Questions about Carrier vulnerability

[2DREZQ]

OK, This has been bugging me for quite some time. Based on non-classified (no help to our enemies!) info:

1. How vulnerable are our Carrier Battle Groups, and to what sort of attack/weapons? I'm not talking about a WWIII scenario, just a SHTF confrontation with (pick your favorite bad actor/country).

2. What actions (by our Navy or Congress) have enhanced/degraded the carriers safety and effectiveness.



I've always been inspired by, and proud of our CVN's (they make everybody else look kinda cheesy!), but they DO look like awfully big targets...

[TopHatter]

1. How vulnerable are our Carrier Battle Groups, and to what sort of attack/weapons? I'm not talking about a WWIII scenario, just a SHTF confrontation with (pick your favorite bad actor/country).

Depends on what you want to do to it.
If you want to simply cripple it for awhile, then nail it with a suicide boat while she's in a foreign port, like USS Cole. Probably not going to be as easy, since the Navy doesn't allow carriers to put into to just any port.

Another option would be to try and nail it while at sea, like that dhow that hit the JFK. (Not an attack, one hopes, since it was "successful", at least in hitting the ship. Otherwise, just a really f-ed up accident)

However, if you want it gone forever, then torpedo it. Torpedoes will remain the single most fearsome and (relatively) inexpensive ship-killing weapon for the forseeable future. Why? You can probably get 'em pretty easily by comparison.

It doesn't even have to be a fancy-pants (and expensive!) Mark 48 ADCAP either. Look what killed the General Belgrano. An old workhorse straight runner.

All you need is a submarine, a trained and motivated skipper/crew, a full load of reliable torpedoes and the political will expend all of the above in your attack.
You don't need scarce-as-hen's-teeth SS-N-19 or SS-N-22 AShM's and an equally expensive and scarce launching platform.

It's not all as simple as that, but that's definitely the way I'd sink any ship on the high seas.

[Parihaka]

Depends on what you want to do to it.
If you want to simply cripple it for awhile, then nail it with a suicide boat while she's in a foreign port, like USS Cole. Probably not going to be as easy, since the Navy doesn't allow carriers to put into to just any port.

Another option would be to try and nail it while at sea, like that dhow that hit the JFK. (Not an attack, one hopes, since it was "successful", at least in hitting the ship. Otherwise, just a really f-ed up accident)

However, if you want it gone forever, then torpedo it. Torpedoes will remain the single most fearsome and (relatively) inexpensive ship-killing weapon for the forseeable future. Why? You can probably get 'em pretty easily by comparison.

It doesn't even have to be a fancy-pants (and expensive!) Mark 48 ADCAP either. Look what killed the General Belgrano. An old workhorse straight runner.

All you need is a submarine, a trained and motivated skipper/crew, a full load of reliable torpedoes and the political will expend all of the above in your attack.
You don't need scarce-as-hen's-teeth SS-N-19 or SS-N-22 AShM's and an equally expensive and scarce launching platform.

It's not all as simple as that, but that's definitely the way I'd sink any ship on the high seas.

In fact to go into the realms of science fiction, all you really need is an un-manned submersible weapons platform. It can sit on the bottom of the sea, get woken up when you send it co-ordinates, and move in at speed and fire a spread of straight runners. Inexpensive and effective.

[-{SpoonmaN}-]

You dont need to sink anything to put the CBG out of action, at least in it's primary role. All you need is a good hit on the flightdeck, the control tower or the elevators of the Carrier and they're out of business for a while.
If you hit the tower you also have the possibility of decapitating the Group for a while. As the thread 'Russian Aircraft Buzz USS Kittyhawk' showed, in the right circumstances (they were rather particular in that incident) and with some luck a relatively unsophisticated attack could pose a real threat to the operation of a carrier.
As for torps, one of our Collins class boats got a firing solution on a USN Carrier a few yeas ago during RIMPAC. Not sure if thats any help to other Naval Forces though, since the Collins class are state of the art for diesel-electric boats.

[gunnut]

All the above scenarios are based on the fact that you have actually located the CBG. Locating a 100,000t behemoth at sea with her escorts is actually not that easy. USN is quite good at hiding that mobile air field. They've been doing that against the Soviets for 40 years. They have some experiences in that field.

[TopHatter]

All the above scenarios are based on the fact that you have actually located the CBG. Locating a 100,000t behemoth at sea with her escorts is actually not that easy. USN is quite good at hiding that mobile air field. They've been doing that against the Soviets for 40 years. They have some experiences in that field.

Correct, which is why it's easier to nail it whilst in port with some kind of suicide boat

[sparten]

For a military force, a a submarine. 4 good Mk 48 ADCAP type torpedos will do the trick.
About that dhow, where exactly did it hit the Kennedy? There was a rumour online that it hit the hull near the mags. I don't believe it, would the mags be below the water line, but if it is true and that thing had about 1000 Kg of TNT, it may well have been HMS Barham.

[TopHatter]

For a military force, a a submarine. 4 good Mk 48 ADCAP type torpedos will do the trick.

Like I said, ADCAPS would probably be overkill, but definitely a good way to ensure hits.

About that dhow, where exactly did it hit the Kennedy? There was a rumour online that it hit the hull near the mags. I don't believe it, would the mags be below the water line, but if it is true and that thing had about 1000 Kg of TNT, it may well have been HMS Barham.

Not sure as to the exact location, but you can safely assume that the magazines on those carriers are buried deep inside the hull, with lots of "stuff" between them and the outer hull.

[Francois]

As for torps, one of our Collins class boats got a firing solution on a USN Carrier a few yeas ago during RIMPAC. Not sure if thats any help to other Naval Forces though, since the Collins class are state of the art for diesel-electric boats.

For your information, even I praise the 471 very high, they are far not the first nor the last to succes such a "shoot".
I can tell almost ten submarine forces who managed that "record".