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Thread: Kicking Below The Belt

  1. #1
    Senior Contributor THL's Avatar
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    Kicking Below The Belt

    So the young one and I are watching King of the Hill and it is the episode where Bobby took a women's self defense course and learned to kick an attacker in the groin to defend himself. He starts to go around kicking everyone until his dad tells him not to and.....well none of this matters. Where I am going with this is that if I were to be atacked, my reflex is to hit the guy in the face or to bite him, not the groin. If that did not work, kicking near the bottom of the zipper would be my second choice.

    This was actually taught to me by my stepfather when I was in 1st grade. My friends older brother (he was in 3rd grade) used to walk behind us home and one day he was making fun of his sister and I stood up for her. He ended up hitting me in the face with his lunchbox (back in the day when lunchboxes were metal) and gave me a black eye. That night my stepdad taught me the knee lift and the next time he picked on us - I took care of him.

    As men though, is this acceptable fighting? If another guy were to attack or even just start a fight with you, is it socially okay for men to "stoop this low"?
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatsLiberal
    As men though, is this acceptable fighting? If another guy were to attack or even just start a fight with you, is it socially okay for men to "stoop this low"?
    As far as I am concerned, if the situation has deteriorated to the point of a fistfight, then the only acceptable thing is winning and winning quickly.

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    Banned Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatsLiberal
    As men though, is this acceptable fighting? If another guy were to attack or even just start a fight with you, is it socially okay for men to "stoop this low"?
    Only in a fight to "the death" or severe incapacitation. I.e. a real fight with a real enemy.

    Robert Heinlein once wrote "Never kick a man in the balls unless you intend on killing him immediately thereafter."

    Anything else is dirty.

    -dale

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    If it's a friend, no. If it's anyone else then I'm with TH. If it's one of the cerebrally challenged guys on the audio in Dalem's thread about the 5 year anniversary on 9-11, then not only is it ok but that's exactly how I would start the fight.

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    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    As men though, is this acceptable fighting? If another guy were to attack or even just start a fight with you, is it socially okay for men to "stoop this low"?
    I had a good friend who would do that or another "cheap shot" right off the bat. His reasoning was that if somethign was worth him defending himself or beating someone else then they probably had it coming. Furthermore he said a street fight is not a boxing match.

    The guy never got beaten up... people didn't even want trouble with him after a couple times...
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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    Military Professional sappersgt's Avatar
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    Fight dirty or don't fight at all

    There comes a time in the physical development of young men (usually about the age to get a driving permit) where they gain the strength to be able to kill someone with their bare hands. At that time I have a "heart to heart" with them. Fighting is serious business, one step away from shooting someone. This is NOT about a beer scuffle with your mates. A fight with a stranger who doesn't play by your rules can and will leave you crippled for life (if you live). I taught my son to never leave a fight without breaking something of your opponents. If you are not willing to maim that person and suffer the consequences then DON"T FIGHT. You are often better off suffering whatever indignity whether real or imagined. Sometimes unfortunately you don't get a choice.

    My opinions about this may seem extreme but then I'm still here to tell the tale, others are not.

    I was a "Silat" instructor at the Military Police Academy and at the Sapper School in South Africa. Silat is an Indonesian form of hand to hand combat used by the SADF and is also taught at the MP school at Fort Polk. Silat is highly adaptable and lends itself readily to other martial disciplines. I would highly recommend it budding martial art aficionados.

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    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Unless it's OoE and your coming at him with a hockey puck it's not that easy to hit someone in the gonads, there are plenty of other shots you can take that are easier and nearly as effective.
    Having said that women do have an advantage in that men usually tend to stand up straight with legs slightly apart when confronted by women, and don't have the same expectation of being struck.
    Personally I believe if anyone is coming at you looking to do GBH, then anything goes, within reason.
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    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    but yea.. there are much more faster and effeicient ways to neutralize someone... I don't know about others, but a couple of fast punches straight on the other dudes nose and he is effectively neutralized... (unless ofcourse he's got his nose bone removed...)
    The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatsLiberal
    As men though, is this acceptable fighting? If another guy were to attack or even just start a fight with you, is it socially okay for men to "stoop this low"?
    Its the best thing to do if you are in a tight spot. You have to win.
    But in real life fights are not like we see in the movies, its more like WWF.
    Unless it's OoE and your coming at him with a hockey puck it's not that easy to hit someone in the gonads, there are plenty of other shots you can take that are easier and nearly as effective.
    I would'nt adivse anyone to go after OoE, since he is a father of daughters, he would have taken up Tai-chi classes, since it would illegal in Canada to shoot unwanted suiters chasing his daughters.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter
    As far as I am concerned, if the situation has deteriorated to the point of a fistfight, then the only acceptable thing is winning and winning quickly.
    Im with that Marquis of Queens rules A last resort however if contemplated from foe immediate with no haste.

