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  • World War III starts tommorow- BB question

    Question for Dick and Co:

    Scenario: Conventional global war.

    President orders immediate 'wartime emergency' reactivation of 2 'mobilization assets'.

    Most normal peacetime safety restrictions and any relevant union work rules that would impede construction, and blah, blah, blah can be overrode.

    I need a rough time estimate to activate 1 or both Iowas to:

    1) Ferry troops/transport: No armament/sensors but restored Phalanx CIWS, skeleton crew only.

    2) Limited original combat capability with 16" guns and Phalanx only(5" guns unmanned, most sensor systems non-restored)

    3) Operational to 1991 standards at time of reitrement.

    Thanx. :)

  • #2
    If you only knew how riddled the Navy is with micro-management and congressional directives you wouldn't ask for a Battlship with 1991 grade equipment and firepower.

    When we put the Battleships up for inactivation, our marching orders were to do so that they could be reactivated again in 45 days AS IS.

    But that AS IS no longer counts. Though the Radar and Radio antennas may be the same, you can count on their receivers and repeaters being totally different by now. Even the Coaxial cables and Waveguides may be a different and REQUIRED design by now. The BLACK BOX people will insist on it. Senator Klaxonhorn will insist on some other modification. Admiral Neversail will insist on yet another modification. Secretary Knownothing will insist on something else.

    I have given estimates to another group concerned with possible reactivation and potential for further modernization. But I have to change them year by year. So you can pick any number between 10 and 100, change it to weeks instead of days and you may be just as accurate as anyone else.
    Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, i understand that's going to be the normal drill(as kelly johnson said in his book skunkworks, "NEVER work with the navy"), that's why i said the president is operating under true wartime congressional authority.

      This future hypothetical president looks at his secretary of the navy, and he says, "SecNav, get those damned ships at sea in the soonest possible timeframe, i dont want any excuses. Anyone that has a problem with it you tell them to call me so i can explain it to them."

      IOW, with WWII type urgency.

      1) Troop transport- only CIWS manned.
      2) big gun platform- 16" guns and CIWS only manned. No air or surface search radars.
      3) Circa 1991 capabilities(better phraseology?).

      I'm really most interested in the first option.

      How long just to make it ready to make way with a skeletal crew and a 20kt speed capability to embark thousands of light infantry troops(and whatever of their equipment would fit) and be used as a troop transport, a la the UK's use of the QE2 during the Falklands conflict.

      You know, in a real emergency. When you're handed the job you're told get it done right away, that the 'request' comes from the very top, and the SecNav will run interference.
      If kit is needed to fit, it's RUSHED to you right away....your men work round the clock with wartime urgency, corners are cut whenever possible, etc, etc, etc.

      Just some rough but realistic estimates would be nice. :)

      Comment


      • #4
        On another vien, what HAPPENED to the black boxes that were already on the ship? As a reserve asset shouldn't they have been maintained so that we could just "plug everything back in" and it's like stepping into a 1991 time capsule?

        Isn't doing it any other way for a reserve asset kind of stupid?

        I realize the ABL TLAMs no longer exist, but the Harpoon systems and all the old radar systems and all that good stuff should all still work as it did back then shouldnt it? Or do they strip all that stuff when they put something in class B?

        I'm really curious about this.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by M21Sniper
          On another vien, what HAPPENED to the black boxes that were already on the ship? As a reserve asset shouldn't they have been maintained so that we could just "plug everything back in" and it's like stepping into a 1991 time capsule?

          Isn't doing it any other way for a reserve asset kind of stupid?

          I realize the ABL TLAMs no longer exist, but the Harpoon systems and all the old radar systems and all that good stuff should all still work as it did back then shouldnt it? Or do they strip all that stuff when they put something in class B?

          I'm really curious about this.
          Everything in the Main Communications Center on Main Deck was stripped out of all ships as some of the equipment is highly classified or was used on other ships. Combat Engagement Center retained most of its consoles that included Tomahawk and Harpoon launch controls because other ships were going over to VLS that required a different console.

          For example, with a Tomahawk Armored Box Launcher, it takes 35 minutes to program in the target, landmarks to target, double check, triple check, etc. Then when the launcher raises to launch angle of 35 degrees it's still another 35 seconds for final check before launch. That also gives time for anybody on deck time to boogie out of there as the booster burns at 6,000 degrees Kelvin and is 20% hydrochloric acid. (Also, somebody seems to like the number 35).

          Plus there's no room to put a contingent of troops. Most of the ship's hull below 2nd deck is taken up by main propulsion rooms, ammo magazines, auxiliary machinery rooms, air conditioning plants, turret barbettes, etc. Forward of bhd 50 is some berthing but it's mostly storerooms. Between bhd 151 and 166 is just enough space to cram in 45 Marines. Aft of bhd 166 is the steering gear room, some berthing but mostly work spaces such as the print shop and the brig. Yes. They still have a brig aboard.

          Isn't doing it any other way for a reserve asset kind of stupid?

          There is a RIGHT way of doing things.

          There is a WRONG way of doing things.

          Then there is the NAVY way.

          At one time we tried to keep reserve ships up to date. When I was an apprentice shipfitter back in the late 50's I worked on several Destroyers in Dry Dock 1 putting in steel foundations for the latest electronic equipment in Upper Sonar. But as electronics advanced and some engineer in frustration threw his project in a glass of water - and it sort of worked thus producing the transistor, it was just not cost effective to keep upgrading MOTHBALLED ships every two or three years. If needed, we would rip out everything that was too old and rebuild the compartments, foundations and power supplies to suit the latest and greatest gizmos.

