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  • The 'curse' of having a girl

    India might be a country rushing headlong into 21st century but every year thousands of babies are aborted or killed at birth because they are girls.

    Our correspondent contemplates this as she prepares to have a baby herself.

    The heat is stifling here. Some days it's pushing 45 degrees. My body is overheating and we're only two thirds of the way there!

    I'm not alone - 25 million other women are expected to give birth in India this year. With the very best medical care, our bundle of joy stands a good chance, but one out of 22 Indian babies will not survive beyond its first month.

    According to UNICEF, poor nutrition and hygiene, and a high number of young mothers contribute to low birth weights and slim chances of survival.


    Killed at birth

    If our baby is a girl - her arrival is likely to be greeted, by some, with condolences. A friend - delighted with his new daughter soon became infuriated at comments that his home had been cursed with a girl.

    "Relatives arrived laden with gifts of sweet meats," he said. "They cuddled her and shook their heads at our misfortune."

    My mother told me how guilty and how much of a failure she was made to feel when I arrived a year after my older sister.


    These are attitudes engrained in many sections of Indian society. More than 10 million female fetuses have been aborted in India in the last two decades.

    The prospect of paying a dowry and knowing a daughter could never generate the income of a son is enough for some families to commit murder.

    In my parents' native Punjab, girls are often killed at birth. It has skewed the ratio of girls to boys so much that some villages have not seen the birth of a female in years. Thousands of men in rural areas now have trouble finding a wife.

    I remember the stories my mother told me - of the neighbour who would take baby girls in the middle of the night and drown them in the village well. My mother also told me how guilty and how much of a failure she was made to feel when I arrived a year after my older sister.

    It is not only in the countryside that daughters are unwanted. Middle class, educated women are often at the front of the queue to terminate.

    Blessings and curses

    What a contrast to the welcome a boy receives. Then the gates of the baby's home will be crowded with screeching Hijaras.

    They are eunuchs - castrated men, long haired and unshaven, dressed in bright Salwaar Kameezes or saris. Fierce, aggressive and unrelenting, they wander from home to home searching out new born sons and demanding cash.

    "Your good fortune must be shared," they say, "otherwise we will shower you with curses or steal your baby".

    Did the doctor really think that I would terminate the pregnancy if I was told a girl was on the way?


    Theirs is a flourishing trade, profiting from deep rooted superstitions. The eunuchs' blessings and curses can be equally potent, so neighbours advise you to pay them off handsomely.

    But we will not know the sex of our child until it is born. It is illegal for doctors to divulge the information because of the widespread termination of female fetuses.

    We suggested to the charming middle-aged doctor that as foreigners surely that rule need not apply to us - he had already told other friends who are both white, the sex of their baby.

    But the doctor smiled and shook his head. "Bad timing," he said, "I couldn't possibly - a colleague of mine has just been locked up and paraded in front of the local press for revealing the sex of a baby".

    I am of Indian descent but my husband is a blonde, blue-eyed and fiercely proud Scotsman. He was gob-smacked. I felt deflated - did the doctor really think that I would terminate the pregnancy if I was told a girl was on the way?


    Navdip does not know the sex of her unborn baby

    We could not know our baby's sex but we reassured each other that at least the scan showed it was healthy.

    If all goes well, we will greet our new arrival at the end of August.

    When we take him or her home from hospital, the baby will have its first glimpse of Delhi life.

    Blaring car horns, loud belching exhaust fumes, the electronic beats of Bollywood tracks - all competing for attention in the kaleidoscope of sound that fills the air.

    And the smells too, the foul stench across the highway from the Yamuna river: an exotic blend of poisonous sewage and household waste.

    Along these banks sit small children who squat, wash and drink from the river. Their homes are in the filthy shanty towns that line the road the three of us will take home.

    Dressed in rags, they will come scrambling towards our car and peer through the windows to stare at the child born into privilege. One grubby hand outstretched, the other motioning to a hungry mouth, they will beg for a share in our good fortune.

    This is the world you came into, I will tell our child when he or she is old enough: a country on the cusp of incredible change. Full of contrast, contradiction and sometimes abject horror.