  11. #11
    HKHolic Senior Contributor leib10's Avatar
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    Street brawling usually deteriorates into no-holds barred combat, which entails biting, throwing sand into one's eyes, and yes, kicking in the groin. Only on a few rare occasions are fights fought with some sense of honor, using only fists.
    "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

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    Quote Originally Posted by troung
    His reasoning was that if somethign was worth him defending himself or beating someone else then they probably had it coming.

    Furthermore he said a street fight is not a boxing match.
    Both are excellent points. It's the same thing in warfare. Never give the enemy even the slightest chance of anything but losing and losing big time.

    Quite a bit of hay was made about the "Saving Private Lynch" raid on that hospital. The Iraqi staff derisively observed that the Americans stormed the defenseless hospital like something out of a Hollywood movie and complained that they were herded into groups at gunpoint and treated like combatants.

    My first - unsarcastic - thought was: "Wow, that U.S. rescue team was really using the kid gloves..."

    Quote Originally Posted by sappersgt
    A fight with a stranger who doesn't play by your rules can and will leave you crippled for life (if you live).

    If you are not willing to maim that person and suffer the consequences then DON"T FIGHT. You are often better off suffering whatever indignity whether real or imagined. Sometimes unfortunately you don't get a choice.
    Another 2 excellent points, which explain why I've been in precisely one fistfight in my life (back in high school). Because I know that in order to avoid being killed or maimed, my only hope to either kill or disable my opponent quickly (and probably permanently) using whatever means at my disposal.

    And frankly I'm not willing to deal with the consequences (legal etc) afterwards, nor live with that memory for the rest of my life.

    If that makes me a chicken-shyt, then so be it.

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    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter
    Both are excellent points. It's the same thing in warfare. Never give the enemy even the slightest chance of anything but losing and losing big time.

    Quite a bit of hay was made about the "Saving Private Lynch" raid on that hospital. The Iraqi staff derisively observed that the Americans stormed the defenseless hospital like something out of a Hollywood movie and complained that they were herded into groups at gunpoint and treated like combatants.

    My first - unsarcastic - thought was: "Wow, that U.S. rescue team was really using the kid gloves..."



    Another 2 excellent points, which explain why I've been in precisely one fistfight in my life (back in high school). Because I know that in order to avoid being killed or maimed, my only hope to either kill or disable my opponent quickly (and probably permanently) using whatever means at my disposal.

    And frankly I'm not willing to deal with the consequences (legal etc) afterwards, nor live with that memory for the rest of my life.

    If that makes me a chicken-shyt, then so be it.
    Being honorable dont make you chicken shyt in the least. Ive been in quite a few and sometimes even when you win you feel like a chicken shyt because you know that you could have walked away without lifting a finger and yet honorably.

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    Military Professional sappersgt's Avatar
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    Silat and "the middle"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tronic
    but yea.. there are much more faster and effeicient ways to neutralize someone... I don't know about others, but a couple of fast punches straight on the other dudes nose and he is effectively neutralized... (unless ofcourse he's got his nose bone removed...)
    The problem with kicking someone in the groin is that it's in the middle of your opponents body. That makes it easy to defend and to deliver the subsequent counter strike. The term "Silat" is actually a contraction of an Indonesian phrase translated as "controls the middle" and describes the philosophy of hand to hand combat. A better move would be to break your opponents knee, it's vulnerable and outside of his "middle" making it hard to protect.

  15. #15
    Military Professional Ray's Avatar
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    In our training in Unarmed Combat, the groin is one of the areas which is supposed to be sensitive spot. Actually, the more specific area in the groin region, to be precise.

    No harm in taking advantage of this area if the situation is "tight'!

    In so far as the "middle" being protected, one has to act fast. Breaking legs etc takes time and as Bush says, "It is real hard work"!

    I love this phrase of Mr Bush.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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