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How much of this so called "fact" are true?

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  • How much of this so called "fact" are true?

    Take the poll at this link

    http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi/museum1.cgi

    It asks you questions regarding the communist history.

    I do not believe the figures pointed out by the historians. Like the good Colonel said, where are the mass graves?

    We are talking about Siberia where it is damn hard to dig out a frozen ground and bury them. Nobody in their right or crazy mind will burn precious wood to cremate the human bodies. So, I ask, where are the graves? where are the skeletons?

    Did the historians ever account for the fact that there may be a strain of influenza going around Russia too? IIRC, the death toll of influenza included all the countries except Soviet and other communist countries. Big surprise there.

    Don't mistake me on this one. I totally despise communism because of the way it allows a very corrupt group of few people to easily take over the country and impose their evil ways on the masses. I do not like the idea of the "I" being destroyed in the name of "We". Individuality is very important.

    But what I also despise is the gross distortion of truth. Hey I know that Communists are very notorious at this but that is no reason to emulate them on this point.

    Little propoganda is ok but too much is very bad.

  • #2
    IIRC, most people that died under Stalin's rule were not executed, they died as a result of state-orchestrated food shortages.

    They would have likely been buried by their families.
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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    • #3
      And you have to remember the death rates or mortality rates during the communism rule and the preceding years before communism rule.

      Did the mortality rate escalate or decline?

      What kind of measuring stick are we using to count the deaths? Are we counting the deaths due to disease, plagues, acts of God. etc? Remember there was a civil war going on before the Communists took over. Did they include the death toll of the civil war into the Communist rule?

      If we are gonna use the measuring stick on them, we have to use them on ourselves and compare the death rates and tolls. This is not a one way street. It is a two way street.

      Comment


      • #4
        Finding skeletons in Siberia ain't hard. In fact all too easy. They were left to rot in the open. However, the problem is distinquishing who did what to whom. Siberia was the home of the Golden Horde, one of the richest Mongol Khanates before Tammerlane massacred the Horde.

        Stalin's bodies was merely the latest addition. One thing that we can be sure of. 80% of the Chechen population was deported to Siberia. We have the rail records. 20% came back. We have those rail records also.

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        • #5
          But what about the figures given? How can we be sure that they are not exxagerrated?

          Have they done any soil testing to see for any telltale marks of graves or bodies rotting due to the pH of the soil being influenced by the rotting of human bodies?

          How do you estimate the numbers in a mass grave?

          What are the signs? scientific information?

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          • #6
            The proper thing to do is to dig up every body and rebury them with proper dignity. Other than that, you dig up two to four graves and estimate from there.

            By vis-a-vi Stalin and Siberia. The estimates were based upon travel orders. Who gone to Siberia and who didn't come back.

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            • #7
              The Volga Germans were another people deported to Siberia during Stalin's rule. They had been invited by Catherine the Great (herself a German princess) to settle and make productive the Russian plains in the 18th century.

              I think they numbered about half a million, no idea how many made it back. There are still quite a few in Kazahkstan, that much I know.
              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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              • #8
                You have to remember at the turn of the 19th century, russia had over 350 million people, now they only have 140 million and still in decline.

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                • #9
                  Russia had 350mil people? Where did you get that?

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                  • #10
                    Yeah, Russia never had 350 milllion people. In 1991 the Soviet Union had about 280 million, it broke up, Russia had 140 million and all the other SSR's had 140 million.
                    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                    • #11
                      Actually the Soviet Union had extremely low amounts of children into the end of the union. If I was at home I could post the figures. Sorry I am at work. Socially women in the Soviet Union became so desensitized to what woman were supposed to be, that motherhood became almost frowned upon, by the women themselves. This is verry curious indeed considering the fact that Russia had always been a verry family oriented country. According to the articles I have read and the lectures I have sat in on, the government was in a nearly panic situation because the long terms projections for child births left them with serious economic questions for the future. Unfortunately I dont have the info with me right now, However I would say that there is more than underlying factor for any one problem in the current CIS. IMHO
                      "Now we shall have ourselves a pell mell battle!" ......The Immortal Memory, Admiral Nelson

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                      • #12
                        Heh, I remember reading an article about how in the late 1980's the Bulgarian government was lauding the fact that the 9 millionth Bulgarian would soon be born. Of course, Bulgaria's population has since plummetted to 7.5 million. Bulgaria is one of the few countries in which abortions outnumber births annually.
                        "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No believe me Russia did have 350 million people but you have to remember that during WWI almost 20 million russians were killed then during the 1930's Stalin cleansed over 20 to maybe 30 million russians. Then during WWII the russians were losing 5 million men a year. In the last battle in europe, in berlin alone the russians lost 500,000 men.

                          So you can pretty much see how the russians have always used their population in wars until afghanistan.

                          Now though their population declines 1% each year.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            During the age of the Internet, you should have absolutely no excuse for not posting real numbers instead of this crap. You have absolutely no idea on how or why the Soviets burned men and material the way they did.

                            And the Red Army only lost 320,000 in Berlin alone. The 650,000 number came from the drive from the Volga to Berlin.

                            Kid, you're in a forum with military experts and some who wore the uniform. At least be sure of your facts before. At least have the courtesy to ask.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Anvilanthony
                              No believe me Russia did have 350 million people but you have to remember that during WWI almost 20 million russians were killed then during the 1930's Stalin cleansed over 20 to maybe 30 million russians. Then during WWII the russians were losing 5 million men a year. In the last battle in europe, in berlin alone the russians lost 500,000 men.

                              So you can pretty much see how the russians have always used their population in wars until afghanistan.

                              Now though their population declines 1% each year.
                              Demographics of the Soviet Union
                              January 1897 (Russia): 125,006,000
                              December 1926 : 147,000,000 / 167,676,000
                              1937: 162,000,000 - 164,000,000
                              January 1939: 162,000,000 - 193,077,000
                              End-year 1950: 181,760,000
                              January 1959: 208,827,000
                              January 1970: 241,720,000
                              1985: 272,000,000
                              July 1991: 293,047,571


                              THE Union of Soviet Socialist Republics occupies the largest territory of any country in the world, with the exception of the British Empire and all dependencies, the land area is 8,144,228 square miles (21,352,572 square kilometers). The land area of continental United States is less than 3,000,000 square miles.

                              The population of the U.S.S.R., as of January I, 1928, according to the estimate of the Central Statistical Board, was 149,900,000. According to the census of 1926-27 it was 147,013,600 at the beginning of 1927. In 1914 the population of the same territory was 138,200,000.

                              Under the census of 1926-27 the population included 71,024,300 men and 75,989,300 women.

                              The density of population of the U.S.S.R., under the figures of the census of 1926-27, is 18.1 persons per square mile.

                              Owing to transfers of heavily populated territories to Poland, Finland and the border states at the close of the World War, the present territory of the Soviet Union is 93 per cent of that of the Tsarist Empire; the population is 82 per cent of that of the former Empire.
                              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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