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  • #16
    Originally posted by Simullacrum
    Could you Please clarify with the reasoning to why you not impressed by this ship..??
    This is the Most Advanced and Deadliest Ship ever built to date..!!!
    Apart from the ground brakeing RADAR Technology which like sniper has stated no-one else has, and to which is un-jamable with todays tech..!! It has some awsome firepower.....armed with 48 Aster missiles with 40lb warheads each, each can stop the fastest enemy jet 60 miles away...do some reaserch and read up on PAMMS as well u may be enlighten to as why it has such firepower..!!!
    Also read up on the SMAPSON RADAR system...!!!

    Or r u the type of person that cause it aint American it aint worth it or anygood..???
    Nah, you wont find many here that relies on that thought.

    I myself would like to see her up close for a good look at her. Who knows if she turns up in Philly any time soon I'll get pics of her coming up the river. Or if allowed tour her while shes moored here. It happens alot but not so sure about them letting anybody tour the RN's newest toy. :) But if possible i'll post the pics.
    In the past we have has DDG's and FFG's here just stopping in with no tours allowed. All under heavy guard ofcoarse.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 31 Jan 06,, 15:55.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Dreadnought
      Nah, you wont find many here that relies on that thought.

      I myself would like to see her up close for a good look at her. Who knows if she turns up in Philly any time soon I'll get pics of her coming up the river. Or if allowed tour her while shes moored here. It happens alot but not so sure about them letting anybody tour the RN's newest toy. :) But if possible i'll post the pics.
      I know what u mean my friend...!!! so would i like to be able to tour the 8,000 tonner with 14 decks...but alas I wont get the privalege anytime soon that is..!
      I doubt that they would allow a tour when moored some stuff r still classified..!
      Iv been talking to some of my military chums and those that are in the RN have all put request/beggings to serve on her...!

      Would be nice to see her in Action....!!! With crap happeing around the world it will be sooner then later..!!!!

      Also cant wait till the Astute nuclear-powered attack submarines come into focre 2009...after all the contract wrangling friging politicians and civies..!!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Simullacrum
        Could you Please clarify with the reasoning to why you not impressed by this ship..??
        This is the Most Advanced and Deadliest Ship ever built to date..!!!
        Apart from the ground brakeing RADAR Technology which like sniper has stated no-one else has, and to which is un-jamable with todays tech..!! It has some awsome firepower.....armed with 48 Aster missiles with 40lb warheads each, each can stop the fastest enemy jet 60 miles away...do some reaserch and read up on PAMMS as well u may be enlighten to as why it has such firepower..!!!
        Also read up on the SMAPSON RADAR system...!!!

        Or r u the type of person that cause it aint American it aint worth it or anygood..???
        *deadliest ship ever built to date
        *un-jammable radar

        That is yet to be seen.

        As for the bit about "ain't american," no, as a matter of fact I'm a big fan of the Russian Kirov class.

        Now, if the Type 45 turns out to test impressively, thats great. But, it doesn't make it revolutionary. And here is why:
        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


        The Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) Guided Missile Weapon System is the world's most modern ship self-defense weapon.

        There are well over 100,000 anti-ship missiles in the world's inventory today, posing a serious threat to all naval vessels. Assured destruction of a large raid is the only means to ensure ship survival. The Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) Guided Missile Weapon System is the world's most modern ship self-defense weapon, and has been specifically designed to provide exceptional protection for ships of all sizes. RAM is currently installed, or planned for installation, on over 80 U.S. Navy and 28 German Navy ships.

        RAM is a supersonic, light-weight, quick-reaction, fire-and-forget missile designed to destroy antiship missiles. Its autonomous dual-mode passive RF and IR guidance design, requiring no shipboard support after missile launch, uniquely provides high-firepower capability for engaging multiple threats simultaneously.

        The MK 44 Guided Missile Round Pack, coupled with the 21-cell MK 49 Guided Missile Launching System, comprise the MK 31 Guided Missile Weapon System. The weapon system has been designed for flexibility in ships' integration, with no “dedicated” sensors required. A wide variety of existing ship sensors can readily provide the target and pointing information required to engage the antiship threat.

        The RAM missile has been fired in over 150 flight tests to date, resulting in a success rate of greater than 95 percent. This extremely high reliability is the culmination of years of development, testing, and design improvements.

