated ,but strings attached to such affection and caring with a motive to convert as much people as possible was what went wrong .....


        Is it required, it is they who come to the school and not the other way around
        yes lemon tree,
        thats the cache, missionary schools can keep exploiting illietrate parents as long as u have the education system( be thankful to british) in christain hands ....time will cahnge very soon

        do u wanna know why punjab is peaceful and prosperous ::
        the reason being both hindus and sikhs doesnt ahve these kind of dirty intentions to proseltyzise their relgion ...."it is as simple as live and let live ".....
        but here when a missionary institution tries to convert a people ( naturally belittling other relgions) tension builds up ......as simple like action - reaction concepts ....
        so as long as evangelisnt , for that reason any one who thinks that they can exploit hinduism and convert people -be ready to also face the retaliation .....take it or leave it ....even we love our religion .....

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by lemontree View Post
          Raj you know that your statement is not true, a convent school is one that is run by the roman catholic priests/ nuns or by jesuits. Schools run by purely evangilical groups are not convents.
          None of my christian teachers ever spoke of religion except a nun in Mizoram, but then 95% of the class was christian. Never have non-christians been called pagans in the derogatory sense, by my teachers.
          BTW, the teacher who taught me the most about Indian religions was a christian teacher.

          No one is talking of school toppers, we speak of wholesome education.
          LT let me tell you some of the statements that were made by my english teacher during my 7th grade/class

          Kali is devil and praying to kali is as good as praying devil or 999.

          And there was one more senior teacher(administrator) during my 10th grade, this was the time during which the bible storoies were being shown on TV(sunday mornings 9:00Am on DD1 channel), she used to come by the class every monday and ask if we did see the serial on TV(our school was 99% non-christian)
          i could just go and fill may be 3-4 pages of my christian tecahers ways of promoting christianity in school.(considering the fact that the christian teachers constituted only 40% of the teaching staff and majority were Hindus, the School was run by a Church)



          P.S: I was not talking about School toppers, but toppers in state wide run exams, the Board exams.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by veera8 View Post
            TRONIC,



            i still stand in my point ::: dissemination of knowledge should come without any ulterior motives ...but is that happening in convent ???No,they play the cards of education as a advantage and behind the scene they always look for the vulnerable students as potential targets to get converted to christianity ....so i say """ those "convents" bring shame to education""

            here is an open challenge ,let all the convent schools publish their evangelist decalration in big bold statements in their advertaisment and name boards so that even a semi illetrate parent will clearly understand that proseltyzing will be inherant along with the education ,let us see how many students will flock to get that kind of " superior education "
            iam damn sure no convent will do that b'cose they knew such a statement will enlighten those gullible parents so that they will understand the dirty motives of those institution and will not sent their kids to those convents
            they cant do that thing in open, as the INDIAN constitution prohibits recognizing any institution which openly says its sole aim is conversions of other religion practitioners to their religion, and with out recognision from govt a school cannot function as they need to be recognized in order for them to conduct the state/central board exams.

            Comment


            • #51
              Why are there conversions?

              Why do people change jobs?

              The answer is very simple in both cases.

              Because the other religion/ company is giving a better deal than what one is getting presently.

              Christianity gives opportunity to better education (schools), better health (hospital) care etc etc and that too free or at very nominal rates.

              In today's irreligious (except for Islam) world, who cares about religion? Yes, who cares? But everyone cares about their own fight for existence and in this fight, whoever helps one to surmount his daily worries wins!

              Now, if any religion wants to prevent conversion, it better offer a better and more attractive package for the individuals!

              QED.

              Rural folks and tribal convert because they are getting a better deal. If someone feels it is incorrect, please don't hesitate in giving them a deal which is even better.

              Therefore, the grouse is misplaced.

              Lemontree,

              I am afraid planchette and black magic is not "Christian principles". And Jesus entering into an idiot's body is one of the most unchristian like stuff I have ever heard and I have gone through the route of being a Christian, though not as a Catholic, so nothing is unknown to me in this realm. Indeed, today itself I attend a Service in my school chapel.

              It is disservice to Christianity if one states planchettes and black magic is Christian like.

              The second coming of Jesus is still to take place.

              It is Christian who are working hard to stop these magic shows of people being seized by spirits and ghosts. Remember, how Satya Sai Baba "miracles" was exposed by the Christian from Sri Lanka.

              Ganesh drinking milk and Jesus entering the body of a man are the same type of Blind Faith that fools the gullible!


              "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

              I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

              HAKUNA MATATA

              Comment


              • #52
                holy shux... where do I start???

