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Thread: Regarding the concept of Shi.

  1. #31
    Senior Contributor Dago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xinhui
    Col,
    The other side of the coin, George W Bush is one of the worst Shi wanta-be in recently memory. His one-dimensional beliefs that by bring demo-crazy to Iraqi, it will end war on terrorism and peace in that region will not earn his a place in Shi hall of fame anytime soon.
    How do you come to that conclusion? Sure, GWB strikes you as a ignorant one-dimensional leader. However, how about you evaluate US foreign policy in general, instead.

    Isn't what happening in Iraq, a form of soft power in the way of brining change by political means in the region? While using tactical means as elment to achieve a greater objective, IE. Geopolitical change. (Economical/Political)

    Isn't that what Shi is all about?
    Last edited by Dago; 04 Jun 06, at 07:00.

  2. #32
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    I think the question is "if it works." Thus far, it's too early to tell with alot of interests wanting the Americans to fail.

  3. #33
    Senior Contributor Dago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers
    I think the question is "if it works." Thus far, it's too early to tell with alot of interests wanting the Americans to fail.
    In reference to Iraq in particular or in general of Democracy in the region coexisting along side of Islam?

    Two different completely issues, IMHO. Each with it's own set of hurdles.

  4. #34
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    I think I got it. Shi is all about manipulating and controlling momentum.

    Ronald Reagon realised the momentum of Soviet Union was losing its steam and decided to hasten its fall and prevent it from regaining steam.

    In the Indo-Sino war, I think Andy was trying to say that forcing India to actively defend its border will cause India to lose some of its steam in other areas, allowing China to catch up or pass and gain some form of advantage.

    In the analogy of football, it's sort of like this, once you're in the groove, you're hot. You are hitting on all cylinders and marching ahead, steamrolling everyone in the path. Sort of like Peyton Manning and Indianopolis Colts kicking ass all the way through its season but fell apart against the Steelers. It's the intangibles.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dago
    How do you come to that conclusion? Sure, GWB strikes you as a ignorant one-dimensional leader. However, how about you evaluate US foreign policy in general, instead.

    Isn't what happening in Iraq, a form of soft power in the way of brining change by political means in the region? While using tactical means as elment to achieve a greater objective, IE. Geopolitical change. (Economical/Political)

    Isn't that what Shi is all about?
    Dago, he's right in one respect. In terms of Shi, Bush is indeed one dimensional. Notice how long it took to admit that his comment, "Bring it on" was a mistake. To be a master of Shi, you need to be nimble and dextirous not a plodding elephant. It makes sense since Shi is a concept of Chinese and other concepts of of Chinese such as Kung fu stresses highly on nimbleness, stamina, adaptability over power and strength.

  6. #36
    Senior Contributor Dago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster
    I think I got it. Shi is all about manipulating and controlling momentum.

    Ronald Reagon realised the momentum of Soviet Union was losing its steam and decided to hasten its fall and prevent it from regaining steam.

    In the Indo-Sino war, I think Andy was trying to say that forcing India to actively defend its border will cause India to lose some of its steam in other areas, allowing China to catch up or pass and gain some form of advantage.

    In the analogy of football, it's sort of like this, once you're in the groove, you're hot. You are hitting on all cylinders and marching ahead, steamrolling everyone in the path. Sort of like Peyton Manning and Indianopolis Colts kicking ass all the way through its season but fell apart against the Steelers. It's the intangibles.
    Note; they first fell apart against the Chargers thanks to the unlimited amount of rush packages by Wade and the huge line up front opening up holes for Merriman/Phillips. I think Manning was sacked somewhere near 4 times in that game. It wasn't until then that Mannings weakness was exposed and coverages/rushes were made to upset his timing and rattle him a bit. Loved every bit of it seeing i'm from San Diego.

    Just thought i'd clarify that, eventhough it's a bit OT.

  7. #37
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    Thanks Blademaster, Shi is just a concept and general guidance if you will. It is not matter it works or not. According to Shi, one must view and act in all directions, all elements. Not just one.

    OT:

    Intead of KungFu, he got a calligraphic painting demo from the commander. It is very smart for Mukerjee to visit Lanzhou instead of either Xinjing nor Tibet. Lanzhou is the center of PLA defense in the entire region.



    Mukherjee visits sensitive Chinese military headquarters
    Beijing: Indian Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee Thursday visited a sensitive Chinese regional military headquarters that is responsible for guarding the territory bordering India and five other nations.

    Mukherjee's visit to the headquarters of the Lanzhou Military Region was one more sign of the growing closeness in the defence sphere of the two countries that fought a bitter border conflict 44 years ago.

    Breaking with protocol, Lanzhou commander Gen. Li Qianyuan personally received Mukherjee and escorted him to his office. Li also presented the minister with a traditional Chinese calligraphic painting he had himself executed.

    The inscription on the scroll read: "Carry on friendship in harmony and common prosperity - presented to His Excellency Minister of Defence Pranab Mukherjee by General Li Qianyuan in the hope that friendship between our two countries will last for ever."