        RAM Block 1
        RAM has evolved in order to counter the anticipated non-RF-radiating anti-ship cruise missiles of the future. The RAM Block 1 missile has been designed to defeat tomorrow's threat. While retaining the existing RF-to-IR guidance modes of the Block 0 RAM, Block 1 incorporates a new image-scanning seeker with the added capability of autonomous IR-all-the-way guidance, thus countering advanced anti-ship missiles which do not employ on-board radar seekers. This new seeker also allows increased capability against crossing targets and the ability to engage fixed and rotary-winged aircraft. Enhanced digital signal processing further provides increased resistance to countermeasures, as well as superior performance in severe IR background conditions.

        The RAM Block 1 missile has successfully completed Navy Operational testing, engaging real-world and surrogate anti-ship missiles. Having demonstrated operational suitability and effectiveness in these stringent tests, RAM Block 1 is now in full-rate production. Helicopter, Aircraft, and Surface (HAS) Capability Raytheon is under contract to provide a software upgrade to Block 1 RAM in order to engage helicopters, aircraft, and surface targets. RAM Block 1's inherent IR seeker design and performance characteristics enable it to engage these targets via missile software enhancements, requiring no hardware modifications. The capability to counter this expanded target set will be available for the fleets in 2002. Concurrent with this design effort, an 11-round launcher system is also being developed for smaller ships and other vessels which have weight constraints.

        And the missile system that launches RAM-
        The SeaRAM Anti-Ship Missile Defense System provides the highest level of ship self-defense with extended keep-out range capability

        The SeaRAM Anti-Ship Missile Defense System is a spiral development of key attributes of both Phalanx CIWS and the Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) Guided Weapon System. SeaRAM is designed to extend the inner layer battle space and enable the ship to effectively engage multiple high-performance, supersonic, and subsonic threats.

        An 11-missile RAM launcher assembly replaces Phalanx's 20 mm gun. SeaRAM combines RAM's superior accuracy, extended range, and high maneuverability with the Phalanx Block 1B's high resolution search-and-track sensor systems and reliable quick-response capability.

        SeaRAM is an affordable capability upgrade -- the above-deck system fits the exact footprint of the Phalanx, uses the same power, and requires minimal shipboard [/B]
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile
        RIM-169

        Evolved SeaSparrow Missile (ESSM) is an international cooperative upgrade of the RIM-7 NATO SEASPARROW Missile. ESSM provides self-defense battlespace and firepower against high-speed, highly maneuverable anti-ship missiles.

        ESSM is bringing transformational anti-ship missile defense capabilities to the naval fleets of the United States and its NATO and other allies. The missile was developed for the U.S. Navy and nine of the other 11 member nations of the NATO SEASPARROW Consortium. ESSM will be deployed on Aegis Flight IIa Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyers, Aegis Ticonderoga-class cruisers, aircraft carriers and the Navy's newest destroyer, DD(X).

        Comment


        • #19
          I wonder how DDX will compare with her. Will they (DDX) be worth the price tag if they cant?
          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

          Comment


          • #20
            Isn't worth the price tag now regardless. As I've said in other forums-
            Current estimated cost calculated by CBO: 3.7 B
            USN will need a price of: 2.0 B

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Defcon 6
              *deadliest ship ever built to date
              *un-jammable radar

              That is yet to be seen.

              As for the bit about "ain't american," no, as a matter of fact I'm a big fan of the Russian Kirov class.

              Now, if the Type 45 turns out to test impressively, thats great. But, it doesn't make it revolutionary. And here is why:
              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


              The Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) Guided Missile Weapon System is the world's most modern ship self-defense weapon.

              There are well over 100,000 anti-ship missiles in the world's inventory today, posing a serious threat to all naval vessels. Assured destruction of a large raid is the only means to ensure ship survival. The Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) Guided Missile Weapon System is the world's most modern ship self-defense weapon, and has been specifically designed to provide exceptional protection for ships of all sizes. RAM is currently installed, or planned for installation, on over 80 U.S. Navy and 28 German Navy ships.

              RAM is a supersonic, light-weight, quick-reaction, fire-and-forget missile designed to destroy antiship missiles. Its autonomous dual-mode passive RF and IR guidance design, requiring no shipboard support after missile launch, uniquely provides high-firepower capability for engaging multiple threats simultaneously.

              The MK 44 Guided Missile Round Pack, coupled with the 21-cell MK 49 Guided Missile Launching System, comprise the MK 31 Guided Missile Weapon System. The weapon system has been designed for flexibility in ships' integration, with no “dedicated” sensors required. A wide variety of existing ship sensors can readily provide the target and pointing information required to engage the antiship threat.

              The RAM missile has been fired in over 150 flight tests to date, resulting in a success rate of greater than 95 percent. This extremely high reliability is the culmination of years of development, testing, and design improvements.