                Originally posted by Archer
                I remember with what respect "sisters and fathers" used to be treated with earlier (and still are for the most part), thanks to their identification with selfless public service/ education (go to any hospital and the "sister" is usually a malayalee christian), but now thanks to externally funded proselytisation & dime a dozen conversion shops, reports, controversy over the same, people have become far more cynical. Its a bloody shame. I know for a fact that several local Indian christian orgs are against such attempts to convert, but they cannot reign in the newer orgs or the more enthu evangelical ones, and thats creating communal conflict.
                This has occurred from quite some time, leading even Gandhiji to comment upon it & identifying the problems. But lets not digress.

                Govt doesnt bend down to anyone. It just does nothing. It did nothing when mass conversions in MP/ Bihar tribal areas took place, sometimes quite unethically. It did nothing when communal problems arose (apart from usual lathi charge). It did/ does nothing when the pendulum is swinging the otherway. Eitherways people and inter community relations suffer.
                listen... I have never heard anyone in India forced to convert... If you're saying that Convent schools spread enlightened ideas which make it desirable for the normal people to convert to Christianity, what the heck is wrong with that??? The people have a right to choose which religion they wish to belong to... and no one can take that right away from the, especially in India.... now, Having people forcefully convert you.... that I have never heard or seen Convent schools carrying out... if you think that enlightened ideas spread by the missionaries are a threat then so be it... that still doesn't give the RSS any right to determine an individuals religion...

                By all means they should be allowed to preach Christianity, but religious activities should be for the Christian kids, and what other kids get should be upto their parents to determine. Like LT said, a good school would probably have moral science or something secular for its other kids (who'd probably enjoy the free time, lol).
                well... Why shouldn't they preach Christianity to non-Christian kids??? Its their own schools based on Christian values funded by their own money; heck, if you don't want your children to be exposed to Christian values, then don't send them to Christian schools!!!


                However, attempts to privately proselytise amongst children should not be acceptable. Schools are meant for education, not for proselytisation. Keep impressionable children away from such attempts & you will avoid the backlash from adults.
                backlash from adults??? there was no backlash or protests from anybody... it was just a bloody storming of the school by goons.... If the parents were so concerned then they could've protested themselves... but anyways, it is still wrong to demand that schools of a certain religion stop preaching their own religion because now you have your kids enrolled into it.... thats just plain selfish...

                Originally posted by veera8
                exactly ,that makes them a potential target for RSS..if Missionaries have a arrogant feeling that they can " preach and enlighten " and ultimately "convert" people,RSS too has the same kind of fanaticsm to prevent and protect the relgion it represents ....every body takes relgion serioulsy ,not just only christians
                wtf... so you're saying that Hindus don't have faith in their own religion so if a missionary says a few words, the Hindus convert??? and the RSS has to protect them??? holy crud... reminds me of another organization... Taliban!!!


                Originally posted by veera8
                read those words in red and those contradictory words in blue ....did they stand by their statement of "fairness and respect,dignity" ???? ...
                wth??? are you trying to say that fairness and respect, dignity is not part of Christian values???

                Originally posted by veera8
                is it so , those evangelist nuns and fathers will throw slanderous remarks at hinduism calling it paganist,idolist,without central structure,followers railing in ignorance ..so and so ,but u expect hindus to be quiet and even have the audacity to say " take it or leave it " .....
                holy sh!t... You have no frikkin proof of that... my entire life I have studied in convent schools and not a single person had a attitude like that...

                why dont u carry out such things in a hardcore islamic country like PAK and jsut see how they react ....is it like the soft going attitude of hindus being exploited to its maximum ....rememebr there is always a limit and if exceeds its endurance u can very well see the reaction .....
                errmm... Pakistan is an Islamic Republic... So does that mean in your eyes, India is a Hindu Republic??? because if so, then you have just justified the creation of a Sikh Republic, Budhist Republic and a Christian Republic...

                u talk as if hinduism oppress all the adivasis by denying human rights,education ,freedom of spirit e.t.c .....where did u first come up with this
                amazing concepts that christanity is the champion of human rights and education ???????
                this kind of attitude is what reeks up tension ....
                LT never said anything about Christianity being the champion of Human Rights...

                I say this to you... do you ever hear Christian fanatic groups protesting against what is taught in Hindu religious schools??? more specifically, RSS Hindu schools??? no.... but then why is RSS protesting at what is taught in Christian schools??? which btw I think is a false cry; and its quite ironical that RSS is afraid that a religion which constitutes 2% of the entire country is a threat to a religion which constitutes 80% of the country...

