Originally posted by Garry
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Best Tank of WWII
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Originally posted by M21SniperActually it did literally take about 5 shermans to kill one panther.
A platoon of shermans even had a popular tactic where the plt tries to race around the enemy tank and get behind it to shoot into it's engine compartment.
The execution of this tactic usually resulted in the destruction of 4 out of the 5 shermans in a WWII armored platoon. I saw a full color reenactment on the military channel once(With real shermans and a real tiger!), it was really neat. :)
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Originally posted by M21Sniper"Nope."
So then you're a moron.
I'm done here. I've posted my stats, you've posted yours, people are free to draw their own conclusions.
You have been purposely being cutsie and poking me with a stick in this whole thread(or you are an innatentive moron, which i know to be false), and i do not appreciate it.
PS: You don't understand your own chart.
Maybe you really are a Moron...
-dale
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Originally posted by dalemMost of them.
-dale
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Originally posted by Eddy01741Ya, had the russians had good tactics like the rest of the allies (britain, USA), they wouldn't of lost as many tanks. But that wouldn't happen in a million years cause most of the russian army were conscripts and they were from probably a mandatory draft. THis also meant the only morale they had was the 'war fever'.
-dale
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Originally posted by Eddy01741Ya, had the russians had good tactics like the rest of the allies (britain, USA), they wouldn't of lost as many tanks. But that wouldn't happen in a million years cause most of the russian army were conscripts and they were from probably a mandatory draft. THis also meant the only morale they had was the 'war fever'.
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Originally posted by Wraith601Of 10,000 Soviet tanks on the Western border at the outset only about 1,400 were of the the modern KV8 and T-34 type. The others were various older models and bore the brunt of the massive Red Army tank losses.
But Germans did not have that many modern tanks in their forces at begining of Barbarosa. Pazer IV was introduced in 1937 and did not yet become most massive tank as it would in years later. So the backbone of the German forces in Barbarossa were Panzer II and Panzer III and less than 600 tanks were Panzer IV. We both know what a crap were Pazer II and III, which counted for remaining of 3300 tanks available for Barbarossa.
These could be matced by five thousands of BT-26 which is quite comparable with the Panzer II and III crap - the backbone of German tank forces in 1941. It already exceeds 3300 tanks which Germany had at the begining of Barbarossa against USSR..... with 580 Panzer IV against 1400 T-34 and KVs.
So USSR by numbers looked good before Barbarossa went on and all those 1400 tanks were stupidly lost in few month.....
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Originally posted by Eddy01741Ya, had the russians had good tactics like the rest of the allies (britain, USA), they wouldn't of lost as many tanks. But that wouldn't happen in a million years cause most of the russian army were conscripts and they were from probably a mandatory draft. THis also meant the only morale they had was the 'war fever'.
Soviet industry was producing few thousand tanks a month.... it was hard to populate them with trained crews.
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Originally posted by GarryYes you are right..... actually I found the figure which I read in some articles before. It was 1800 T-34 and KVs..... OK it is not a big difference. Some hundreds of modern tanks were on far east.... OK even with your figure of 1400 modern tanks Red Army's tanks were a formidable force.
But Germans did not have that many modern tanks in their forces at begining of Barbarosa. Pazer IV was introduced in 1937 and did not yet become most massive tank as it would in years later. So the backbone of the German forces in Barbarossa were Panzer II and Panzer III and less than 600 tanks were Panzer IV. We both know what a crap were Pazer II and III, which counted for remaining of 3300 tanks available for Barbarossa.
These could be matced by five thousands of BT-26 which is quite comparable with the Panzer II and III crap - the backbone of German tank forces in 1941. It already exceeds 3300 tanks which Germany had at the begining of Barbarossa against USSR..... with 580 Panzer IV against 1400 T-34 and KVs.
So USSR by numbers looked good before Barbarossa went on and all those 1400 tanks were stupidly lost in few month.....
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I'm just saying, if all thier tank crews weren't drafted young guys that had little training, then it woulda been much better. I'm not saying that the tank crews had enough experience to use/know better tactics. I'm just basically saying, if, u put UK tank crews inside the T-34/85 they woulda done much better than how the russian recruits did.
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Originally posted by Eddy01741I'm just saying, if all thier tank crews weren't drafted young guys that had little training, then it woulda been much better. I'm not saying that the tank crews had enough experience to use/know better tactics. I'm just basically saying, if, u put UK tank crews inside the T-34/85 they woulda done much better than how the russian recruits did.
It's a cruel reality of war. When you meet superior hardware with inferior hardware, you will need numbers to overcome the difference. That number is human lives."Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
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Originally posted by Wraith601That doesn't prove that the T-34s loss ratios were significantly skewed because of high losses early on by any means. Lot's of the 1,400 modern tanks were KV series, not T-34.
Soviet T-34s losses were mostly due to lack of training and tactical cooperaion in 1941-1943, and heavy urban fighting in 1945.
By August 1942 only 10% of tank crews of those who were in service in January 1941 survived. Most of the 1941 crews were killed or prisonned.
Yet Soviet tank force grew from 1800 modern tanks in 1941 to around 5,000 in 1942..... where do you think they got the new crews from? The new crews were recruited mainly from farm tracktor drivers and re-trained artillery operators.... they had less than 3 month training before being sent to combat. I remember reading in history books that 1942 and early 1943 was an absolut peak of T-34 losses, while 1944 was quite decent..... and then there was massive loss of T-34 tanks in last month of war - April...... due to rush to Berlin. But these were not tank to tank losses but tank to mines/infantry losses.
It is important to see for the context of comparison. For example Polish and Czech forces fighting in Soviet Army had 10 times less losses of their T-34s...... as many of their crews were professional tankers from their defeated armies. Both had extensive fighting in 1944 and 1945...... yet their losses to enemy tanks were quite small. Everytime Polish T-34s met Panthers or Tigers they retreated under cover of Polish antitank artillery following them closelly.
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