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Soviet vs. American Armies 1945

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  • #61
    Now it's sounds like a picnic.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by SRB
      E neko nas, super.Hvala.Ma idu mi na zivce stavovi mogli smo da sravnimo Ruse da smo hteli, pa sto nisu.Muda brate za to trebaju, jer Rusi su spremni da ginu a ovi placu kada im nekog olade u Iraku.
      Originally posted by kNikS
      Pazi ovako, ako imas nesto da kazes na srpskom pusti mi PM... inace - na engleskom. Propisi su propisi.

      A.. da se bas nesto slazem oko ovoga - ne bas.

      Sorry, TH, I'll translate this for you, if you want.
      Yes please do so.

      SRB, for future reference, please post a full translation at the same time, if you are going to use non-English words, phrases etc. Thanks! :)
      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by troung
        You fail to mention Fireflies, Comets, M-18s, M-36s and Archers all of which could kill Soviet armor. And that is of course leaving out M-4A4s, M-4A3-E8s, M-26s, Jumbo Shermans, airpower and of course American artillery which was judged to be far more responsive for tactical situations then Russian artillery.
        I'm sorry, I'll do better next time. ;)
        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

        Comment


        • #64
          In short - friendly bashing, that he don't like overexecive attitude that Russians sucks and that they have balls , read: much higher casualty tolerance.

          I told him that he should throw out PM in Serbian to me if he wants, otherwise in English - rules are rules (internal joke, citation from one awsome Serbian movie).

          BTW, it seems to be that this thread will soon develop in a prelude of great annual pissing contest on everything Soviet or US, depends on viewpoint.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by kNikS
            In short - friendly bashing, that he don't like overexecive attitude that Russians sucks and that they have balls , read: much higher casualty tolerance.
            I don't think that people are saying that the Soviets "suck" per se.
            It's just that he is trying to defend them at a particularly bad point in history and the more he insists, the more others will resist

            I don't quite comprehend that comment about the Soviets having balls/much higher casualty tolerance though.
            Is he saying they didn't have a higher tolerance? Or is he saying that the other members are making too much about it?

            Originally posted by kNikS
            I told him that he should throw out PM in Serbian to me if he wants, otherwise in English - rules are rules (internal joke, citation from one awsome Serbian movie).
            Thanks, really appreciate that :)
            Originally posted by kNikS
            BTW, it seems to be that this thread will soon develop in a prelude of great annual pissing contest on everything Soviet or US, depends on viewpoint.
            Yeah, probably true

            But it sure beats the hell out of the Great Indo-Pak Flamewar of 2006
            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by TopHatter
              I don't think that people are saying that the Soviets "suck" per se.
              It's just that he is trying to defend them at a particularly bad point in history and the more he insists, the more others will resist
              I won't oppose that. But there is also a tendention to diminsih things that are viable (although not necessarily his).

              Originally posted by TopHatter
              I don't quite comprehend that comment about the Soviets having balls/much higher casualty tolerance though.
              Is he saying they didn't have a higher tolerance? Or is he saying that the other members are making too much about it?
              Frankly, I'm not sure eather what both of you are talking about. LOL Language barrier I guess. Let's stay on original statement that Russians have balls and that they are ready to die for their country, which is undisputable.

              Originally posted by TopHatter
              Thanks, really appreciate that :)
              Yeah, probably true

              But it sure beats the hell out of the Great Indo-Pak Flamewar of 2006
              Unforatunately, I'll miss this one.

              Oh, don't think it's over yet. Dig your trenches fast and ask Colonel to give you his blue helmet - Asim is back in few days. ;)

              Good night. :)
              Last edited by kNikS; 23 May 06,, 09:04.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by kNikS
                Oh, don't think it's over yet. Dig your trenches fast and ask Colonel to give you his blue helmet - Asim is back in few days. ;)
                Oh it's over. At least for the WAB it is. ;)
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by SRB
                  122 mm gun on IS-2 and IS-3 is breakthrough gun, it destroy enemy front defence:bunkers,dig in weapons and infatry.It could kick Tiger but it wasn't build for that.
                  Assuming these tanks survive the American air power.

                  Originally posted by SRB
                  Someone said that trucks use gas?Think again.If you live in US you may not hear for diesel (very smart German) but trucks use diesel engine and diesel fuel which much simular to oil than gas.
                  I don't know. What did American Lend/Lease trucks use? Gasoline or diesel? Can anyone clarify?

