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Discovery vid: Iowas greatest warships ever

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  • #46
    Originally posted by M21Sniper View Post
    And if it is really your view that the A-10, Hind, and Iowa are anything but highly succesful designs,
    I said they were unproven concepts.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by RAL's_pal? View Post
      I used to stop by the OSHA building a lot on the way back to the shop, and in Code 106.3 they produced a list of Long Beach homeported ships that took place in those operations and the results of the radiation tests that were done on them. I wish I would have made a copy of the paperwork.
      None of the TARGET ships (withing the periphery of the atoll) were ever brought back to Long Beach. Some went to San Francisco and some went to Bremerton.

      The only ships from the tests that returned to "normal" duties at Long Beach were the monitoring ships well outside (and UPwind) of the Lagoon.

      Same thing with WigWam. Only two ships were downwind of the underwater test and (supposedly) heavily shielded. The fireball never broke surface but those two ships never returned to Long Beach either. Considering the test was only 540 miles Southwest of San Diego, I hope the wind was blowing that direction on that day.

      But the reports you saw may have been a compilation of ALL ships including both monitoring and target ships. That would make interesting reading. The reports I was permitted to read were based only on monitoring ships that came back to Long Beach as the Navy had to do radiation testing of the Shipyard before turning it over to the city.
      Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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      • #48
        If it wasn't for Shipwreck

        I'd be making a lot more post.

        He and I seem to be on the same wavelength. But he does have better references.

        I also decided that, no matter how many official references and eyewitnesse reports that disprove some of the BB myths. Certain people would rather believe the Ted Y, Stearman and Sparks "Facts". On BBs, F-18s and A-10s.
        So why waste time posting.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
          None of the TARGET ships (withing the periphery of the atoll) were ever brought back to Long Beach. Some went to San Francisco and some went to Bremerton.

          The only ships from the tests that returned to "normal" duties at Long Beach were the monitoring ships well outside (and UPwind) of the Lagoon.
          Dickie, Dickie, Dickie. I wrote "Homeported" ships. When is a target ship considered a "Homeported" ship? Decom, targets etc; are stored, moored, tied up, but I've never heard "Homeported."

          If no target ship was ever brought back to Long Beach, explain the Salt Lake City?
          Last edited by Ytlas; 10 Sep 06,, 22:38.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by RAL's_pal? View Post
            If no target ship was ever brought back to Long Beack, explain the Salt Lake City?
            I have no record of Salt Lake City coming into Long Beach and the records shown in the list we were given during the RAB meetings of radiation inspections did not list her as being berthed here.

            But don't ask me to dig them up now just for the sake of friendly debate. I'm just popping in and out of this board for a little mental relaxation while trying to think of how to word the next section of my report on my Iowa inspection.
            Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
              I have no record of Salt Lake City coming into Long Beach and the records shown in the list we were given during the RAB meetings of radiation inspections did not list her as being berthed here.

              Ok, remember that picture of the Salt Lake City I just sent you? It's missing the funnels and the aft mast is bent. Since the picture of the Salt Lake City is dated May 5, 1948 and it was sunk as a target 20 days later I'd say that your RAB paperwork has mistakes. As a technicality, it apparently wasn't "berthed" at Long Beach, but rather, "moored." Remember, "A picture is worth a thousand words...."
              Last edited by Ytlas; 10 Sep 06,, 22:59.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Shipwreck View Post
                The Iowas NEVER sufffered from alignment problems, as Dahlgren found out when they investigated the issue back in the 1980s...
                So I guess the other experts who can attest to the alignment problem are wrong? Remember your contradicting the opinons of the likes of M.J.Whitley and others, well respected warship experts.
                Last edited by smilingassassin; 11 Sep 06,, 01:39.
                Facts to a liberal is like Kryptonite to Superman.

                -- Larry Elder

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by smilingassassin View Post
                  So I guess the other experts who can attest to the alignment problem are wrong? Remember your contradicting the opinons of the likes of M.J.Whitley and others, well respected warship experts.
                  Whitney and John Campbell both referenced Norman Friedman in their books concerning that quote.