              RAM Block 1
              RAM has evolved in order to counter the anticipated non-RF-radiating anti-ship cruise missiles of the future. The RAM Block 1 missile has been designed to defeat tomorrow's threat. While retaining the existing RF-to-IR guidance modes of the Block 0 RAM, Block 1 incorporates a new image-scanning seeker with the added capability of autonomous IR-all-the-way guidance, thus countering advanced anti-ship missiles which do not employ on-board radar seekers. This new seeker also allows increased capability against crossing targets and the ability to engage fixed and rotary-winged aircraft. Enhanced digital signal processing further provides increased resistance to countermeasures, as well as superior performance in severe IR background conditions.

              The RAM Block 1 missile has successfully completed Navy Operational testing, engaging real-world and surrogate anti-ship missiles. Having demonstrated operational suitability and effectiveness in these stringent tests, RAM Block 1 is now in full-rate production. Helicopter, Aircraft, and Surface (HAS) Capability Raytheon is under contract to provide a software upgrade to Block 1 RAM in order to engage helicopters, aircraft, and surface targets. RAM Block 1's inherent IR seeker design and performance characteristics enable it to engage these targets via missile software enhancements, requiring no hardware modifications. The capability to counter this expanded target set will be available for the fleets in 2002. Concurrent with this design effort, an 11-round launcher system is also being developed for smaller ships and other vessels which have weight constraints.

              And the missile system that launches RAM-
              The SeaRAM Anti-Ship Missile Defense System provides the highest level of ship self-defense with extended keep-out range capability

              The SeaRAM Anti-Ship Missile Defense System is a spiral development of key attributes of both Phalanx CIWS and the Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) Guided Weapon System. SeaRAM is designed to extend the inner layer battle space and enable the ship to effectively engage multiple high-performance, supersonic, and subsonic threats.

              An 11-missile RAM launcher assembly replaces Phalanx's 20 mm gun. SeaRAM combines RAM's superior accuracy, extended range, and high maneuverability with the Phalanx Block 1B's high resolution search-and-track sensor systems and reliable quick-response capability.

              SeaRAM is an affordable capability upgrade -- the above-deck system fits the exact footprint of the Phalanx, uses the same power, and requires minimal shipboard [/B]
              ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile
              RIM-169

              Evolved SeaSparrow Missile (ESSM) is an international cooperative upgrade of the RIM-7 NATO SEASPARROW Missile. ESSM provides self-defense battlespace and firepower against high-speed, highly maneuverable anti-ship missiles.

              ESSM is bringing transformational anti-ship missile defense capabilities to the naval fleets of the United States and its NATO and other allies. The missile was developed for the U.S. Navy and nine of the other 11 member nations of the NATO SEASPARROW Consortium. ESSM will be deployed on Aegis Flight IIa Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyers, Aegis Ticonderoga-class cruisers, aircraft carriers and the Navy's newest destroyer, DD(X).


              So your negative analysis of the type 45s is based on the use of phalanx instead of a missile? somewhat short sighted

              Also the RN has a lot of experience with point defense missiles (sea wolf) and I believe MBDA is a UK based company and a world leader here is a link,


              http://www.mbda.net/site/FO/scripts/...=EN&noeu_id=96


              i'm cant see why MoD would choose the phalanx unless they thought it was a good decision

              Comment


              • #22
                not a phalanx. a SeaRAM. It turns the phalanx into a missile launcher basically.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Defcon 6
                  not a phalanx. a SeaRAM. It turns the phalanx into a missile launcher basically.
                  LOL dont make me laugh about RAM....!!!

                  Do u know why or what the type 45 destroy was built for...????

                  Have you actually read up on PAMS..???
                  It makes RAM look like 3rd world technology...!!!!! 'world's most modern ship self-defense weapon.'...what aload of crock....it was..it aint now..!!

                  Type 45 does not need the RAM system cause of PAMS.!


                  General Characteristics - RAM System (RIM-116A Mod. 0,1)
                  Primary Function: Surface-to-Air-Missile
                  Contractor: Hughes Missile Systems Company and RAM Systems Germany
                  Diameter of Missile: 5 inch (12.7 cm)
                  Length of Missile: 9.18 feet (2.8 meters)
                  Speed of Missile: 2+ Mach
                  Range: approx. 11 miles
                  Cost: Unit cost Block 0: $273,000
                  Unit cost Block 1: $444,000
                  Launcher: MK-43 (Standard) or modified MK-29

