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  • #46
    Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
    Empty Weight is around 18,000 kg.
    Four tons havier than F-15 + twice more fuel + "stealth" airframe.

    Huh.. Interesting...

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Defcon 6

      Yeah, your done. Go take a nap. China does indeed have the largest air force in terms of sheer numbers. China has some 4,000 fighter aircraft and 6,500 total aircraft. Making it the largest air force in the world.
      When did i talk about China's airforce? Quote me.


      Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
        Don't waste your times guys. This is the same person that can't say anything better than "your in denial" when he can't make a good counterargument. Its honestly funny. I wouldn't waste brainpower on someone like him.
        In your case i wouldn't want to waste brainpower on anything, you have a severe lack of it. And there is no counterargument i can make to the absense of an argument from your side. So then you say that "F-22 is better because i want it to be" disregarding all the evidence i gave you, yes i can say that you are indenial because you are.


        Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by lurker
          Four tons havier than F-15 + twice more fuel + "stealth" airframe.

          Huh.. Interesting...
          Uh, do you ever even look at specs of an aircraft or do you just pull these out of thin air? Here's the empty weight:

          31,700 lb (14379 kg). Now either you need to go back to 3rd Grade and relearn math or actually learn to back up your facts with actual statistics.

          In your case i wouldn't want to waste brainpower on anything, you have a severe lack of it. And there is no counterargument i can make to the absense of an argument from your side. So then you say that "F-22 is better because i want it to be" disregarding all the evidence i gave you, yes i can say that you are indenial because you are.
          You my friend need to read the thread better. I offered a counterargument against your article and all you did was say this:

          "Poor simulation, no AWACS for F-15Cs, the radar of F-15C does not use the same anti-stealth technologies in their radars Russian does, or which is more probable somebody pulled this out of their ass (i am not going to say you did it, it seems too well written for someone of your intellect). I can name a thousand reasons. Either way you simply can't refute any of what i posted, i doubt you even read all of it. It doesn't matter what the cockpit looks like, you can't see the microchips used if you look at the cockpit. Grow up and stop acting like you're twelve. I am not going to try to reason with you, you are too deep in your fantasy world, reasoning with you is pointless. Funny thing is that you're the only one who doesn't realize it. And thats refering to everyone, including those who oppose your views and those who support them."

          I reply with this:

          "Its halarious how much you show of true intelligence. I do ask you, where did you get that assumptions from? In the bathroom toilet after a number 2? And exactly how do you conclude that this is BS? Its funny how you assume that all links to counter whatever you say are usually BS, even ones like these (I could see you being suspicious on tech links but there is really nothing to lie about on that). And yes I did tell you about the avionics on the inside, 2 Cray Supercomputers. I'm not sure about you, but most experts consider that a lot of processing power. I'm not going to argue with someone that can't make any good counterarguments for their life and have to ignore someone when they can't win. Its a pitty. Also if I was truely making so many pointless arguments, why do people still debate with me and not ignore me? Maybe because they have something on it. I'll let you ponder that question yourself."

          What happened to your reply? Can't find an argument over this? I would shred the rest of your article but considering that you are in affect ignoring me (whatever happened to that? Forgot?) I won't waste my time. Want more examples of my so-called "denial"? I'll absolutely show you.

          Comment


          • #50
            Just a note, China doesn't have the largest AF. It is America:

            Over 7,000 Combat Aircrafts in service right-now. Just want to clarify that up.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
              Uh, do you ever even look at specs of an aircraft or do you just pull these out of thin air? Here's the empty weight:

              31,700 lb (14379 kg). Now either you need to go back to 3rd Grade and relearn math or actually learn to back up your facts with actual statistics.
              Yes, I still can substract 14300 out of 18000. Got 3700 kg =~ 4 metric tonns.

              You got something different?

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by lurker
                Yes, I still can substract 14300 out of 18000. Got 3700 kg =~ 4 metric tonns.

                You got something different?
                Oops my bad, I thought you said 4 times the F-15 in weight. I admit my fault there. Apoligies.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                  You my friend need to read the thread better. I offered a counterargument against your article and all you did was say this:

                  "Poor simulation, no AWACS for F-15Cs, the radar of F-15C does not use the same anti-stealth technologies in their radars Russian does, or which is more probable somebody pulled this out of their ass (i am not going to say you did it, it seems too well written for someone of your intellect). I can name a thousand reasons. Either way you simply can't refute any of what i posted, i doubt you even read all of it. It doesn't matter what the cockpit looks like, you can't see the microchips used if you look at the cockpit. Grow up and stop acting like you're twelve. I am not going to try to reason with you, you are too deep in your fantasy world, reasoning with you is pointless. Funny thing is that you're the only one who doesn't realize it. And thats refering to everyone, including those who oppose your views and those who support them."

