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Thread: What if: Western Allies vs Russia- 1945

  1. #136
    Officer of Engineers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    And would control this new tanks and aircrasts? Untrained boys, that never smelled gunpowder?
    About the same as yours. Your casualty rates ain't nothing to boast about, leaving the fact that most of your troops in any given battle greener than those of the Americans bringing to the field.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    Far more experience? In the beginning of the war USSR subs were much less advanced (almost full copy of a Germa older subs). Still, they managed to sink Nazi ships and evade sophisticated mines. At the end of the war, many subs were reconstructed and upgraded – and experience of their crews was more than high.
    It wasn't that difficult. We're not talking modern sonars here. The Soviets were at a disadvantage naval wise though. Would have been arrayed against the 3 most powerful navies on earth (USN, RN, RCN) and the RCN won the Battle of the Atlantic against the Kreigsmarine.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers
    About the same as yours. Your casualty rates ain't nothing to boast about, leaving the fact that most of your troops in any given battle greener than those of the Americans bringing to the field.
    Boast? Can you show my post and my “boast” about our casualties? I really want to read it. USSR fought with greater Nazi armies. Therefore, our casualties are more than explainable.

    A 17 old Russian solder, who went to War in 1941, at the end oh the war had as much experience as a veteran. They were younger than “than those of the Americans bringing to the field” but far more experienced. Blood bought experience.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    Boast? Can you show my post and my “boast” about our casualties? I really want to read it. USSR fought with greater Nazi armies. Therefore, our casualties are more than explainable.
    It was an attempt to explain to you that most of your veteran army ain't veteran and in fact, far greener than the Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    A 17 old Russian solder, who went to War in 1941, at the end oh the war had as much experience as a veteran. They were younger than “than those of the Americans bringing to the field” but far more experienced. Blood bought experience.
    How many 17 year olds lived to 1941 to tell about it? In the Battle of Berlin, you were still throwing 17 year olds into the fight. No way you can tell me those were veterans. 2 million dead at Stalingrad, 600,000 casualties from the Vulga to Berlin wasn't going to leave you alot of veterans. Per capita, the Allies had far more veterans than the Soviets.

  4. #139
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    Bottom line is that USSR save Poland nation as a nation. And enslaved nothing (too many talks about slavery – personal experience, maybe). If you imagine USSR and Warsaw Block only by USA-movies and modern stories of it’s ex-members.
    Tell that to Ukraine, where millions died because of Soviet Communism. If they weren't slaves, then they would have been free to keep their grain, and you know, NOT STARVE.

    I'm sick of you Russians trying to just ignore the brutal history of Soviet Russia. No ammount of whiming or wishing is going to change that history. So just accept it, Soviet Communism was a failure and a moral travesty.

  5. #140
    Banned Prosto ILya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers
    It was an attempt to explain to you that most of your veteran army ain't veteran and in fact, far greener than the Americans.
    Greener? They were young in age. But not in combat skills.


    [/QUOTE]How many 17 year olds lived to 1941 to tell about it? In the Battle of Berlin, you were still throwing 17 year olds into the fight. [QUOTE=Officer of Engineers]

    Source! Can you show me a link, please? I show this link to my friends in Russia. In Berlin’s Battle USSR did not thrown 17 old kids. It is true, that if not of idiotic order of Stalin, we could
    take Berlin with far lesser casualties. But 17 old? No, not true.

    I told before, I will tell again. Great losses, tougher enemy made USSR armies veteran. To 1944 despite horrific casualties we had well equipped and battle prepared armies. I don not know what is written in a West books about it – but please, if you have a link, I really want to read.

  6. #141
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    7 million dead soldiers, how many vetrens could possibly left?

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Praxus
    Tell that to Ukraine, where millions died because of Soviet Communism. If they weren't slaves, then they would have been free to keep their grain, and you know, NOT STARVE.
    Golodomor?
    Tell this to Ukranian NKVD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Praxus
    I'm sick of you Russians trying to just ignore the brutal history of Soviet Russia. No ammount of whiming or wishing is going to change that history.
    You are sick? It’s okay, it happens. Breath slowly and take a few glasses of water. Soviet History (As any country) had enough brutal moments, but it also had glorious and wondrous moments. And this will never be forgotten by our people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Praxus
    So just accept it, Soviet Communism was a failure and a moral travesty.
    Of course it was a failure. The idea of a Communism is a Utopia, humanity is not ready yet.

    Besides why should I “accept” anything. I never was a communist. So?

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Praxus
    7 million dead soldiers, how many vetrens could possibly left?
    7 million?
    Were did you get this number?
    I wish it was 7 million.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    Golodomor?
    Tell this to Ukranian NKVD.
    NON-SEQUITOR.

    Soviet History (As any country) had enough brutal moments, but it also had glorious and wondrous moments. And this will never be forgotten by our people.
    Soviet Russia is responsible for over 20 million deaths caused by purges, assasinations, wars it started, and state orchestrated famines. The only country on the face of the earth to out due this was Communist China.

    Of course it was a failure. The idea of a Communism is a Utopia, humanity is not ready yet.
    Your right, Russia was socialist. Communism is a system of anarchy where the power of the socialist state is divided among the "people". In other words it's a floating abstraction void of any relavence to reality.

    Besides why should I “accept” anything. I never was a communist. So?
    You said that we should should stop talking about the soviets enslaving people. What I'm saying is that you need to accept the fact that the Soviets did enslave eastern europe. It's a simple fact of reality.

