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  1. #17491
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    How to deal with encryption ? they need keys. Whatsapp has to provide them. We've been down this path ten years ago with Blackberry & terrorism. The govt demanded Blackberry host their servers inside the country. I've not heard much more about this. But i think Blackberry refused to grant them decryption keys or only in specific limited instances. Not clear which. But allowed the govt some way to track terrorists who were using encrypted chats.
    Technology, since then, has expanded at a very rapid pace. As I said, there are particular applications that does the work. If you still have to argue over it, figure it out how the NSA hacks into Whatsapp, Telegram etc among many others and snoop around. Don't believe me, ask the Feds how they cracked open the iPhone of the San Bernardino terrorist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    What you described there is more than law & order its dominant castes acting on others. There was a case recently in UP of a dalit groom wanted to take his wedding procession to his bride's house as is the custom with higher castes in the village.. There were some thakur villages along the route and they refused. They prefer Dalits keep their weddings short & simple. This guy wasn't going to agree.

    To get a permit he approached the courts and went as far as the CM and after six months got over 400 cops stationed along the route to protect the procession that then went ahead on the originally planned route. Anythings possible in an election year.
    Just so that you know, there is no caste among tribals and christians in the NE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Condemning your own is going against your tribe and doing it publically ?
    When will they rise then? They keep falling time and again. Tribals in a lot of places have chased the non-tribals out, people who've been living there for decades, had their own lands and houses, and genuine Indians. We hear about the Kashmiri Pandits, how many heard what I am talking here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Lots of this going around. Free country. Election year. If you're not aware of what's happening the opposition will feed you all sorts of nonsense. They are unable to say a single positive thing about the govt in over four years. Not one. Everything an abject failure. I've countered where possible.

    Who needs fake news when the opposition is so good at it : D

    The good thing is it isn't anywhere as bad as the US.
    Congress' fake news doesn't move me. Nor did BJPs during the period of 2012-2014. I read news, daily, religiously.

    People are getting killed and you think it's not as bad as the US? How many people get killed in US because of their food choices, or because of a rumour?

    Why didn't the BJP government come out with a law for these lynchings yet at the Centre? Because they have to protect their vote bank.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  2. #17492
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Technology, since then, has expanded at a very rapid pace. As I said, there are particular applications that does the work. If you still have to argue over it, figure it out how the NSA hacks into Whatsapp, Telegram etc among many others and snoop around. Don't believe me, ask the Feds how they cracked open the iPhone of the San Bernardino terrorist.
    San Bernardino was easy. All the evidence it was determined was on that one iphone. Once in you had the evidence. It's not comparable to what happens with Whatsapp which is more complex.

    A message gets sent, who sent it. The next bit is for this message to be potent it needs to be shared. One person sends a message that goes no where then there is no lynching.

    If that message is shared. Understand what that means for a minute. Everybody that shares that message is now complicit. Does not matter if they were the first or the fiftieth.

    A group of guys decides to go lynch somebody. Prima facie they are the culprits.

    What do you do with the people who shared the message. What is their liability. Is the last person that communicated with the lynch mob responsible or everybody right from the start. Also not everybody in a group shares they are just passive observers that might reply to the topic. Are they also liable.

    All this assuming you can clearly establish how the message spread to whom in an unambigious way.

    To add i've heard of people getting into trouble because of speech used in whatsapp groups. Promoting enmity between different groups is a cognizable offence. Online or offline is immaterial. So the govt is on to it already to a certain extent.


    Just so that you know, there is no caste among tribals and christians in the NE.
    It's competition among groups then. Show of power. The crimes inflicted have only that as the motive. The weaker group gets the worst because they dared to defy the existing order.


    When will they rise then? They keep falling time and again. Tribals in a lot of places have chased the non-tribals out, people who've been living there for decades, had their own lands and houses, and genuine Indians. We hear about the Kashmiri Pandits, how many heard what I am talking here?
    Competition over resources. Land grabs. Good old fashioned gangsterism and in the NE with a history of insurgency on top. They rise when the negatives outweigh the positives.

    Until the community acts there is little the govt can do because they will cover for their own. So crimes continue because there is a power equation in play. The outsider is a threat which then leads to counter attacks and so the spiral continues. The state is stretched thin and an equlibrium is established. Don't mess with the dominant group as there is no justice otherwise.

    Congress' fake news doesn't move me. Nor did BJPs during the period of 2012-2014. I read news, daily, religiously.

    People are getting killed and you think it's not as bad as the US? How many people get killed in US because of their food choices, or because of a rumour?
    Am saying the political dialog is much more polarised in the US compared to India. That's all.

    Why didn't the BJP government come out with a law for these lynchings yet at the Centre? Because they have to protect their vote bank.
    They have to now.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...3R27nSniP.html
    http://www.livelaw.in/lynching-parli...rt-guidelines/

    SC's Judgement on the writ filed

    Judgement makes a reference to an interesting essay by Mark Twain written in 1901 but only posthumously published because he was afraid he would have no friends in the south left

    United States of Lyncherdom
    Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Jul 18, at 16:44.