                  In another thread M21 said"I was actually just reading an article on this the other day where the author stated that despite exhaustive efforts he was never able to confirm that was an actual design flaw in the Iowas. I wish i remembered where i read it...i went through a hell of a lot of sites looking for the Mk8 AP shell data. :("

                  http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sho...d.php?p=193166 post #65

                  And William Jurens together with Iowa crewmembers and the staff at NSWC Dahlgren, performed a search of the official records for detailed data on this specific problem, but could find nothing in the files suggesting that the alignments were in any way out of the ordinary. This when he was researching his Gunnery piece.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                    I'd be making a lot more post.

                    He and I seem to be on the same wavelength. But he does have better references.

                    I also decided that, no matter how many official references and eyewitnesse reports that disprove some of the BB myths. Certain people would rather believe the Ted Y, Stearman and Sparks "Facts". On BBs, F-18s and A-10s.
                    So why waste time posting.
                    What "Yablonski, Stearnman, Sparks" A-10 facts would those be?

                    Since when is the A-10 even a controversial platform? You and shipwreck seem to be caught up in 1990. As well as the only two A-10 detractors on the entire board that i can think of. Odd that you would even mention the A-10 at all. Where did that come from?
                    Last edited by Bill; 11 Sep 06,, 09:15.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                      Whitney and John Campbell both referenced Norman Friedman in their books concerning that quote.

                      In another thread M21 said"I was actually just reading an article on this the other day where the author stated that despite exhaustive efforts he was never able to confirm that was an actual design flaw in the Iowas. I wish i remembered where i read it...i went through a hell of a lot of sites looking for the Mk8 AP shell data. :("

                      http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sho...d.php?p=193166 post #65
                      I do remember reading that, but i had read literally dozens of sites that night, and foolishly i didnt save the link for future use.

                      Originally posted by TopHatter
                      I've long since stopped worshipping at the Temple Of The Almighty Battleship That Should Be Reactivated,
                      Same here. The USN has such money problems that the entire notion is ridiculous in this budgetary climate.

                      My problem is that i think the Def budget should be at least a full 1% of GDP more than it is. If it was, we'd be able to afford all kinds of things we can't afford now.
                      Last edited by Bill; 11 Sep 06,, 18:52.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by M21Sniper View Post
                        I do remember reading that, but i had read literally dozens of sites that night, and foolishly i didnt save the link for future use.


                        Same here. The USN has such money problems that the entire notion is ridiculous in this budgetary climate.

                        My problem is that i think the Def budget should be at least a full 1% of GDP more than it is. If it was, we'd be able to afford all kinds of thin
                        Snipe, When you come over I have found something you might find pretty interesting as far as naval technology is concerned. But it wont be posted here.;)
                        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                          Snipe, When you come over I have found something you might find pretty interesting as far as naval technology is concerned. But it wont be posted here.;)
                          Sounds great bro, i'm looking very much fwd to the tour. :)

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by M21Sniper View Post
                            As well as the only two A-10 detractors on the entire board that i can think of. Odd that you would even mention the A-10 at all. Where did that come from?
                            As far as Shipwreck is concerned, it's fairly obvious where it came from: It's a fun way to piss people off that are enamoured with the Hog.
                            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                              As far as Shipwreck is concerned, it's fairly obvious where it came from: It's a fun way to piss people off that are enamoured with the Hog.
                              And what does this say? .......!
                              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by M21Sniper View Post
                                What "Yablonski, Stearnman, Sparks" A-10 facts would those be?

                                Since when is the A-10 even a controversial platform? You and shipwreck seem to be caught up in 1990. As well as the only two A-10 detractors on the entire board that i can think of. Odd that you would even mention the A-10 at all. Where did that come from?
                                I used the A-10 because it seems to be the somewhat heated subject around here lately.

                                I have very little against the A-10. But it is a controversal platform, if not for congress that bird would have been dead long ago.

                                I do think its importance in ODS was way overstated by those trying to keep it in the inventory.

                                The big thing I have against A-10s right now is that instead of fighting for all these improvments to the Hog community , the community should have been fighting for a more modern platform. Instead they fought for things that make them a low rent version of a 16 Block50. Now both will be able to do precision engagements. I see that as a quick trip to the boneyard. If the F-117s can get chopped the A-10s don't stand a chance.

                                So when the next round of aircraft cuts come to pay for more F-22s, guess who goes to the chopping block. The old airframes that we are rebuilding for an aircraft that spends 95% of its engagements doing the same thing that our F-16s and now F-22s do.

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