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  • If comparing it to a pathogen Islam is a disease that eats the population from the inside out.
    So is Xtianity
    And every other religion.

    But we werent talking about other religions.....we were talking about Islam.

    It aint buttercoated, but it IS the truth. Religions are so succesful because typically they subvert nations from the inside via conversion, not from the outside via conquest.(Islam of course, has done BOTH).

    And yeah, your comments on my board that elicited that comment did strike me as appologist and fifth column. Do you feel you that i am out of line to express my right to free speech on my own damned board, or do you just think you're above answering questions about your statements/comments after YOU are the one that has made sure everyone knows your religious affiliation?

    Apparently you do.

    Maybe it's the real LUNA that is coming out.(who can say, as for the first 2+ years i knew you i never understood a single post you made).
    Last edited by Bill; 30 Mar 06,, 02:10.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ray
      Confed,

      Here is an example of the moderate that you mentioned.

      Is this bloke of a Minister a moderate?
      ]
      Honestly, it depends, what form of Jihad is being taught? The "blow up all infidels" form, or the "we can and will defend ourselves" form?
      No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
      I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
      even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
      He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

      Comment


      • Confed,

        A good try! ;)

        Oh sure, he meant self cleansing!

        How very wrong of me to think othrwise!

        A suicide bomber cleanse himself totally by getting rid of all the negative influences of the world permanently!

        Jihad par excellence.
        Last edited by Ray; 30 Mar 06,, 03:04.


        "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

        I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

        HAKUNA MATATA

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Confed999
          Honestly, it depends, what form of Jihad is being taught? The "blow up all infidels" form, or the "we can and will defend ourselves" form?
          My sig. The number of attacks after 9/11. Is there still any doubt left about the "type of" jehad?
          I rant, therefore I am.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ray
            Confed,

            A good try! ;)

            Oh sure, he meant self cleansing!

            A suicide bomber cleanse himself totally by getting rid of all the negative influences of the world!

            Jihad par excellence.
            I'm pretty sure you're right, but not having seen the actual lessons being taught I cannot know for sure. Again, my only point is that there are those who do not believe all of these things, and we should not lump them in with those who do. I don't want to see a replay of the events concerning the Japanese, and Americans who just happened to be of Japanese decent, in this country, as I will have no choice but to turn against my own to defend as many as I can, for as long as breath still passes my body, keeping the "relocation camps" empty.
            No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
            I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
            even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
            He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

            Comment


            • Confed,

              The WAB has made the best selection in selecting you as a Moderator.



              "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

              I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

              HAKUNA MATATA

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ray
                Confed,

                The WAB has made the best selection in selecting you as a Moderator.

                Thanks Ray, I truly appreciate the support.
                No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
                I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
                even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
                He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

                Comment


                • Originally posted by shek
                  Bulgar,

                  I hadn't received any comments on Harmony from you,
                  I actually haven't replied to any of the good points coming up:

                  1) U.S. spending in Iraq
                  2) Democrats vs. Republicans on war-readiness or war-willingness
                  3) Islam (Good or Evil) or (FWN's Beyond Good and Evil?)
                  4) Ray asking someone to grip someone else by the gonads.

                  I will get around to all of this, and project Harmony, but a few days ago I got really busy. You see, it seems like I still have to do work in school even though its spring of my senior year. Damn work.

                  In time, all will be revealed.

                  I am also deriving amusement from this thread. It has become quite a sparring match.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bulgaroctonus
                    In time, all will be revealed.
                    I await with bated breath.
                    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                    Leibniz

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by parihaka
                      I await with bated breath.
                      Eating raw shrimp again? You're gonna get sick!
                      No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
                      I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
                      even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
                      He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Confed999
                        Eating raw shrimp again? You're gonna get sick!
                        Or he is turning into a Japanese!


                        "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                        I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                        HAKUNA MATATA

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Harpo & Groucho
                          Eating raw shrimp again? You're gonna get sick!
                          Or he is turning into a Japanese!

                          Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The puns and jibes of outrageous buffoonery, Or to take umbrage against a sea of tittering, And by opposing end them? To jest: to mock; No more; and by a joke to say we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural japes That flesh is heir to, 'tis a limmerick Devoutly to be wish'd.
                          And with that I bid you a fond adieu, as I apportion my two hours sleep.
                          Parihaka exits stage left.
                          In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                          Leibniz

                          Comment


                          • http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/we...ea&oref=slogin

                            In Kabul, a Test for Shariah

                            By ANDREA ELLIOTT
                            Published: March 26, 2006
                            THE news that a man in Afghanistan might face a death sentence for converting to Christianity brought cries of outrage around the world last week.