                LORETO CONVENT SCHOOL
                ( EVANGELIST CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN MISSIONARY SCHOOL)
                M.G Marg Lucknow(U.P) India

                that will visibly make the parents understand the intention of the school rather than meticulosly reading each and every word of the convents mission statements ......
                errrmmm... I think Convent School already gives out the identity of a school as a Christian school...


                do u wanna know why punjab is peaceful and prosperous ::
                the reason being both hindus and sikhs doesnt ahve these kind of dirty intentions to proseltyzise their relgion ...."it is as simple as live and let live ".....
                but here when a missionary institution tries to convert a people ( naturally belittling other relgions) tension builds up ......as simple like action - reaction concepts ....
                so as long as evangelisnt , for that reason any one who thinks that they can exploit hinduism and convert people -be ready to also face the retaliation .....take it or leave it ....even we love our religion .....
                listen... I'm a Sikh and if one day I find the concept of Christianity much more interesting and want to convert; Khalistani Sikhs would be justified to attack Christian places???
                Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Ray View Post
                  Why are there conversions?

                  Why do people change jobs?

                  The answer is very simple in both cases.

                  Because the other religion/ company is giving a better deal than what one is getting presently.

                  Christianity gives opportunity to better education (schools), better health (hospital) care etc etc and that too free or at very nominal rates.

                  In today's irreligious (except for Islam) world, who cares about religion? Yes, who cares? But everyone cares about their own fight for existence and in this fight, whoever helps one to surmount his daily worries wins!

                  Now, if any religion wants to prevent conversion, it better offer a better and more attractive package for the individuals!

                  QED.

                  Rural folks and tribal convert because they are getting a better deal. If someone feels it is incorrect, please don't hesitate in giving them a deal which is even better.

                  Therefore, the grouse is misplaced.
                  I will tell you this, there are plenty of people who take Sikhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Budhism, Islam and other religions very seriously... to them converting is not like just another career change... Religion is their connection with god... to us that might be so, but you cannot assume that it is true for every person....

                  Lemontree,

                  I am afraid planchette and black magic is not "Christian principles". And Jesus entering into an idiot's body is one of the most unchristian like stuff I have ever heard and I have gone through the route of being a Christian, though not as a Catholic, so nothing is unknown to me in this realm. Indeed, today itself I attend a Service in my school chapel.

                  It is disservice to Christianity if one states planchettes and black magic is Christian like.

                  The second coming of Jesus is still to take place.

                  It is Christian who are working hard to stop these magic shows of people being seized by spirits and ghosts. Remember, how Satya Sai Baba "miracles" was exposed by the Christian from Sri Lanka.

                  Ganesh drinking milk and Jesus entering the body of a man are the same type of Blind Faith that fools the gullible!
                  I totally agree with you... but just because we think like that does not mean the entire world thinks along the same lines....
                  Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                  -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by raj View Post
                    they cant do that thing in open, as the INDIAN constitution prohibits recognizing any institution which openly says its sole aim is conversions of other religion practitioners to their religion, and with out recognision from govt a school cannot function as they need to be recognized in order for them to conduct the state/central board exams.
                    errrmmm... thousands (if not millions) of kids go to Convent schools and come out the same religion they went in....
                    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by veera8 View Post
                      is it so , those evangelist nuns and fathers will throw slanderous remarks at hinduism calling it paganist,idolist,without central structure,followers railing in ignorance ..so and so ,but u expect hindus to be quiet and even have the audacity to say " take it or leave it " .....
                      why dont u carry out such things in a hardcore islamic country like PAK and jsut see how they react ....is it like the soft going attitude of hindus being exploited to its maximum ....rememebr there is always a limit and if exceeds its en. Hindudurance u can very well see the reaction .....
                      At the outset, I make it clear that I have no religion, though I have gone through the route!

                      It is for this reason of irrelevant strife over something that is believed because we are taught to believe it that I find religious stuff contradictory. Love and Humanity preached and war and strife manifested because of religion! Very abhorring!

                      The padres and nuns are not technically wrong. Hinduism does have idolatry, but then there is an explanation for it. One cannot pray into empty space. One requires an icon to focus the inner strength to give the outer strength. All religion contributes to idolatry. Hinduism through its multi God pantheon, Christianity through the Statues of Virgin Mary and Jesus (Catholic) others through the Cross, Islam including wahhabis through the Kaaba and other Islamic sects through the Kaaba and the graves of their Saints or even religious festivals as Shab e Barat i.e. praying at the graves of their forefathers etc.