                  PAMMS:-
                  Characteristics of ASTER 15 ,
                  Mass 310 kg, Length 4.2 m ,Diameter 0.18 m
                  Propulsion solid propellant, two stage,
                  Terminal velocity:-Mach 3
                  Manoeuvrability:- > 50 g
                  Guidance updata link and active radar seeker in final phase
                  Altitude of interception:- 10 km
                  Range In excess of 30 km
                  --------------------------------------------------
                  Characteristics of ASTER 30
                  Mass 450 kg
                  Length 4.9 m
                  Diameter 0.18 m
                  Propulsion solid propellant, two stage,
                  Terminal velocity:- Mach 4.5
                  Manoeuvrability > 50 g
                  Guidance updata link and active radar seeker in final phase
                  Altitude of interception 20 km
                  Range In excess of 100 km
                  -----------------------------------------------------

                  ASTER 15 & 30 - PAAMS (Principal Anti-Air Missile System), the only system able to integrate three operational naval missions: self-defence, local area defence of nearby vessels and fleet area defence.
                  The Aster missile carries an inertial computer with datalink, an active J-band Doppler radar seeker and 15kg warhead. The speed of Aster 30 is Mach 4, and range is over 80km. The missile has manoeuvrability of up to 62g, achieved through the use of the EADS Aerospatiale PIF/PAF guidance system.
                  The Aster missiles were designed from the outset to intercept sea-skimming missiles and coupled with the SYLVER launcher, PAAMS can launch 8 missiles in 10 seconds. This system provides 360 ° defence and an all weather capability. It also features an extremely quick response time, a high firing rate (8 missiles within 10 seconds), and the capability to engage up to 12 targets simultaneously. The main equipment is designed with a high built-in test capability, and requires limited logistics.

                  High effectiveness
                  -----------------------
                  The design drivers of this system were to overcome the threat posed by Anti-Radiation Missiles, including highly manoeuvring (including dog-leg manoeuvres), stealthy, lately discriminated and unmasked targets. This capability relies on the short reaction time of the Firing Control Unit, the high speed of the Aster weapons (respectively Mach 3+ and Mach 4.5) and their innovative control mode which provides the backbone of a true Hit-To-Kill performance. Although it is designed as a Hit-To-Kill missile, the Aster kill vehicle has a blast fragmentation warhead that is efficient against the most hardened targets within a large intercept volume


                  Outstanding manoeuvrability and unequalled agility
                  -----------------------------------------------------------------
                  The Aster kill vehicle is small and lightweight, enabling it to defeat the new generation of threat, especially highly manoeuvring targets. It is able to provide a high level of manoeuvrability through strong aerodynamic control (`PAF’) and the implementation of pyrotechnic control (`PIF’) that acts at its centre of gravity. This additional control device also acts as a compensator for the aerodynamic control response time and provides lateral acceleration without the need to generate an angle of attack. This enables the system to achieve the shortest response time to a control order, offering unequalled agility, the predominant characteristic of an anti-missile missile. This mixed control has proven its outstanding performance, especially at high altitude where air density is low. As a consequence of this concept, the Aster weapon is a two-stage missile currently with two possible booster sizes.

                  Guidance accuracy
                  -----------------------
                  The Aster missile computes the predicted intercept time according to the target and environmental data it receives during the launch sequence. From the missile flyout and up to the point at which the active RF seeker switches on, the missile is inertially guided, receiving periodic target position and environment updates from the Firing Control Unit via the up-link. This data allows the missile to update its own computations continuously as well as its optimum trajectory towards seeker switch-on and intercept and the predicted intercept time. As soon as the seeker has switched on and achieved target lock, the missile can home onto the target. The risk of acquiring the wrong target is avoided by means of sophisticated functions within the seeker and the on board computer. Just before intercept and as determined by the on board computer, the pyrotechnic ‘PIF’ is initiated, operating in conjunction with the aerodynamic control, the ‘PAF’ to significantly reduce the predicted missile/target miss-distance, to the point of achieving a direct hit.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Hmmm, seems the British have stopped giving away their best toys to the Americans.
                    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                    Leibniz

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by parihaka
                      Hmmm, seems the British have stopped giving away their best toys to the Americans.
                      NOOOO we Americans build our own toys A few of the companies that build our toys also manufacture in the U.K..
                      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dreadnought
                        NOOOO we Americans build our own toys A few of the companies that build our toys also manufacture in the U.K..