          Truthfully, since I have been "asked" by certain "official" types of people, I am not priviledged to give you my latest WAG (Wild Ass Guess). In a nutshell, it wouldn't take TOO long to reactivate the Wisconsin and just a tad longer to reactivate the Missouri. Forget New Jersey and Iowa. I have my reasons for saying so but it's getting late and I want to download the latest bikini shots of Eva Longoria.

          But keep this in mind. Several years ago somebody (with nothing else better to do) came up with a list of the most complicated things modern man has ever built. A warship was number 2 just below Apollo and any other spacecraft. A Swiss watch was around number 10. A warship is a structural device designed to float on water, contains electrical systems, electronics systems, hydraulic systems, compressed air systems, fuel feed systems, weapons systems, habitability systems (feeding, sleeping, recreation, training) for the crew PLUS redundancy of all systems for survivability.
          Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

          Comment


          • #6
            So.......cRusty, when you headed up North? I hadn't seen you on the boards for a few days so I thought you were already gone.

            You left out "Mechanical Systems" in your listings. There's a lot of redundancy in engineering, mechanical pumps with electrical pumps as backups just for an example....

            So...... give us an update on your book.... (this commercial has been sponsored by RAL Publishing)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RustyBattleship
              Truthfully, since I have been "asked" by certain "official" types of people, I am not priviledged to give you my latest WAG (Wild Ass Guess). In a nutshell, it wouldn't take TOO long to reactivate the Wisconsin and just a tad longer to reactivate the Missouri. Forget New Jersey and Iowa. I have my reasons for saying so but it's getting late and I want to download the latest bikini shots of Eva Longoria.
              What do you mean exactly by "Forget Iowa" ?

              Comment


              • #8
                What do you mean exactly by "Forget Iowa" ?

                They (whomever "they" are) cut the entire radar platform and topmast off the ship to get it under the Highway 680/780 bridge. After welding the platform back on for museum esthetics, Iowa will basically be Land Locked.
                Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RAL's_pal?
                  So.......cRusty, when you headed up North? I hadn't seen you on the boards for a few days so I thought you were already gone.

                  You left out "Mechanical Systems" in your listings. There's a lot of redundancy in engineering, mechanical pumps with electrical pumps as backups just for an example....

                  So...... give us an update on your book.... (this commercial has been sponsored by RAL Publishing)
                  If all goes well, heading up Tuesday morning. Got new tires on the Dakota and had the rear brake cylinders replaced. But got a fluid leak by the left rear fender I need to have checked out first thing Monday.

                  Sorry that I left out Mechanical Systems. I know they were your passionate love. So I thought I'd let you remind us.

                  The book is ready to go but have to revise the list of photos and figures since I got so many in lately that were better than my original collection. Found a great WW II photo of Iowa entering Dry Dock I and those photos you provided are outstanding.
                  Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RustyBattleship
                    The book is ready to go
                    You've found a publisher for your book? NaCl Publishing Ltd ?
                    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Geeze cRusty, that's a lot of work done on the truck considering it's only a few years old. I looked up the spreadsheet and the Iowa entered drydock 12/45, so you have a picture of that event or was there another time, not listed? BTW, the Nevada shot is from 1943, not 1945. You can tell it's 1943 by the condition of the surrounding area, especially bldg 132 (my shop).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well i'd like to thank you guys for your answers....such as they were. :)

                        WRT using an Iowa as a troop transport, my thinking was that the ship has berthing for a tad under 2000 in total(1500+ normal compliment), including crew...so if you were running a 'skeletal crew' of only 400 (or whatever skeletal is- which is another great question, lol) that would free up berthing for a heavily reinforced bn of infantry at least....you can REALLY jam a lot of infantrymen in a compartment...it's amazing the living conditions we'll tolerate, lol. We really DO learn to sleep standing up.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RustyBattleship
                          Plus there's no room to put a contingent of troops.
                          Dick, what about the USN's Operation Magic Carpet?
                          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "Dick, what about the USN's Operation Magic Carpet?"

                            "Assigned to troop transport duty on 2 November 1945-as part of the "Magic Carpet" operations Washington went into dockyard hands on that day, emerging on the 15th with additional bunking facilities below and a crew that now consisted of only 84 officers and 835 men. Sailing on 16 November for the British Isles, Washington reached Southampton, England, on 22 November.

                            After embarking 185 army officers and 1,479 enlisted men, Washington sailed for New York. She completed that voyage and, after that brief stint as a transport, was placed out of commission, in reserve, on 27 June 1947. Assigned to the New York grou p of the Atlantic Reserve Fleet, Washington remained inactive through the late 1950's, ultimately being struck from the Navy list on 1 June, 1960. The old warrior was sold on 24 May 1961, and was scrapped soon thereafter. "

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rickusn
                              "Assigned to troop transport duty on 2 November 1945-as part of the "Magic Carpet" operations Washington went into dockyard hands on that day, emerging on the 15th with additional bunking facilities below and a crew that now consisted of only 84 officers and 835 men.
                              Figure almost all gun crews could be disembarked, which would free up quite a bit of physical space, supplies etc.
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                              Comment

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