    It is the home of your maternal ancestors, I will say, and just as my mother raised me with stories of a past that helped shape and direct me - I plan to do the same with you.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/5125810.stm

  • #2
    hmm... nice bold capitol letters... that is the story of poor backwards people... and the story is the same in Pakistan, Bangladesh and even China... don't get me started on women in India and the freedoms, the oppurtunities they have here... This is a country where the women can walk shoulder to shoulder with men and where women have equal rights and are not oppressed in society... the society that you boldedly highlighted in that article is not the whole Indian society, it is the backwards poor society in India... this is the society living under poverty... the progressive Indian society has successful women in all parts of society ranging from the showbiz to athletics to politics... so, Plat my friend, you should try to change the mindset of the progressive Pakistani society and I will do my best here to change the mindset of the backward poor society in India... ;)
    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

    Comment


    • #3
      (sarcasm on) women in pakistan have it so much batter man!they run around in bikinis fearless in the pakistan"s open society.....they run businesses & enterprises...while the men folk go to madrassas to study,the women r sent to cambridge & oxford for higher studies......the female models & lollywood actresses of pakistan r making WAVES around the world with their talent & looks....wat else.....

      enough for today.

      (sarcasm off)

      ever heard of glass houses platinum795434567.....watever.


      Comment


      • #4
        No need to stir up on the issue

        Dear indian members its a social problem so why not to discuss ways and means to redress it instead of getting boiled.

        Comment


        • #5
          India's female shortage leads to wife-renting

          See wht the stupid notion of having a wish only for the boy baby at the cost of girl has led to following practice



          http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...path=News/News



          India's female shortage leads to wife-renting
          Jun. 19, 2006. 05:50 AM
          ASSOCIATED PRESS

          NEW DELHI — Some husbands in western India are renting out their wives to other men, cashing in on a shortage of single women available for marriage, according to a news report Monday.

          Atta Prajapati, a farm worker who lives in Gujarat state, leases out his wife Laxmi to a wealthy landowner for $175 US a month, the Times of India reported, citing unidentified police officials. A farm worker earns a monthly minimum wage of around $22.

          Laxmi is expected to live with the man, look after him and his house, and have sex with him, the report said.

          The Times said this was not an isolated incident in the western state, and that several men rent their wives to other men on a month-by-month basis.
          Gujarat officials were unwilling to comment on the report when contacted Monday by The Associated Press.

          The male-female ratio is becoming increasing skewed across India because many parents abort female fetuses, preferring sons to daughters.

          Female children must be married off, and to achieve that a daughter's parents usually have to pay the groom's family a dowry of cash and gifts — often a massive burden on the parents' resources.

          Dowries were outlawed in 1961, but the practice is still common and the law ill-enforced.

          The nationwide number of girls per 1,000 boys declined from 945 in 1991 to 927 in 2001, according to the 2001 national census. But in wealthy Gujarat state, the census showed 828 females for every 1,000 males, although officials say the number could be as low as 700 girls per 1,000 boys in parts of the state.

          It is not unusual for wealthy families to hire housekeeping staff in India, but prostitution is illegal.

          The lack of marriageable girls in Gujurat has also led to booming business for bride brokers, who are paid to find a woman for a man to marry.Brokers charge a groom's family up to $1,520, and the girl's family will receive around $435, the newspaper said.

          Comment


          • #6
            "Sex between men is also commonplace in Pakistan's gender-segregated madrassas"

            Originally posted by percentage_plyr
            (sarcasm on) women in pakistan have it so much batter man!they run around in bikinis fearless in the pakistan"s open society.....they run businesses & enterprises...while the men folk go to madrassas to study,the women r sent to cambridge & oxford for higher studies......the female models & lollywood actresses of pakistan r making WAVES around the world with their talent & looks....wat else.....

            enough for today.

            (sarcasm off)

            ever heard of glass houses platinum795434567.....watever.

            Besides Pakistani women,lets not leave out Pakistani Boys and homos They are discriminated as well.

            http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ide.../open_secrets/

            LAHORE -- The first time Aziz, a lean, dark-haired 20-year-old in this bustling cultural capital, had sex with a man, he was a pretty, illiterate boy of 16. A family friend took him to his house, put on a Pakistani-made soft-porn video, and raped him . Now, says Aziz (who gives only his first name), he is "addicted" to sex with men, so he hangs around Lahore's red-light districts, getting paid a few rupees for sex. At night, he goes home to his parents and prays to Allah to forgive him.

            In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, homosexuality is not only illegal, it is a crime punishable by whipping, imprisonment, or even death. But across all classes and social groups, men have sex with men. In villages throughout the country, young boys are often forcibly "taken" by older men, starting a cycle of abuse and revenge that social activists and observers say is the common pattern of homosexual sex in Pakistan. Often these boys move to the cities and become prostitutes. Most people know it happens -- from the police to the wives of the men involved.