                      So, one practices what one does not preach!


                      i can easily point out to thousands of harcore christain missionary organisations ....hinduism is not a proseltyzing relgion like christanity ....
                      If Hinduism is not a proselytising religion, surely it is not the fault of Christianity, or is it?

                      Yes, there are many Christian organisations. It is not the question of Faith. It is a question of MONEY.


                      u talk as if hinduism oppress all the adivasis by denying human rights,education ,freedom of spirit e.t.c .....where did u first come up with this
                      amazing concepts that christanity is the champion of human rights and education ???????
                      this kind of attitude is what reeks up tension ....
                      Hinduism does not oppress the tribal or Adivasi.

                      It neither uplifts the lot of the tribal and the Adivasi.

                      Christianity does.

                      That is the difference.

                      No one has stopped Hindu organisation to get their act together.

                      the meaning of fairness :: to be even handed

                      u think it was fair to stage a occult show in a school ,where some one all the sudden cries that christ ahs entered his body and he has got magical healing powers ----frightining all the students ( 8 to 12 ) ...u call this spritual training ????
                      it is also funny to see christan missionaries whose used to mock at hindus for thier superstecious belives have themselves now ended up in such kind of occult shows
                      I totally agree with you. 100%.

                      They have brought a cloud on the religion and now the Cross has to be borne ever time there is an uproar!

                      They have brought disgrace to Christian principles since they have indulged in black magic.

                      okay lemon tree, i make it very much Easy for u to understand ....let the loreto convent change its name board as

                      LORETO CONVENT SCHOOL
                      ( EVANGELIST CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN MISSIONARY SCHOOL)
                      M.G Marg Lucknow(U.P) India


                      that will visibly make the parents understand the intention of the school rather than meticulosly reading each and every word of the convents mission statements ......
                      That is being unfair to the religion of Christianity per se.

                      The Principal and Father Sebastian (a rat, if you ask me) have let the religion down. Metaphorically speaking, they should be horsewhipped. Ex communication (or fatwa in Islam) was there in Medieval days. Nowadays, it has been junked or else, they deserve to be excommunicated, but then such archaic nonsense is not there any more in Christians.

                      did RSS existed throught the long history of hinduism ????? ....
                      all these militant RSS,bajrangdal were a product of extremism shown by other relgions which tried to exploit hinduism ..never was extremism or miltant hindutuva an integral part of hinduism ..


                      well ,how about looking at both sides of coin ....i striclty condemn violence,but try analysing what prompted some people to commit such a horrible crime ..here is doctor stains hsitory

                      http://www.hvk.org/specialrepo/wadhwa/Graham.html
                      some excerpts from his life history ::
                      No.

                      They have found their voice because of the stupidity of people like the Principal and Father Sebastian who have sold the religion into the gutter.

                      kindness towards leprosy patents is appreciated ,but strings attached to such affection and caring with a motive to convert as much people as possible was what went wrong .....



                      yes lemon tree,
                      thats the cache, missionary schools can keep exploiting illietrate parents as long as u have the education system( be thankful to british) in christain hands ....time will cahnge very soon

                      do u wanna know why punjab is peaceful and prosperous ::
                      the reason being both hindus and sikhs doesnt ahve these kind of dirty intentions to proseltyzise their relgion ...."it is as simple as live and let live ".....
                      but here when a missionary institution tries to convert a people ( naturally belittling other relgions) tension builds up ......as simple like action - reaction concepts ....
                      so as long as evangelisnt , for that reason any one who thinks that they can exploit hinduism and convert people -be ready to also face the retaliation .....take it or leave it ....even we love our religion .....
                      Illiterates are exploited by all.

                      Give something new.

                      Please. let the Hindus not convert. But if the Christians give a better deal (it is a world of deals these days), why complain?

                      Vandalising a school is not the answer.

                      Nothing has happened to the culprits i.e. Principal and Father Sebastian. I bet they are having a jolly good tuck in at the expense of the Church coffers.

                      The children who study are suffering.

                      Take those who are the culprits to court, please.

                      Don't condemn the religion since it is not that in every Christian school they are indulging in shenanigans!
                      Last edited by Ray; 13 Sep 06,, 17:50.


                      "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                      I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                      HAKUNA MATATA

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Tronic,

                        Very few convert out of conviction.

                        It sounds good, but then it is not true.

                        A large majority convert because of a better deal.

                        I love to chat wth people whereever I go and in my career I have visited many a rural area while on exercise. I did not merely look at things then from the Army standpoint. I love meeting people and see how they tick.

                        Connection with God.

                        I love that.