                  I reply with this:

                  "Its halarious how much you show of true intelligence. I do ask you, where did you get that assumptions from? In the bathroom toilet after a number 2? And exactly how do you conclude that this is BS? Its funny how you assume that all links to counter whatever you say are usually BS, even ones like these (I could see you being suspicious on tech links but there is really nothing to lie about on that). And yes I did tell you about the avionics on the inside, 2 Cray Supercomputers. I'm not sure about you, but most experts consider that a lot of processing power. I'm not going to argue with someone that can't make any good counterarguments for their life and have to ignore someone when they can't win. Its a pitty. Also if I was truely making so many pointless arguments, why do people still debate with me and not ignore me? Maybe because they have something on it. I'll let you ponder that question yourself."

                  What happened to your reply? Can't find an argument over this? I would shred the rest of your article but considering that you are in affect ignoring me (whatever happened to that? Forgot?) I won't waste my time. Want more examples of my so-called "denial"? I'll absolutely show you.
                  Eh...you can't shred anything you have demonstrated that quite clearly. Also your so called argument, about the tests done against F-15s, as i said in my reply F-15s didn't have the anti-stealth radar that Russian can put on its jet fighters, once again read the mid section of the article. Why people debate you? You annoy them too much, they try to make you go away by slamming your so called argument but then you just deny everything and go ahead with your rantings until they do infact quit the argument and move on.


                  Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Either way, i am not trying to say that F-22 is not the best, it is the only 5th generation fighter outthere, i am just trying to point out that everything has its flaws and not everything on the marketing brochure is to be taken as solid truth (the stealth capabilities of F-22).

                    What i am also trying to show you is that Russian aircraft ARE infact some of the best in the world, they use modern avionics, modern sensors, modern everything, you don't even need me to know that all you need to do is do a quick google search. By what i am outraged is by the fact that a few of view (Burning and Defcon) take stabs at Russian technology saying that it is douzens of years behind while that it is simply not true, and i mean sometimes the arguments you make are so ridiculus its hard not to react, for example Burning's cockpit argument. What does it matter what the cockpit looks like? You don't like the color? Does the black plastic casing for everything make a cockpit more advanced? Because i mean in all other respects Sukhoi cockpits feature all the same stuff the cockpits of F-16 or F-15 feature, you got LCD screens, your got your stick and throttle, you got your GPS navigation software and other types of advanced software. This is my point Russian tech is not years behind, its close, behind in some aspects, ahead in others and the competition between our two great nations for past 60 years has been the sole driving force of progress on both sides of the curtain. Think of how much we can accomplish if we work together? Look at how much we are already accomplishing by working together, the NASA rocket that will carry data collecting probe to Pluto was in fact powered by Russian RD-180 boosters, that are cheap, reliable, and 5 times as strong as the American boosters of the same size. There are plenty of examples of cooperation, look Boeing is doing R&D in Russia, cooperation with Russian companies, the only other place it is doing R&D on such a large scale is in seattle, and thats the ONLY other place on earth.
                    Last edited by Rusky; 19 Jan 06,, 23:53.


                    Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                      Oops my bad, I thought you said 4 times the F-15 in weight. I admit my fault there. Apoligies.
                      nm. happends.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Rusky
                        Eh...you can't shred anything you have demonstrated that quite clearly. Also your so called argument, about the tests done against F-15s, as i said in my reply F-15s didn't have the anti-stealth radar that Russian can put on its jet fighters, once again read the mid section of the article. Why people debate you? You annoy them too much, they try to make you go away by slamming your so called argument but then you just deny everything and go ahead with your rantings until they do infact quit the argument and move on.
                        I ask again, how could you know that? It never said anything in that. I'm quite interested. I'm not allowing you to maneuver around this like about everything else by your accusations. Keep on accusing me, I'm just waiting for some straightforward answers. Also do you notice that the contents in a post are usually half or near half flaming in content?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Rusky
                          Either way, i am not trying to say that F-22 is not the best, it is the only 5th generation fighter outthere, i am just trying to point out that everything has its flaws and not everything on the marketing brochure is to be taken as solid truth (the stealth capabilities of F-22).