                        :) lol.......not all your systems are wholy built by the USA...there is a lot of input from the UK into most of your projects......from weapon defnece system, Radar, Hud displays example Raptor HUD is built by BAe systems, misiles.....Arty guns..... list goes on.!!! Now even your Bradlys and some subduries of lockhead martin are under BAE systems..!! :P

                        Not only BAE systems...but also QinetiQ also has its fingers diped into American pies..!!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Simullacrum
                          :) lol.......not all your systems are wholy built by the USA...there is a lot of input from the UK into most of your projects......from weapon defnece system, Radar, Hud displays example Raptor HUD is built by BAe systems, misiles.....Arty guns..... list goes on.!!! Now even your Bradlys and some subduries of lockhead martin are under BAE systems..!! :P

                          Not only BAE systems...but also QinetiQ also has its fingers diped into American pies..!!
                          Yes true but BAE here is BAE North American so actually it is built here and not there. and also the contractors listed below sub to your country as well. BAE (North American), General Dynamics, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin,Bell/Boeing, Raytheon just to name a few contractors.

                          And just how many of your military systems are either built and or designed here?
                          Last edited by Dreadnought; 01 Feb 06,, 15:38.
                          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Dreadnought
                            Yes true but BAE here is BAE North American so actually it is built here and not there. and also the contractors listed below sub to your country as well. BAE (North American), General Dynamics, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin,Bell/Boeing, Raytheon just to name a few contractors.

                            And just how many of your military systems are either built and or designed here?
                            LOl now thats splitting hairs lol....its still BAE systems...it is still a foreign company which owns and direct other American militry companies..!! lol..!!!

                            ITs like saying that the Apache helicopter which we have...which were built in the UK with modified electronics and engine.....is British...???? what would you say to that one ..?? lol

                            lol NEXT YOU WILL BE TELLING ME THAT HARRIER jUMP JETS ARE AMERICAN CAUSE YOU HAVE A LICENCE TO BUILD THEM IN THE US..!!


                            lol.......systems which are built at your end of the pond for us are trident missile, tomahawks, (which we are producing our own varient the Storm Shadow)....Awacs, Hercules, Chinook..!!!

                            The integration between The USA and UK is profund...u would be very surprise as to what the UK input is into American Militry products are...!!! The top tier and been reaserching together form Stealth technology [I know we dont have in use stealth aircrafts like your selves but we have been design stealth from the 50's as well....we have actually built and demonstarted our own stealth fighter jet].....Electromagnetic catapult propollsion system..RADAR technology..IT systems....even to system trying to make tanks 'stealth'......list goes on...!!!
                            Last edited by Simullacrum; 01 Feb 06,, 16:02.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Simullacrum
                              LOl now thats splitting hairs lol....its still BAE systems...it is still a foreign company which owns and direct other American militry companies..!! lol..!!!

                              ITs like saying that the Apache helicopter which we have...which were built in the UK with modified electronics and engine.....is British...???? what would you say to that one ..?? lol

                              lol NEXT YOU WILL BE TELLING ME THAT HARRIER jUMP JETS ARE AMERICAN CAUSE YOU HAVE A LICENCE TO BUILD THEM IN THE US..!!


                              lol.......systems which are built at your end of the pond for us are trident missile, tomahawks, (which we are producing our own varient the Storm Shadow)....Awacs, Hercules, Chinook..!!!

                              The integration between The USA and UK is profund...u would be very surprise as to what the UK input is into American Militry products are...!!! The top tier and been reaserching together form Stealth technology [I know we dont have in use stealth aircrafts like your selves but we have been design stealth from the 50's as well....we have actually built and demonstarted our own stealth fighter jet].....Electromagnetic catapult propollsion system..RADAR technology..IT systems....even to system trying to make tanks 'stealth'......list goes on...!!!
                              Our two countries have worked together militarily for a long time my friend and Im sure regardless of what we say they will continue to do just that. ;)

                              lol NEXT YOU WILL BE TELLING ME THAT HARRIER jUMP JETS ARE AMERICAN CAUSE YOU HAVE A LICENCE TO BUILD THEM IN THE US..!!

                              Actually from what I have read the origins of Harrier go back to the French first (Michel Wibult) and then after several trials/transactions onto Bristol (engines) and then on to Hawker to make the bodies. So actually Bristol took the engine design a step forward from Wilbult ideas but did not originate the design as Wilbult did. Hawker provided the body and an updated Pegasus engine to stabilize it. So in essence according to what i read the Brits used a design already in the works, added a body and a stronger engine and called it their own. This is only one theory I provided a link below.

                              But yes the Marines and the Navy i believe use the Harrier. But I think now days its primarily Marines that use them.

                              http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avav81.html
                              Last edited by Dreadnought; 01 Feb 06,, 17:20.
                              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Dreadnought
                                I wonder how DDX will compare with her. Will they (DDX) be worth the price tag if they cant?
                                The T45 is an area air defense destroyer. DDX is strike/ASW like the sprucans.
                                F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

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