Now it's sounds like a picnic.
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Soviet vs. American Armies 1945
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Originally posted by SRBE neko nas, super.Hvala.Ma idu mi na zivce stavovi mogli smo da sravnimo Ruse da smo hteli, pa sto nisu.Muda brate za to trebaju, jer Rusi su spremni da ginu a ovi placu kada im nekog olade u Iraku.Originally posted by kNikSPazi ovako, ako imas nesto da kazes na srpskom pusti mi PM... inace - na engleskom. Propisi su propisi.
A.. da se bas nesto slazem oko ovoga - ne bas.
Sorry, TH, I'll translate this for you, if you want.
SRB, for future reference, please post a full translation at the same time, if you are going to use non-English words, phrases etc. Thanks! :)“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by troungYou fail to mention Fireflies, Comets, M-18s, M-36s and Archers all of which could kill Soviet armor. And that is of course leaving out M-4A4s, M-4A3-E8s, M-26s, Jumbo Shermans, airpower and of course American artillery which was judged to be far more responsive for tactical situations then Russian artillery.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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In short - friendly bashing, that he don't like overexecive attitude that Russians sucks and that they have balls , read: much higher casualty tolerance.
I told him that he should throw out PM in Serbian to me if he wants, otherwise in English - rules are rules (internal joke, citation from one awsome Serbian movie).
BTW, it seems to be that this thread will soon develop in a prelude of great annual pissing contest on everything Soviet or US, depends on viewpoint.
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Originally posted by kNikSIn short - friendly bashing, that he don't like overexecive attitude that Russians sucks and that they have balls , read: much higher casualty tolerance.
It's just that he is trying to defend them at a particularly bad point in history and the more he insists, the more others will resist
I don't quite comprehend that comment about the Soviets having balls/much higher casualty tolerance though.
Is he saying they didn't have a higher tolerance? Or is he saying that the other members are making too much about it?
Originally posted by kNikSI told him that he should throw out PM in Serbian to me if he wants, otherwise in English - rules are rules (internal joke, citation from one awsome Serbian movie).
Originally posted by kNikSBTW, it seems to be that this thread will soon develop in a prelude of great annual pissing contest on everything Soviet or US, depends on viewpoint.
But it sure beats the hell out of the Great Indo-Pak Flamewar of 2006“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by TopHatterI don't think that people are saying that the Soviets "suck" per se.
It's just that he is trying to defend them at a particularly bad point in history and the more he insists, the more others will resist
Originally posted by TopHatterI don't quite comprehend that comment about the Soviets having balls/much higher casualty tolerance though.
Is he saying they didn't have a higher tolerance? Or is he saying that the other members are making too much about it?
Originally posted by TopHatterThanks, really appreciate that :)
Yeah, probably true
But it sure beats the hell out of the Great Indo-Pak Flamewar of 2006
Oh, don't think it's over yet. Dig your trenches fast and ask Colonel to give you his blue helmet - Asim is back in few days. ;)
Good night. :)Last edited by kNikS; 23 May 06,, 09:04.
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Originally posted by kNikSOh, don't think it's over yet. Dig your trenches fast and ask Colonel to give you his blue helmet - Asim is back in few days. ;)“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by SRB122 mm gun on IS-2 and IS-3 is breakthrough gun, it destroy enemy front defence:bunkers,dig in weapons and infatry.It could kick Tiger but it wasn't build for that.
Originally posted by SRBSomeone said that trucks use gas?Think again.If you live in US you may not hear for diesel (very smart German) but trucks use diesel engine and diesel fuel which much simular to oil than gas.
Even then, using lower octane gasoline in aircraft engine can seriously degrade the performance. Soviet fighters would have a tough time against western fighters if they were forced to use lower octane gas.
Originally posted by SRBWhere USAF bomb tank formation with B-24 or B-17?
Soviet doctrine calls for massing armor and artillery along with infantry. They did that on the eastern front against the Germans. They were lucky because the Germans didn't have the type of air power the USAAF could offer."Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
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And in this fantasy of continuing WWII against the Sovs, either on defense or offense, don't forget we'd have the frikkin' Nazis on our side whether we wanted them or not.
Which just goes to show how politically silly (yet I agree endlessly fascinating) the possibility really was, short of a true unilateral nutcase going off on his own for awhile.
No matter what the strengths and weakness of either side, they were both tired. Very tired. If the Sovs had come West, they'd've been crushed easily. If the Allies had gone East, I believe they would have been lackluster and not very "hard-charging", and probably manhandled severely.
Adolf was burned in his bunker - the job was done for the Yanks. Time to go home (or to the Pacific, as the case may have been).
Now in 1948 when Stalin made his Sudetenland move, I think both sides were more willing (but maybe not as able?) to fight. I'd love to read a Red Storm Rising style novel of that era - does anything like that exist?
-dale
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Originally posted by gunnutSoviet doctrine calls for massing armor and artillery along with infantry. They did that on the eastern front against the Germans. They were lucky because the Germans didn't have the type of air power the USAAF could offer.
-dale
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Not in Poland, or in France 1940, or in N Africa 1941."Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell
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Originally posted by spartenNot in Poland, or in France 1940, or in N Africa 1941.
France...well...that answers the question.
North Africa was Rommel's work. He had the initiative early. He was kicked out of Africa after he lost the initiative and could never regain it."Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
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Originally posted by gunnutPoland was a surprise attack when Germans owned the initiative.
France...well...that answers the question.
North Africa was Rommel's work. He had the initiative early. He was kicked out of Africa after he lost the initiative and could never regain it.
The german intelligence machine became poor post Stalingrad, but that was a disease of the German military as a whole."Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell
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Originally posted by spartenNot in Poland, or in France 1940, or in N Africa 1941.
The best example is Barbarossa itself. Not a single Nazi, staff officer, general, or oberhoofenwaffenlieben had correct estimates of the Soviet forces (quality or quantity) arrayed behind the front lines in Eastern Poland.
-daleLast edited by dalem; 23 May 06,, 19:21.
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Russia vs US
Show me where the T-34 was not supposed to engage other tanks,im not being a snot or anything but i have never heard that,it certainly did engage other tanks and did well until Nazi Germany unleashed it's Tiger in my opinion one of the most powerful tanks of WW2.And speaking of logistics for the Soviet Union in 1945.lOOK at 1941 okay Nazi Germany has total air supremecy,better trained troops,better commanders,better organazation,yet they failed,1945 the Red army has been reborn since those scary days of 1941,so has the Red air force,your looking at a formidable opponent who has lost twenty million in the Great Patriotic war and is determined to free the motherland of all invaders.I still don't see a US victory,maybe but i just can't see it.Remember logistics means long supply columns and the Red air force's Sturmavick was a menace to German ground forces turning tanks into trash cans.Russia would again have the geographic advantage where if US forces did invade the motherland itself i believe the logistics war would favor the Soviets,
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