  3. #17493
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    San Bernardino was easy. All the evidence it was determined was on that one iphone. Once in you had the evidence. It's not comparable to what happens with Whatsapp which is more complex.
    Apple devices have default encryption, how do you get the evidence by just having the cellphone? The FBI contacted Apple to help them decrypt the contents of the iPhone. Apple declined. Then an Israeli company helped the Feds hack into the iPhone, though the hacked iPhone did not help much in the case.

    Encryptions (encrypt/decrypt) or hash functions are extremely difficult to reverse as they are painfully slow and very complex, but they are not irreversible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    A message gets sent, who sent it. The next bit is for this message to be potent it needs to be shared. One person sends a message that goes no where then there is no lynching.

    If that message is shared. Understand what that means for a minute. Everybody that shares that message is now complicit. Does not matter if they were the first or the fiftieth.

    A group of guys decides to go lynch somebody. Prima facie they are the culprits.

    What do you do with the people who shared the message. What is their liability. Is the last person that communicated with the lynch mob responsible or everybody right from the start. Also not everybody in a group shares they are just passive observers that might reply to the topic. Are they also liable.

    All this assuming you can clearly establish how the message spread to whom in an unambigious way.

    To add i've heard of people getting into trouble because of speech used in whatsapp groups. Promoting enmity between different groups is a cognizable offence. Online or offline is immaterial. So the govt is on to it already to a certain extent.
    Track the first guy who composed the lynching message, sentence him to a lifetime in jail. Continue checking message forwards until a forward which caused a specific lynching, sentence all of them who forwarded the messages to life in jail.

    This is not free speech. Our own MEA didn't go to police or file a case because of free speech. Those nasty trolls said many things to her, one being she has a Pakistani kidney IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    It's competition among groups then. Show of power. The crimes inflicted have only that as the motive. The weaker group gets the worst because they dared to defy the existing order.
    Did you read the article? The guy already had a murder/lynching case against him and was out on bail. Such is the condition. It was plain criminal lynching, and you're trying to find reasons where there are none.

    Those 2 Assamese guys went to a waterfall, where they had verbal fight with the accused. Sensing danger, they fled, but the accused followed them in his bike, and also forwarded messages to the village ahead that there were child lifters in the car. The innocents got lynched.

    if whatsapp cannot do anything, it better for them to shutdown their business in India. I am anyway no fan of the stupid Zuckerberg.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Competition over resources. Land grabs. Good old fashioned gangsterism and in the NE with a history of insurgency on top. They rise when the negatives outweigh the positives.

    Until the community acts there is little the govt can do because they will cover for their own. So crimes continue because there is a power equation in play. The outsider is a threat which then leads to counter attacks and so the spiral continues. The state is stretched thin and an equlibrium is established. Don't mess with the dominant group as there is no justice otherwise.
    The non-tribals settled in various parts of the NE when the British brought them over for administrative roles. There is no competition over resources. Apart from Assam, and in many places of Assam too, people should have 4-6 kids to utilise the resources properly. Land grab is a very North/South Indian thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Am saying the political dialog is much more polarised in the US compared to India. That's all.

    They have to now.

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...3R27nSniP.html
    http://www.livelaw.in/lynching-parli...rt-guidelines/

    SC's Judgement on the writ filed
    It's still better in the US than here in India. Here even educated people with degrees think news clippings on facebook and whatsapp is real and act accordingly.
    Last edited by Oracle; 23 Jul 18, at 05:10.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  4. #17494
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Alphajoz Timung was arrested earlier for another murder/lynching case, and was released on bail. He killed again. Rapists get bail, then they kill the girls parents, rape the girl again and set her on fire. Law & order is a fucking shame. Typical third world shit.
    People are getting killed and you think it's not as bad as the US? How many people get killed in US because of their food choices, or because of a rumour?
    See above for an essay by Mark Twain. They've been down this path a hundred years back. No tech necessary. He mentions copycats, one lynching leads to another and so on all over the country.

    The child should also know that by a law of our make, communities, as well as individuals, are imitators; and that a much-talked-of lynching will infallibly produce other lynchings here and there and yonder, and that in time these will breed a mania, a fashion; a fashion which will spread wide and wider, year by year, covering state after state, as with an advancing disease. Lynching has reached Colorado, it has reached California, it has reached Indiana--and now Missouri! I may live to see a negro burned in Union Square, New York, with fifty thousand people present, and not a sheriff visible, not a governor, not a constable, not a colonel, not a clergyman, not a law-and-order representative of any sort.
    Replace negro with suspected cow rustler ; )
    Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Jul 18, at 16:49.

  5. #17495
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  6. #17496
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    The Sen Toku I-400-class Imperial Japanese Navy submarines were the largest submarines of World War II. They could hold three planes. The idea was to use them to bomb strategic locations during WW2. This sub was imperial Japan's super weapon. This is where the concept of a sub being used to fire at a city comes from. We just use missiles these days and take the idea for granted

  7. #17497
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quota won't help, there are no jobs: Gadkari to Marathas

    The dude is progressive, but he is more into talks than implementation. He was about to scrap RTO, the hot-bed of corruption pan-India. Now he doesn't even talk about it.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  8. #17498
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    Government mulls Rs 11,000 crore bailout for Air India

    The pro-economic stance of the Modi led BJP government.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  9. #17499
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

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