                          What i am also trying to show you is that Russian aircraft ARE infact some of the best in the world, they use modern avionics, modern sensors, modern everything, you don't even need me to know that all you need to do is do a quick google search. By what i am outraged is by the fact that a few of view (Burning and Defcon) take stabs at Russian technology saying that it is douzens of years behind while that it is simply not true, and i mean sometimes the arguments you make are so ridiculus its hard not to react, for example Burning's cockpit argument. What does it matter what the cockpit looks like? You don't like the color? Does the black plastic casing for everything make a cockpit more advanced? Because i mean in all other respects Sukhoi cockpits feature all the same stuff the cockpits of F-16 or F-15 feature, you got LCD screens, your got your stick and throttle, you got your GPS navigation software and other types of advanced software. This is my point Russian tech is not years behind, its close, behind in some aspects, ahead in others and the competition between our two great nations for past 60 years has been the sole driving force of progress on both sides of the curtain. Think of how much we can accomplish if we work together? Look at how much we are already accomplishing by working together, the NASA rocket that will carry data collecting probe to Pluto was in fact powered by Russian RD-180 boosters, that are cheap, reliable, and 5 times as strong as the American boosters of the same size. There are plenty of examples of cooperation, look Boeing is doing R&D in Russia, cooperation with Russian companies, the only other place it is doing R&D on such a large scale is in seattle, and thats the ONLY other place on earth.
                          No its not only that but also why don't you look at the specs of the radar I gave you on it. Also do you want me to also provide you with processing powers of each aircraft to further my argument on the avionics?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                            No its not only that but also why don't you look at the specs of the radar I gave you on it. Also do you want me to also provide you with processing powers of each aircraft to further my argument on the avionics?
                            I did, but those specs were for F-22, not for F-18, also if you keep in mind all the combat implications then the radar say SU-37 uses is just as practically potent. And even the F-22 radar does not give it the lock on without being seen capability (i am not talking about LPI i am talking about the fact that at its lock-on range SU-37 or 30MKI's radar will be able to know F-22s position, if you disregard the stealth and since we are not comparing Su-37 with F-22 but actually with F-18 or F-15 both of which are not stealth airplane then you see what i am saying right?).
                            But hey, give me the computer data, i'd love to have that info.


                            Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by The_Burning_Kid
                              I ask again, how could you know that? It never said anything in that. I'm quite interested. I'm not allowing you to maneuver around this like about everything else by your accusations. Keep on accusing me, I'm just waiting for some straightforward answers. Also do you notice that the contents in a post are usually half or near half flaming in content?
                              How do i know this? Quite simply by the fact that F-15C could not detect the F-22, that is how i know that it does not use the anti-stealth technology available for the Russian aircraft.

                              Here read this:

                              55Zh6-1 and 1L13-3 radar:

                              Both radar function in the meter-wave band makes it invulnerable to homing and antiradar missiles effective in other wavebands. Secondly, the radar can detect so-called "invisible" aircraft, including STEALTH technology planes. Indeed, this aircraft's invisibility is based on its special shape, which produces an extremely small signal return. In the meter-wave band used in radar technology, an aircraft's size is commensurate with wavelength, and its shape is no longer important. The "invisibility" of such aircraft is also due to their radio-absorbent coating.


                              Also read the rest of the mid section of the article i posted, it explaines the anti-stealth radar technology in a bit of a greater detail. Both radar by the way were tested in 1992 and 1993.
                              Last edited by Rusky; 20 Jan 06,, 00:28.


                              Путин: Надо отделить мух от мяса.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Rusky
                                I did, but those specs were for F-22, not for F-18, also if you keep in mind all the combat implications then the radar say SU-37 uses is just as practically potent. And even the F-22 radar does not give it the lock on without being seen capability (i am not talking about LPI i am talking about the fact that at its lock-on range SU-37 or 30MKI's radar will be able to know F-22s position, if you disregard the stealth and since we are not comparing Su-37 with F-22 but actually with F-18 or F-15 both of which are not stealth airplane then you see what i am saying right?).
                                But hey, give me the computer data, i'd love to have that info.
                                First off, like I said, the F-18's radar is similar in performance to the AN/APG-77 so that does work. First off, the ranges are quite different and LPI mean Low Probability of Intercept, meaning that it is extremely hard to intercept its radar and know its tracking you. As for computer data, sure:

                                http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...027-afpn01.htm

                                Although it doesn't give the name or the capability, but we can assume it is far better considering that it is being designed for service in Sept 30 2006.

                                How do i know this? Quite simply by the fact that F-15C could not detect the F-22, that is how i know that it does not use the anti-stealth technology available for the Russian aircraft.

                                Here read this:

                                55Zh6-1 and 1L13-3 radar:

                                Both radar function in the meter-wave band makes it invulnerable to homing and antiradar missiles effective in other wavebands. Secondly, the radar can detect so-called "invisible" aircraft, including STEALTH technology planes. Indeed, this aircraft's invisibility is based on its special shape, which produces an extremely small signal return. In the meter-wave band used in radar technology, an aircraft's size is commensurate with wavelength, and its shape is no longer important. The "invisibility" of such aircraft is also due to their radio-absorbent coating.


                                Also read the rest of the mid section of the article i posted, it explaines the anti-stealth radar technology in a bit of a greater detail. Both radar by the way were tested in 1992 and 1993.
                                I would like to know how do you know that this actually works? Is there any flight data on it? Any actual sources that are respectible. Doubt so. Its interesting, you somehow think to know that the US doesn't already know about these radars and yet is designing them. Do you work for the USAF's top-secret programs that you know that they dont' have it? Doubt so.

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