            In some areas, homosexual sex is even tacitly accepted -- though still officially illegal -- as long as it doesn't threaten traditional marriage. In the Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP), which shares many tribal and cultural links with neighboring Afghanistan, the ethnic Pashtun men who dominate the region are renowned for taking young boys as lovers. No one has been executed for sodomy in Pakistan's recent history, but across the border in Afghanistan, the Taliban (who are also overwhelmingly Pashtun) executed three men for sodomy in 1998 by bulldozing a brick wall over them, burying two of them alive. (The third survived, which meant, according to Taliban law, that he was innocent, so he was taken to a hospital for treatment.)

            Among Pakistan's urban elite, there is a growing community of men who identify as gay, some of whom even come out to their friends. Men meet on Internet bulletin boards, or at private pool parties with lots of rented boys and heavy security. But they are a tiny, terrified minority, living in cities such as Lahore, Karachi, or Islamabad, where the cultural elite has carved out a niche for itself. In a country where alcohol is forbidden except to Christians, dancing is banned, and the Koran guides many aspects of criminal law, such men rarely step outside of their protected world. (Because women in Pakistan inhabit, for the most part, a strictly private realm, it is difficult to say with any certainty how common lesbian relationships may be.)

            Homosexuals in Pakistan walk a fine line between harsh legal and cultural prohibition and some form of unspoken social acceptance. "Islamic tradition frowns on but acknowledges male-male sex, and this plays a role in permitting clandestine sex so long as it is not allowed to interfere with family life, which is of paramount importance," the San Francisco-based sociologist Stephen O. Murray writes in "Sociolegal Control of Homosexuality: A Multi-Nation Comparison," a collection of scholarly essays published in 1997. Further complicating matters, the most common form of male homosexuality in Pakistan, according to Murray, is pederasty, where an older man entices or coerces (sometimes forcibly) a younger boy into sex.

            Among the many obstacles facing men who have sex with men in Pakistan is this close association, in the eyes of many Pakistanis, between homosexuality and exploitation. But they face their own psychological barriers as well. Of the dozens of men interviewed for this article, almost none who admitted to having homosexual sex identified themselves as "gay." (All would give only their first names, which could not be verified, or would speak only anonymously.) Most do not even believe that homosexuality should be legal.

            Aziz says he now enjoys sex with other men, but he believes that's only because he isn't able to have sex with women, who are largely inaccessible -- even in red-light districts, where there are many more men than women for rent. And like most Pakistani men who have homosexual sex, Aziz believes it is wrong. "The Verses of the Koran do not allow it," he says. "That's the only thing that matters."

            . . .

            According to the Koran, when the prophet Lot saw that his people had been engaged in sodomy and debauchery, he said, "Come ye to men, instead of women, lustfully? Ye are indeed a people given to excess." When they refused to repent their sins, Allah destroyed them: "And we rained a rain upon them: and see what was the end of the wicked!"

            The lines don't seem to leave much room for interpretation. But Faisal Alam, founder of the Al-Fatiha Foundation, a Washington-based organization for gay and lesbian Muslims, argues that Lot's people were killed not because they had homosexual sex, but because they were forcing sex on each other. That interpretation is unlikely to hold much weight with Pakistan's religious leaders. The matter is not open for debate here -- not among mullahs, academics, or even activists.

            Like many Pakistani men who have sex with men, Aziz believes he is plagued by a "satan," or demon, that makes him desire men. Veteran human rights lawyer Hina Jilani, who lives in Lahore and specializes in women's rights cases, says the inconsistent application of Sharia (Islamic law) and Pakistani criminal law has blurred the line between abuse and gay sex, and the emphasis on Islamic values has imbued the very word "homosexuality" with a moral color.

            "Here we have two totally different issues: exploited boys and sex workers versus consensual sex," Jilani says. "But the majority of people will think of them as the same. Even people like myself who do understand this issue haven't been able to take it up, except in the context of violence against people on basis of sex orientation."Jilani says there are innumerable cases of young boys -- some sex workers, some not -- charged under Pakistan's sodomy law, even if they have been enticed into sex.