  10. #145
    Officer of Engineers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    Greener? They were young in age. But not in combat skills.
    Bullsh!t! At what age do they start seeing combat? 5 years old? The USSR sufferred some 11 million military dead. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that their replacement have not seen any combat at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    Source! Can you show me a link, please? I show this link to my friends in Russia. In Berlin’s Battle USSR did not thrown 17 old kids. It is true, that if not of idiotic order of Stalin, we could
    take Berlin with far lesser casualties. But 17 old? No, not true.
    My source? Colonel Maslov of then what used to be their Fulda Gap forces. Son, don't try to crap this on me. Unlike you, I am a veteran. Did the Soviets actively recruit 17 year old? No, they did not. Did they refused their service? Not a chance in hell.

    Go to a veteran meeting. Do the math.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    I told before, I will tell again. Great losses, tougher enemy made USSR armies veteran. To 1944 despite horrific casualties we had well equipped and battle prepared armies. I don not know what is written in a West books about it – but please, if you have a link, I really want to read.
    Your words, son.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    ]And would control this new tanks and aircrasts? Untrained boys, that never smelled gunpowder?
    Just proving to you that alot of your boys have never smelled gunpowder either. When a veteran gets killed in combat, who replaces him? A boy who has never smelled gunpowder.

  11. #146
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    And again…

    Quote Originally Posted by Praxus
    NON-SEQUITOR.
    Басня, состоящая из одной морали – кто лев, тот и прав.


    Quote Originally Posted by Praxus
    Soviet Russia is responsible for over 20 million deaths caused by purges, assasinations, wars it started, and state orchestrated famines. The only country on the face of the earth to out due this was Communist China.
    Well, not 20 millions . More. Still, a historical lesson is always valuable. So. Let’s dig deeper. What about American Indians genocide? Vietnamis ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Praxus
    Your right, Russia was socialist. Communism is a system of anarchy where the power of the socialist state is divided among the "people". In other words it's a floating abstraction void of any relavence to reality.
    Once again – Communism is an Utopia of equality of all people. Humanity is not ready yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Praxus
    You said that we should should stop talking about the soviets enslaving people. What I'm saying is that you need to accept the fact that the Soviets did enslave eastern europe. It's a simple fact of reality.
    Whoa! I said, that I disagree that this was “slavery”. USSR did not “enslaved”. It took unforgivably harsh control. And allowed military power to dictate it’s will to people of other countries. Very popular way for some countries nowadays.
    Last edited by Prosto ILya; 01 Mar 05, at 17:19.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers
    Son, don't try to crap this on me
    O, here it goes… What kind of crap? That in Berlin were no untrained kids?

    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers
    Unlike you, I am a veteran
    Veteran of WW2 ? Great and sincere respect and Gratitude to you then, sir. (no sarcasm, i hope this is clear)

    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers
    Did the Soviets actively recruit 17 year old? No, they did not. Did they refused their service? Not a chance in hell.
    There were 17 old solders. My source – not Colonel Maslov, but my own grandfather (All of my oldest male relatives fought in WW2 and this is not crap or ******** or cheep lie). He was 17, when in 1942 went to war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers
    Just proving to you that alot of your boys have never smelled gunpowder either. When a veteran gets killed in combat, who replaces him? A boy who has never smelled gunpowder.
    To 1945 there were almost no Soviet solder who never smelled gunpowder. Accordinf to our documentary movies and historical books. And that is not communist propaganda.


    /
    Strange... word "Bull(skip)hit" looks like this *****.
    I thought it's not rude word.
    Hm... Век живи век учись - Live for century, Learn for century.
    Last edited by Prosto ILya; 01 Mar 05, at 17:29.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    Well, not 20 millions . More. Still, a historical lesson is always valuable. So. Let’s dig deeper. What about American Indians genocide? Vietnamis ?
    So your saying 20 million dead is a "valuable... historical lesson"? There's nothing to learn from, if you don't know that killing 20 million innocent people is wrong, then one would have to question your sannity.

    Oh and please, don't try and change the subject.

    Once again – Communism is an Utopia of equality of all people. Humanity is not ready yet.
    Communism is nothing more then primitive tribalism. It seeks to destroy the national Government and put in it's place miniture "Workers Councils". Furthermore, it completely ignores the facts of reality.

    Whoa! I said, that I disagree that this was “slavery”. USSR did not “enslaved”. It took unforgivably harsh control. And allowed military power to dictate it’s will to people of other countries. Very popular way for some countries nowadays.
    Oh so you mean the people had no control in the matter and we're completly under the command of the government.

    Hmm sounds fimiliar. Ohhh thats right, SLAVERY!

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    O, here it goes… What kind of crap? That in Berlin were no untrained kids?
    That is quite debatable but relative to the initial Red Army during the start of Operation BARBAROSA, I agree with you. However, 17 year olds were in that battle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    Veteran of WW2 ? Great and sincere respect and Gratitude to you then, sir. (no sarcasm, i hope this is clear)
    Not WWII - Yugoslavia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    There were 17 old solders. My source – not Colonel Maslov, but my own grandfather (All of my oldest male relatives fought in WW2 and this is not crap or ******** or cheep lie). He was 17, when in 1942 went to war.
    What makes you think the Soviets stop that practise. Again, the Soviets did not try to recruit 17 year olds but no one turned them away from joining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    To 1945 there were almost no Soviet solder who never smelled gunpowder. Accordinf to our documentary movies and historical books. And that is not communist propaganda.
    Give me a break! There were 40 divisions in Siberia and at least half never smelled gunpowder and those divisions that did only did so at the regiment level. They were perhaps the best trained divisions in the Red Army at the time but they were never blooded the way those European armies were. And I am referring to this before the Manchurian campaign against the IJA.

  15. #150
    Banned Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prosto ILya
    Bottom line is that USSR save Poland nation as a nation. And enslaved nothing (too many talks about slavery – personal experience, maybe). If you imagine USSR and Warsaw Block only by USA-movies and modern stories of it’s ex-members.
    Oh well. Enjoy your version of history.

    -dale

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