    The Indian delegation was given a detailed briefing on the role and functions of the Lanzhou Military Area Command. This was followed by an interactive discussion between the Indian delegation and the officers of the Lanzhou military region on issues of mutual interest such as anti-terrorism, disaster management, training of military personnel, handling internal conflict situations and information warfare.

    Besides India, the Lanzhou region borders Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan, as also Pakistan Administered Kashmir.

    Lanzhou is the largest of China's military regions. Though sparsely populated, it is strategically important as it is home to the Lopnor nuclear research and missile testing facilities. The area encompasses the sensitive and oil rich Xinjiang province.

    Mukherjee's six-day official visit to China concluded Thursday. He had earlier visited Japan May 25-28.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dago
    Note; they first fell apart against the Chargers thanks to the unlimited amount of rush packages by Wade and the huge line up front opening up holes for Merriman/Phillips. I think Manning was sacked somewhere near 4 times in that game. It wasn't until then that Mannings weakness was exposed and coverages/rushes were made to upset his timing and rattle him a bit. Loved every bit of it seeing i'm from San Diego.

    Just thought i'd clarify that, eventhough it's a bit OT.
    Yes and the Colts had faced a similar package before, ie, the Steelers and yet managed to beat them.

    I think the death of the coach's son had something to do with it. It caused the momentum to be stalled since the son's suicide was affecting the team subconsciously.

  9. #39
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    The more I think about it, the more examples I can think of.

    The greatest example of employing Shi masterfully would be the British "divide and conquer" concept against India. Despite having numerical inferior numbers, they managed to defeat entire armies that were combat proven and hardened and ruled India for 200 years.

    Another example would be Mahatma Gandhi. He successfully employed nonviolence principles to defeat the British and drive them out. That is mastering the concept of Shi.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster
    The more I think about it, the more examples I can think of.

    The greatest example of employing Shi masterfully would be the British "divide and conquer" concept against India. Despite having numerical inferior numbers, they managed to defeat entire armies that were combat proven and hardened and ruled India for 200 years.
    They were also broke, from all that fighting against the fricking Mughals, and assorted Afghanis, and their own squabbles. The East India company, "seized the moment".

  11. #41
    Senior Contributor Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xinhui
    Thanks Blademaster, Shi is just a concept and general guidance if you will. It is not matter it works or not. According to Shi, one must view and act in all directions, all elements. Not just one.

    OT:

    Intead of KungFu, he got a calligraphic painting demo from the commander. It is very smart for Mukerjee to visit Lanzhou instead of either Xinjing nor Tibet. Lanzhou is the center of PLA defense in the entire region.

    LOL, I bet the commander picked that painting up from some nearby artist for a few yuan.

  12. #42
    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xinhui
    Regarding the concept of Shi.

    I am no philosopher so I can be wrong.
    ...
    The came concept also apply to a military campaign as a subset, once an army started collapse by the trend, no among with start-of-war weaponry can revise the situation, but another good leader such as Ridgeway in the case of Korea war of 1952. The trend is like a tidal wave. Battles or military actions are some items you can help to create a tidal wave, sometimes it works, some times it does not.
    You may be no philosopher but you've presented a militarized version of what I read in Malcom Gladwell's Book, "The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference"

    ...change so often happens as quickly and as unexpectedly as it does. For example, why did crime drop so dramatically in New York City in the mid-1990's? How does a novel written by an unknown author end up as national bestseller? Why do teens smoke in greater and greater numbers, when every single person in the country knows that cigarettes kill? Why is word-of-mouth so powerful? What makes TV shows like Sesame Street so good at teaching kids how to read? I think the answer to all those questions is the same. It's that ideas and behavior and messages and products sometimes behave just like outbreaks of infectious disease. They are social epidemics.
    http://www.gladwell.com/tippingpoint/index.html

    According to Gladwell, the Tipping Point is that magic moment when an idea, trend, or social behavior crosses a threshold, tips, and spreads like wildfire. Just as a sick individual in a crowded store can start an epidemic of the flu, so too can a small but precisely targeted push start a fashion trend or cause the popularity of a new restaurant to take off overnight or cause crime or drug use to taper off.
    http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...16346624&itm=1

  13. #43
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim Aquil
    You may be no philosopher but you've presented a militarized version of what I read in Malcom Gladwell's Book, "The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make a Big Difference"


    http://www.gladwell.com/tippingpoint/index.html


    http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...16346624&itm=1
    Mmmm, interesting. I've often thought of ideas as mental viruses, I must have a read.

  14. #44
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    Another example of Shi, although not masterful, is Ulysses Grant's meatgrinder battles and General Gap's Tet offensive. Both of them completely took out the momentum from their enemies despite their losses.

    It's sort of like pyrric victories or the classic example of the Romans losing three battles against the Greek King Pyric and yet they won the war.

  15. #45
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    I strongly disagree with Gen Vo Ngyen Gap's Tet as an example of Shi. It was AFTER the fact that he capitalized on the disgruntle American public. In actual fact, he did not predict it and everything he did in preparation for Tet was to repeat Diem Biem Phu at Kha Sanh. He certainly did not thought of the American public in his planning and he certainly did not planned on the American public reaction.

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