            Page 3 of 5 -- Jilani, who has defended dozens of children accused under the law, says they spend long years in jail awaiting trial; their families are stigmatized and often forced to disown them. In most parts of Pakistan, it's easier to lure a boy into sex than it is to catch a glimpse of a woman's legs. Sometimes it doesn't take more than the promise of a new cricket bat.
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            A 16-year-old who identifies himself only as Khurram knows all about that. Born in Dina, a small city in central Pakistan, his father died when he was young, and by the time he was 8 he was sent out to support his family. He says his employer sexually assaulted him, and he eventually realized that if he let it happen, he would make more money than he would serving chai. So he moved to the big city. Now he lives beside the bus stand in Rawalpindi, sleeping during the day and emerging at dusk to wait for work. For less than a dollar, he'll let a man have sex with him on a string bed behind a tobacco shop. "I don't like what I do," he says sorrowfully. "I am doing it so my sister can go to school."
            . . .

            There are no discernible red-light districts in the Northwest Frontier Province. In Peshawar, the provincial capital, women billow through the dusty streets in white "shuttlecock" burkas, named for the netted veil over the face. Many of the city's movie theaters have been shut down, and playing music in local buses is banned.

            Ruled by an alliance of six Islamic parties who recently declared Sharia to be supreme over Pakistani national law, the NWFP is one of the most religiously conservative regions of Pakistan. This is the province that helped give rise to the Taliban, and where Al Qaeda leaders -- including Osama bin Laden -- continue to seek refuge, according to the Pakistani government.

            Yet this is also the region of Pakistan where homosexuality is most tolerated -- however quietly. Among the Pashtun majority, having a young, attractive boyfriend is a symbol of prestige and wealth for affluent middle-aged men. Indeed, Pashtun men often keep a young boy in their hujra, the male room of the house that the wife rarely enters. The practice is so common that there are various slang terms for the boyfriends in different regional languages: larke (boy), warkai, alec.

            According to many people interviewed in Peshawar, there's a strict code of behavior in these relationships. The boy is always the passive partner in sex and has often been coerced into the relationship; he is given food and clothes by his partner, and is in may cases forbidden to leave the relationship or marry. (In theory, the boys could marry when they're grown, but they are generally considered damaged, and end up wandering the streets as outcasts.)

            Sayed Mudassir Shah, a human rights activist based in Peshawar, believes this goes on in part because of the extreme austerity of the traditional culture. Even after marriage, women are kept separate from men (except at night), and a strict interpretation of Islam discourages sports, music, and TV. Indeed, says Sayed, the practice is deeply embedded in the local culture. "It is so common to take boy lovers, that it is part of our Pashtun folklore," Sayed says. "One story tells of a wife crying to her husband that he has made her jealous, because he is spending so much time in the hujra with his boyfriend. This is folklore, but it is similar in life."

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            Sex between men is also commonplace in Pakistan's gender-segregated madrassas, or religious schools, where students and mullahs will go for months without setting eyes on a woman. Here, more than anywhere else in Pakistan, the situation resembles that found among prison inmates, where sex is mostly about availability and dominance rather than preference. In many cases, families take their sons to madrassas because they cannot afford to raise them themselves. A researcher with the AIDS Prevention Association of Pakistan (who asked that her name not be used) cited a saying such parents have for the teachers when they bring them their sons: "His flesh is yours, but his bones are ours."

            . . .

            A spirited, self-confident young man of 25 who lives in Islamabad, the nation's capital, and identifies himself only as Sajat, tells me that he first had sex with a man at a religious school in a central Pakistani village. But unlike most madrassa students and the boys in the red-light districts, Sajat's first sexual encounter with a man was by choice. Now a well-paid government servant in Islamabad, he hoots with laughter when he describes his preference for young, "hot-blooded, fighting soldier men," and happily recounts his regular trawls for boys through Islamabad's parks.

            But Sajat's irreverent, openly gay self abruptly disappears when marriage comes up. He admits that he is engaged to a match of his parents' choosing, and will marry in the next two years. "Nature has made females for males, so after I get married, I will stop having sex with men," he intones, as though dutifully.

            Indeed, gay men in Pakistan usually succumb to family pressure to marry, and those who are brave or rich enough to refuse to marry live under constant threat. Human rights workers say that the dearth of Pakistani gay-rights or community groups heightens the isolation and fear of those who identify -- and live -- as homosexuals. There are groups working against the spread of AIDS in Pakistan, but their work is often impeded by the cultural disapproval of homosexual sex. Continued...


            Haji Muhammad Hanif, the general secretary of the AIDS Prevention Association of Pakistan, says that when he talks to male sex workers in the red-light districts of Lahore, he first asks them, "Do you know that gay sex is a heinous crime?" According to Pakistan's official figures, there were only some 2,000 cases of AIDS in Pakistan as of June 2003, but data collection is limited by social taboos. Estimates by the World Health Organization and UNAIDS put the 2002 figure at 78,000.
            Last edited by gilgamesh; 01 Jul 06,, 17:06.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by gilgamesh
              Besides Pakistani women,lets not leave out Pakistani Boys and homos They are discriminated as well.

