Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What if: Western Allies vs Russia- 1945

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by scotsboyuk
    Has Operation Unthinkable been mentioned yet?
    Pardon?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lwarmonger
      Pardon?
      I presume not then. It was a top secret plan drawn up by the British military to prepare for the possibility that the Soviets would carry on past Eastern Europe and invade Western Europe. Obviously the plan was never put into action.
      "I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

      Comment


      • Well now that you brought it up you could at least be so kind as to share what knowledge of the operation you might have.

        Silly scotsman. ;)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by M21Sniper
          Well now that you brought it up you could at least be so kind as to share what knowledge of the operation you might have.

          Silly scotsman. ;)
          Gosh, I shall have to have a rummage for the information, but what I can remember off the top of my head is as follows:

          It was envisaged that Stalin might have ordered his armies to advance upon Western Europe, thus precipitaing a war between the U.S.S.R. and Britain and France and posisbly the U.S. too. Operation Unthinkable was designed to use exisitng military resources to halt and then throwback such an attack. Casualties were projected to be very high as far as I recall and it was assumed that the U.S. may have to use nuclear weaponry in a bid to defeat the Soviet armies.

          I could be wrong, but the Soviets may have had a similar plan to prepare for an invasion by the Western Powers.
          "I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

          Comment


          • " I could be wrong, but the Soviets may have had a similar plan to prepare for an invasion by the Western Powers."

            I'm sure they did.

            It's hard to think of a more institutionally paranoid nation than the Soviet Union/Russia.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by M21Sniper
              It's hard to think of a more institutionally paranoid nation than the Soviet Union/Russia.
              West brainwash machine works even better nowadays.
              Nice to know.
              Mega-experts everywhere

              Tick-tack, tick-tack...
              Last edited by Prosto ILya; 06 Mar 05,, 18:32.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Prosto ILya
                West brainwash machine works even better nowadays.
                Nice to know.
                Mega-experts everywhere

                Tick-tack, tick-tack...
                Nobody's saying the Russians don't have a reason to be paranoid. They've been invaded like 8 jillion times over the centuries. But it is a real consideration when studying Russian/Soviet/Russian politics and culture.

                -dale

                Comment


                • It depends on definition of “paranoia”.
                  “Healthy desire for safety” or “delusional (oh, what a word!) schizophrenia-alike feeling of constant threat”.



                  If you don not have a paranoia, it does not mean that they are not watching you.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by M21Sniper
                    " I could be wrong, but the Soviets may have had a similar plan to prepare for an invasion by the Western Powers."

                    I'm sure they did.

                    It's hard to think of a more institutionally paranoid nation than the Soviet Union/Russia.
                    Well don't count out USA. They had a plan to invade Britain. They had a plan to invade India.

                    Those are called contigency plans. Nothing wrong with planning if you got the time for it. Every true superpower has contigency plans for invading most countries.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Blademaster
                      Well don't count out USA. They had a plan to invade Britain. They had a plan to invade India.

                      Those are called contigency plans. Nothing wrong with planning if you got the time for it. Every true superpower has contigency plans for invading most countries.
                      Shoot, back in the 30s, they (the USA) had plans for invading EVERYBODY, including Canada and Mexico. Not so much as a contingency plan, but mostly to train people on how to think such things through. (and the odd chance than an enemy would have invaded Canada and intended to continue on through to the US I suppose....not that it was physically possible for any country to do that)
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                      Comment


                      • Ilya,
                        I respect your defense of the Soviet Union and the Soviet fighting man.
                        The Soviet Union unquestionably had the longest, hardest, most savage fight of the war. The casualty rates are staggering and quite inconceivable to the modern eye.

                        However....
                        Some of your points simply do not have a basis in fact, particularly in regard to the Red Navy.
                        As M21 Sniper has pointed out, there was simply no force on Earth that could match the United States Navy. All other navies combined could not have stopped it, which is silly to even think about it, since practically the only navies still afloat were staunch US allies.
                        The numbers simply cannot be disputed. What is even more amazing is that as 1945 progressed, many shipbuilding programs were slowed or halted altogether when it was apparent that the war was almost over.
                        The Western Allies were putting jet aircraft (the British Meteor for example) into the air in increasing numbers even before VE-Day.
                        Even brand new piston aircraft like the F8F Bearcat were being introduced in large numbers.
                        The USSR had no strategic bomber aircraft to speak of, unless you count the Tu-4 copies of the B-29.

                        The facts speak for themselves. The Soviet Union would have been overmatched, outnumbered and outgunned, just like Nazi Germany was.
                        This is not to that the Soviets would not have gone done fighting. Far from it.
                        It would have been a horrific conflict, probably punctuated by atomic weapons, something that the USSR had no defense against, and no means of replying in kind.
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • "Even brand new piston aircraft like the F8F Bearcat were being introduced in large numbers."

                          The Bearcat made the performance of the legendary Hellcat look like that of a Piper Cub in comparison.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by M21Sniper
                            "Even brand new piston aircraft like the F8F Bearcat were being introduced in large numbers."

                            The Bearcat made the performance of the legendary Hellcat look like that of a Piper Cub in comparison.
                            Yeah, but the real future was in the Meteors. We probably could have started turning out our own versions of the Me-262 before too long as well (with captured German scientists assisting, of course). With either of those models, we would have swept the sky clean of Soviet aircraft with minimal losses to ourselves. Then it's time for the bombers to start destroying Soviet tank divisions!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lwarmonger
                              Yeah, but the real future was in the Meteors. We probably could have started turning out our own versions of the Me-262 before too long as well (with captured German scientists assisting, of course). With either of those models, we would have swept the sky clean of Soviet aircraft with minimal losses to ourselves. Then it's time for the bombers to start destroying Soviet tank divisions!
                              Are you implying that the Germans would have helped us fight the Sovs? ;)

                              -dale

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by dalem
                                Are you implying that the Germans would have helped us fight the Sovs? ;)

                                -dale
                                Was there ever any question about who the real enemy was for them?

                                Besides, after the war the US and Russia split the scientists, but had the war continued among erstwhile allies.... well, let me just say that many of the final battles of the war consisted of German armies trying to break out of Soviet encirclement to reach American and British lines. Fight to the finish. And those scientists would not wish to remain behind at the tender mercy of the NKVD!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X