                        Connect and then do evil things like jihad, lies, stealing, vandalising, having Gods enter your bodies, have Gods drink milk!

                        Indeed!

                        Placebo for the troubled soul at best.
                        Last edited by Ray; 13 Sep 06,, 18:13.


                        "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                        I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                        HAKUNA MATATA

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Ray View Post
                          Why are there conversions?

                          Why do people change jobs?

                          The answer is very simple in both cases.

                          Because the other religion/ company is giving a better deal than what one is getting presently.

                          Christianity gives opportunity to better education (schools), better health (hospital) care etc etc and that too free or at very nominal rates.

                          In today's irreligious (except for Islam) world, who cares about religion? Yes, who cares? But everyone cares about their own fight for existence and in this fight, whoever helps one to surmount his daily worries wins!

                          Now, if any religion wants to prevent conversion, it better offer a better and more attractive package for the individuals!

                          QED.

                          Rural folks and tribal convert because they are getting a better deal. If someone feels it is incorrect, please don't hesitate in giving them a deal which is even better.

                          Therefore, the grouse is misplaced.

                          Lemontree,

                          I am afraid planchette and black magic is not "Christian principles". And Jesus entering into an idiot's body is one of the most unchristian like stuff I have ever heard and I have gone through the route of being a Christian, though not as a Catholic, so nothing is unknown to me in this realm. Indeed, today itself I attend a Service in my school chapel.

                          It is disservice to Christianity if one states planchettes and black magic is Christian like.

                          The second coming of Jesus is still to take place.

                          It is Christian who are working hard to stop these magic shows of people being seized by spirits and ghosts. Remember, how Satya Sai Baba "miracles" was exposed by the Christian from Sri Lanka.

                          Ganesh drinking milk and Jesus entering the body of a man are the same type of Blind Faith that fools the gullible!

                          Ray sir,if i rememeber correctly one of the 10 commendements is "Love Thy neighbour". i donot think it says love him only if he is a christian or willing to convert into christianity

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Love thy neighbour does not say one has to be a Christian.

                            It is a Christian value nonetheless and everyone can follow it, be he a Christian or a pagan or heathen.

                            I personally try to follow them, but I cannot say I succeed 100%.

                            But still I try.

                            I am not perfect.

                            One doesn't have to be a Christian to be good. Just be honest to your conscience.

                            Your conscience is your God.


                            "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                            I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                            HAKUNA MATATA

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Ray View Post
                              Tronic,

                              Very few convert out of conviction.

                              It sounds good, but then it is not true.

                              A large majority convert because of a better deal.

                              I love to chat wth people whereever I go and in my career I have visited many a rural area while on exercise. I did not merely look at things then from the Army standpoint. I love meeting people and see how they tick.

                              Connection with God.

                              I love that.

                              Connect and then do evil things like jihad, lies, stealing, vandalising, having Gods enter your bodies, have Gods drink milk!

                              Indeed!

                              Placebo for the troubled soul at best.
                              yeah, I agree with your point... but what i'm saying is, for whatever reason they convert, it all comes down to their own choice. I don't think they are forcefully baptised now are they???
                              Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                              -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Ray View Post
                                Illiterates are exploited by all.

                                Give something new.

                                Please. let the Hindus not convert. But if the Christians give a better deal (it is a world of deals these days), why complain?

                                Vandalising a school is not the answer.

                                Nothing has happened to the culprits i.e. Principal and Father Sebastian. I bet they are having a jolly good tuck in at the expense of the Church coffers.

                                The children who study are suffering.

                                Take those who are the culprits to court, please.

                                Don't condemn the religion since it is not that in every Christian school they are indulging in shenanigans!
                                yes, if Principal and Father Sebastian is wrong, then he should be punished for sure... infact, he can be unmasked by our media, something like what our media(started by Aaj Tak) did to the politicians taking bribes... but the difference is, we both know that if they did this to some father or other equaivalent ranked priest of any religion... the RSS backlash again would be that Convent schools would become primary RSS targets.... just by unmasking one such principal, the RSS would use it as an excuse that ALL convents are evil and start their attacks on them all.... it has been done before by these goons.... and besides, these people who vandalized the school are already back in the streets.... Sure Sebastian might be a culprit but the other culprits, the vandalizers that were caught are back on the streets... so I think justice should serve all, not just the RSS...

                                and btw, it is quite interesting how the RSS acts on issues such as these but where were they and their "young angry youth representing the people" when the politicians were caught??? where was the backlash then???
                                Last edited by Tronic; 13 Sep 06,, 20:43.
                                Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                                -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                                Comment

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