              In most parts of Pakistan, it's easier to lure a boy into sex than it is to catch a glimpse of a woman's legs. Sometimes it doesn't take more than the promise of a new cricket bat.

              Sex between men is also commonplace in Pakistan's gender-segregated madrassas, or religious schools, where students and mullahs will go for months without setting eyes on a woman. .
              if this is true then people like Imran Khan are mainly responsible for this who himself has taken international experience and want new generation of pakistan to study in madrassas.

              Comment


              • #8
                Very impressively written.

                It's a good thing Islam fought female infanticide 1400 years ago!

                Tronic:
                It is not only in the countryside that daughters are unwanted. Middle class, educated women are often at the front of the queue to terminate.
                The writer was brutally honest. She didn't even spare the details of the treatment her own mother got from friends and family on her birth.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Most of the world is a benighted place. Religion and its effects are a large part of WHY the ignorance is so deep and so debilitating.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    lol....asim aquil....is sodomy a punishable crime in pak.??

                    i know it is in india.....under "unnatural sexual practices" rt there alongwith pedophilia.dunno the IPC section.

                    constructive criticism is welcome.....but didnt u read that thing bout glass houses.

                    comeon,u guys r pakistanis.....not from luxembourgh......i thought getting your own house in order wld be the no.1 priority......considering the state of ur nation.

                    but,yes......for india.......female foetecide is a shame,it really is a national disgrace alongwith other issues like basic health,primary education,malnutrition,poverty.

                    if it makes u forget the far worse state of ur own nation for a little while......be my guest,have a good laugh.
                    Last edited by percentage_plyr; 02 Jul 06,, 10:07.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by percentage_plyr
                      lol....asim aquil....is sodomy a punishable crime in pak.??
                      Yes, what's that got to do with female infanticide?

                      constructive criticism is welcome.....but didnt u read that thing bout glass houses.
                      Dude, stop taking offence so easily. Its just a wrong like a million other wrongs that go around in India. It's a got big problems, Pakistan's got big problems.

                      Being sentimental with the discussions won't help India or Pakistan.

                      if it makes u forget the far worse state of ur own nation for a little while......be my guest,have a good laugh.
                      Seems like Pakistani woes makes YOU forget the far worse state of your nation. I accept the problems of homosexual cases of sodomy in Madrassas and the unpunished rape crimes due to Hadood Ordinance, in fact I go forum to forum pointing them out.

                      For starters the entire Pakistani nation is fighting a strong battle against the Hadood ordinance these days for details on the Hadood ordinance and the struggle goto http://www.geo.tv/zs

                      Our glass house is made up strong bullet-proof double paned glass. We can take it, apparently you can't.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The thread is not about the SEX so please dont try to overshadow it by psoting irrelevent stuff.

                        The main theme was about the follwoing issue

                        [quote] every year thousands of babies are aborted or killed at birth because they are girls.


                        25 million other women are expected to give birth in India this year. With the very best medical care, our bundle of joy stands a good chance, but one out of 22 Indian babies will not survive beyond its first month. [quote]

                        My only point is to discuss it to find ways and means to redress the problem why you u guys are so dump

                        wht if boys were being killed like this becase someone wants only daughters.

                        Cant u guys have constructive suggestions regardless of who's country facing the problem.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No. For a lot of these guys, they can't.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bluesman
                            No. For a lot of these guys, they can't.
                            agreed

                            im thinking what the hell these guys doin all their lives


                            BTW blue like ur sig lets see if your sig can work on them

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              for once...i"d like to read opinions of the pakistanis actually LIVING IN PAK. & seeing it all first hand.

                              anybody????

                              asim?? no he lives in "havelis" in dubai.

                              jana?? no isnt she from holland.

                              neo?? dutch too.

                              dizasta??? he claims to be a rocket scientist or something in US.

                              platinum7985344?? another dude in america....or was it UK?

                              are there no pakistani members actually in pakistan to give us the true picture of different issues that we come across in discussion now & then.

                              thts just a thought.....of course dont intend to evade the evil of female infanticide.in my own state the sex ratio is somethi like 827 females for 1000 males...which is really bad.

                              wats the sex ratio for pakistan???anybody??(with links of course)


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