                  Even then, using lower octane gasoline in aircraft engine can seriously degrade the performance. Soviet fighters would have a tough time against western fighters if they were forced to use lower octane gas.

                  Originally posted by SRB
                  Where USAF bomb tank formation with B-24 or B-17?
                  The break out at Normandy. The Allied high command thought they could use the heavies to obliterate German defenses so their own tanks can break out. Problem was the Germans didn't have a mass formation to bomb. Most were small pockets of infantry offering fierce resistance.

                  Soviet doctrine calls for massing armor and artillery along with infantry. They did that on the eastern front against the Germans. They were lucky because the Germans didn't have the type of air power the USAAF could offer.
                  "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    And in this fantasy of continuing WWII against the Sovs, either on defense or offense, don't forget we'd have the frikkin' Nazis on our side whether we wanted them or not.

                    Which just goes to show how politically silly (yet I agree endlessly fascinating) the possibility really was, short of a true unilateral nutcase going off on his own for awhile.

                    No matter what the strengths and weakness of either side, they were both tired. Very tired. If the Sovs had come West, they'd've been crushed easily. If the Allies had gone East, I believe they would have been lackluster and not very "hard-charging", and probably manhandled severely.

                    Adolf was burned in his bunker - the job was done for the Yanks. Time to go home (or to the Pacific, as the case may have been).

                    Now in 1948 when Stalin made his Sudetenland move, I think both sides were more willing (but maybe not as able?) to fight. I'd love to read a Red Storm Rising style novel of that era - does anything like that exist?

                    -dale

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by gunnut
                      Soviet doctrine calls for massing armor and artillery along with infantry. They did that on the eastern front against the Germans. They were lucky because the Germans didn't have the type of air power the USAAF could offer.
                      Nor the smarts to notice. German strategic and operational intel was laughably bad throughout the war.

                      -dale

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Not in Poland, or in France 1940, or in N Africa 1941.
                        "Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by sparten
                          Not in Poland, or in France 1940, or in N Africa 1941.
                          Poland was a surprise attack when Germans owned the initiative.

                          France...well...that answers the question.

                          North Africa was Rommel's work. He had the initiative early. He was kicked out of Africa after he lost the initiative and could never regain it.
                          "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by gunnut
                            Poland was a surprise attack when Germans owned the initiative.

                            France...well...that answers the question.

                            North Africa was Rommel's work. He had the initiative early. He was kicked out of Africa after he lost the initiative and could never regain it.
                            Moving away from sterotypes, which do not do the participants or you justice, facts are that in both 39' and 40' the German intel machine correctly assessed the Allied response; in the later they guessed that no attack was expected through the Ardennes and that the aim would be to stop the Germans in the low countries. In 41, Rommel was told the Brits/Commonwealth was streched thin and did not expect him to attack, and he did capturing lots of British troops and generals.

                            The german intelligence machine became poor post Stalingrad, but that was a disease of the German military as a whole.
                            "Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by sparten
                              Not in Poland, or in France 1940, or in N Africa 1941.
                              Yes it was. They rarely knew what the strengths arrayed (or not arrayed) against them were. The collapse of the French was a complete surprise, for instance.

                              The best example is Barbarossa itself. Not a single Nazi, staff officer, general, or oberhoofenwaffenlieben had correct estimates of the Soviet forces (quality or quantity) arrayed behind the front lines in Eastern Poland.

                              -dale
                              Last edited by dalem; 23 May 06,, 19:21.

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                              • #75
                                Russia vs US

                                Show me where the T-34 was not supposed to engage other tanks,im not being a snot or anything but i have never heard that,it certainly did engage other tanks and did well until Nazi Germany unleashed it's Tiger in my opinion one of the most powerful tanks of WW2.And speaking of logistics for the Soviet Union in 1945.lOOK at 1941 okay Nazi Germany has total air supremecy,better trained troops,better commanders,better organazation,yet they failed,1945 the Red army has been reborn since those scary days of 1941,so has the Red air force,your looking at a formidable opponent who has lost twenty million in the Great Patriotic war and is determined to free the motherland of all invaders.I still don't see a US victory,maybe but i just can't see it.Remember logistics means long supply columns and the Red air force's Sturmavick was a menace to German ground forces turning tanks into trash cans.Russia would again have the geographic advantage where if US forces did invade the motherland itself i believe the logistics war would favor the Soviets,

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