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Thread: Another JF-17 test flight, Pak Air Chief Marshal as Chief Guest.

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajaybhutani
    the last i knew PAF didnt have BVR capability whatsoever.. even if the PAF-f16 can fire bvr missiles.. the americans didnt give them bvr missiles to use..
    but i am equally amazed to know that Jf17 can use only one.. can u please give the source of this info.. a lot of this will depend on the capability of the radar... i.e. if it can handle only one we should know which radar will be used..

    Chineese SD10 isnt ready yet.. and with the secrecy chineese keep with their defence programs i dont think we will know this soon....of course russian source is closed due to indian hands.. the only direction they can see is to US.. and they definitely wont get source codes to integrate US missiles into JF17.. ( if they are getting AMRAAM.. at all)..
    Exactly the point I was trying to make!
    Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samudra
    SD-10 is not operational.



    So what engine is going to power these aircrafts?
    Russian or Chinese?

    If its Chinese, is the engine operational?
    The engine is Russian RD-93.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...china/fc-1.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JF-17_Thunder

    Asim,

    RD-93 is the engine used in JF-17. I doubt Russia would supply these directly to Pakistan. Though the engine could reach Pakisan through China.
    Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.

  3. #18
    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    I think the Russians want to sell, they just don't want to appear as the bad guys to the Indians.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim Aquil
    I think the Russians want to sell, they just don't want to appear as the bad guys to the Indians.
    india russia are long term partners.... with a lot of money flowing into russian kitty every year in the form of weapons purchase( planes.. ships .. aircraft carriers.... tanks.. ).. joint ventures and their products( like PJ10..) development money( like irbis).. they wont piss the indians off for just a few million dollars.. ( after all how much will 200 RD93 cost.. just a few hundred million dollars).. they earn much much more from india every year..... quite frankly they can afford not to have excellent relations with paksitan.. but moving back on relations with india costs them money is short term and long term..

  5. #20
    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    There's no doubt on my mind that Pak foreign policy will try to trumpet its bettering relations with Iran, Gwadar port and India leaning towards the US.

    And no doubt the Chinese-Russian equation would come into play too. Still have to hear something definite on all these issues.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus
    The engine is Russian RD-93.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...china/fc-1.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JF-17_Thunder

    Asim,

    RD-93 is the engine used in JF-17. I doubt Russia would supply these directly to Pakistan. Though the engine could reach Pakisan through China.
    the russians have said yes to RD93 to china but the engine cannot be exported further without permission.. i.e. they still havent officially cleared RD93 for PAF JF17.. then theres no guarantee of missiles as SD10 isnt ready and others arent available..
    furthermore believing that all this can be handled and deliveries in 2007.. aerospace engineers in this and other forums have stated that it needs a lot of testing.. not possible to even finish testing in 2007 with a single prototype.. leave aside weapons integration and induction into PAF add to it the uncertainities like engine, missiles etc..

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim Aquil
    There's no doubt on my mind that Pak foreign policy will try to trumpet its bettering relations with Iran, Gwadar port and India leaning towards the US.

    And no doubt the Chinese-Russian equation would come into play too. Still have to hear something definite on all these issues.

    Trumpet in front of whom? Bettering relations with Iran will hardly help Pakistan because of the US. And what will become of that relation once the US decides to invade Iran.
    Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim Aquil
    Has the RD-93 been denied officially to Pakistan?
    right question will be has it been officially released for paksitan.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus

    Trumpet in front of whom? Bettering relations with Iran will hardly help Pakistan because of the US. And what will become of that relation once the US decides to invade Iran.
    same as that with taliban during afganistan invasion

  10. #25

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    Technical Specs of the aircraft leave a lot to be desired. I wonder why PAF thinks the A/C would be able to counter the IAF.

    It is 80-85% as capable as a Block F-16.

    BTW, Does the IAF's SU-30MKI Flanker has a helmet mounted cueing system? Or does any other aircraft in IAF's inventory?
    Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.

  11. #26
    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    Russia badly doesn't want an Iran invasion.

    Pakistan's stance on Iran is very similar to Russia's. We don't want an invasion on Iran, but believe Iran should abide by the rules of the NPT that it signed.

    What I'm saying is that the bettering relations will help Pakistan with Russia... of course there are OTHER factors as I mentioned. Gwadar can give Russia a much desired warm water access (peacefully this time not like the Afghan invasion). Chinese-Russian equation can play in Pak's favor too.

    And then if we can raise enough doubts on the US-India partnership, we might just be able to squeeze at least some engines out of Russia.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajaybhutani
    same as that with taliban during afganistan invasion
    Self-control is the chief element in self-respect, and self-respect is the chief element in courage.

  13. #28
    Senior Contributor Samudra's Avatar
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    Has the RD-93 been denied officially to Pakistan?
    Ivanov has made it clear.
    No engines for Pakistan.


    Good luck with Chinese Liyang engines.

    Gwadar can give Russia a much desired warm water access
    It has been given away to the Chinese already.

  14. #29
    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    They're actually just building it.

    It will be used by Pakistan. And its main purpose is transit of goods. Thats why everywhere in Pakistan you'd see big billboards stating "Dubai being built in Pakistan" as Gwadar ads.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus
    Technical Specs of the aircraft leave a lot to be desired. I wonder why PAF thinks the A/C would be able to counter the IAF.

    It is 80-85% as capable as a Block F-16.

    BTW, Does the IAF's SU-30MKI Flanker has a helmet mounted cueing system? Or does any other aircraft in IAF's inventory?
    in a war with india the only real and credible defence for paksitan is nukes..
    nothing will stand in air in 2 days.. in sea in a week..
    land battle will be feirce.. but air support can make is quite cheap for india..
    in all its gonna be a paksitani general pressing a nuke button in a weeks time

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