                            In Washington, the matter of Abdul Rahman commanded attention at the highest levels. President Bush said he was "deeply troubled." Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Afghanistan's President, Hamid Karzai, to urge a "favorable resolution," her spokesman said. In Kabul, the judge in the case said he would resist interference.

                            More quietly, the case struck a chord among Muslim scholars in the West who have been immersed in a debate about the adaptability of Shariah, or Islamic law, to the modern era.

                            Mr. Rahman, 41, stands accused of apostasy, or ridda, the act of renouncing one's faith. Apostasy is a grave sin in Islam, and according to classical Shariah, it warrants a punishment of execution. But Islamic laws, including those governing the treatment of apostates, were developed as early as the eighth century against a vastly different political and social backdrop.

                            Progressive Muslim scholars argue that the meaning of those laws has been lost over time: When the laws were created, they say, apostasy was seen as the equivalent of treason. "To be a Muslim was to live in an Islamic state or empire, so the presumption was you were not only becoming the enemy of God but the enemy of the empire," said John L. Esposito, a professor of religion and international affairs at Georgetown University.

                            Muslim jurists who support the execution of apostates often point to a hadith — a tradition attributed to the Prophet Muhammad in the seventh century — in which he is recorded as saying that a person who changes religions should be killed.

                            But while the Koran mentions ridda, it never calls for the execution of apostates. There is no record of the prophet killing an apostate himself. And executions of apostates have been rare in Islamic history.

                            "The common argument is that it clearly contradicts the Koran, which says there should not be compulsion in religion," said Khaled Abou El Fadl, an Islamic law expert and professor at the University of California, Los Angeles.

                            What complicates the debate is that Islam has no central doctrinal authority, no Vatican to issue an ultimate decree. And while Shariah is the product of human interpretation, it is also seen as divine law, which prompts many Muslims to argue against change.

                            Still, only a handful of apostasy executions are known to have occurred in Muslim-majority countries in recent decades.

                            An official of the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, an advisory body created by Congress, said he knew of only four such cases: one in Sudan in 1985; two in Iran, in 1989 and 1998; and one in Saudi Arabia in 1992.

                            The notion that classical Islamic law calls for the execution of apostates is widely known but often ignored in predominantly Muslim countries. Most have not adopted official laws against apostasy.

                            IT'S like the issue of slavery," said Bernard Haykel, an Islamic studies professor at New York University. "Slavery exists in Islamic law and most Muslims have decided to ignore it. It's what I call collective amnesia."

                            Yet apostasy has a deep cultural resonance among Muslims, making a case like Mr. Rahman's an opportunity for religious conservatives with political agendas, Mr. Haykel said.

                            "Islamists will always use cases like this one to gain political mileage and credibility," he said. "They become the champions of Islamic law, of Islam. They can present themselves as authentic Muslims."

                            The case of Mr. Rahman, whose conversion was reported to the authorities by family members after he sought custody of his children from his parents, has been widely characterized as a test for Afghanistan's American-backed government.

                            Afghanistan's new Constitution, like Iraq's, makes room for both Shariah and secular law, but it is still unclear how successfully they will coexist. The Afghan Constitution states that "no law shall contravene the tenets and provisions of the holy religion of Islam," but it also declares that the state will observe the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

                            "Iraq has more vigorous protections in its Constitution for human rights than Afghanistan, yet still it has a provision that no law should be contrary to Islam," said Tad Stahnke, policy director of the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom. "It hasn't been tested. But it will."

                            A recent report by the commission, which examined the constitutions of 44 predominantly Muslim countries, found that most included some protections for religious freedoms. Those protections were most common in countries where no role is provided for Shariah in the constitution.

                            The commission still lists Afghanistan as one of the world's 10 declared Islamic states. But even under the Taliban, which meted out harsh justice to women and others — including execution — there were no known apostasy executions, several experts said.
                            "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by shek
                              But even under the Taliban, which meted out harsh justice to women and others — including execution — there were no known apostasy executions, several experts said.
                              Well, at least they had that much going for them.
                              Guess the Taliban wasn't such a bad bunch after all.
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bluesman
                                ...and even if this thread gets locked, I think there is simply nothing that is as important as this is to the world's present situation.

                                Islam must decide its place in the world, and if that vision doesn't include the rest of us, then the rest of us must decide Islam's place in history.
                                U have my vote.

                                Comment

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