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  • #76



    Fixed the barbette issue with the 8"/12 short guns (4x1), colored the other cruiser picture

    http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_8-12_Short.htm

    Single gun turret mountings would have ROF ~8 rpm, w/hoists, powered rammer, RPC and director control. Supercharges increase max range to 8,000 yrds.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 27 Jan 13,, 03:07.
    sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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    • #77
      The best way to get sea sick is to ride on a large catamaran. They are fine if the water is as smooth as glass. But with any swells, one hull wants to go one way and the other hull wants to go another way. So the ship never has a rhytmic pitch and roll.

      Even on the DSRV mother ships (USS Pigeon and USS Ortolan) we had a project call "Sea Kindlyness" where we added an underwater "wing" between the two hulls. It not only helped make the ride smoother, it increased the safety margins of recovering their DSRV's quite a bit wider as the subs were raised up between the hulls.

      Your best bet is to install retractable hydrofoils and fin stabilizers.
      Last edited by RustyBattleship; 27 Jan 13,, 21:53. Reason: adding humorous solution
      Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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      • #78
        more art




        The sparko-gavin flash gorden cruiser in color! Note the addition of the 12 nuclear engine seaplane (with 16" naval gun in bow)

        Attached Files
        Last edited by USSWisconsin; 05 Feb 13,, 07:35.
        sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
        If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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        • #79
          Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
          The best way to get sea sick is to ride on a large catamaran. They are fine if the water is as smooth as glass. But with any swells, one hull wants to go one way and the other hull wants to go another way. So the ship never has a rhytmic pitch and roll.

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          SWATH improves on the cat in that regard.

          SWASH is interesting too, keeps propulsion closer to the centerline where a cat may have some big trouble if it loses propulsion on one side. And as compared to SWATH, I think SWASH maybe more applicable to a warship with centerline guns.

          A workboat tender being built in Summer 2012 by Abeking and Rasmussen Shipyard in Germany
          provides a good example of SWASH:








          While we are at it... A pair of Brunvoll's azimuth rim driven electric propulsors at the rear of a small SWASH hulled ship might also be interesting, not for a battleship, but maybe for a diesel electric powered NGFS gunboat. Put pairs of AGS fore and aft, each pair with a magazine. Give it bridge wings, with a 57mm under each, a 25mm Phalanx CIWS above each, and RAM launchers fore and aft of the mast.
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          • #80
            Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
            The sparko-gavin flash gorden cruiser in color!
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            • #81
              JRT:

              "We need a bigger boat". I have always thought that was the best bit of dialogue in the entire movie. Yeah. Something like a Fletcher class Destroyer --- minimum. With depth charge racks.
              Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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              • #82
                Did I hear......

                Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
                JRT:

                "We need a bigger boat". I have always thought that was the best bit of dialogue in the entire movie. Yeah. Something like a Fletcher class Destroyer --- minimum. With depth charge racks.
                Someone say Fletcher ????

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                • #83


                  An ironclad cruiser, about 1890
                  9000t
                  20 knots, 16000 shp 2 VTE, 4 water tube boilers, coal
                  4x10"/40
                  4x5"/50
                  4x12pdr
                  10" Compound armor belt, 6" upper, fwd and aft belts, 12" turrets, 1.5" deck, 6" gunsheilds, 12" CT (2)
                  390'x65'x24'
                  Attached Files
                  sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                  If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                  • #84
                    Wisconsin,

                    Have you given any thought to a completely cast armored citadel? The IJN Yamato used the armor as a structural member I believe (with crappy rivetted joints). I'm thinking about forming a BBs armor much like form molded modern cement building. Except that the citadel is formed out of steel and then some how heat treated later. Bow and stern merely add to the flotation of the citadel.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Gun Boat View Post
                      Wisconsin,

                      Have you given any thought to a completely cast armored citadel? The IJN Yamato used the armor as a structural member I believe (with crappy rivetted joints). I'm thinking about forming a BBs armor much like form molded modern cement building. Except that the citadel is formed out of steel and then some how heat treated later. Bow and stern merely add to the flotation of the citadel.
                      Cast armor was abandoned on ships in the the mid-19th century. It is too brittle and heavy. Forged armor was preferred for durability and weight. Heat treating was normally done at the armor mill, since it was not practical one the the ship had been assembled. The Japanese were pioneers in the use of armor as a structural material, though the USN also did this. The citadel was normally a part of the structural strength of the vessel, whether the armor was bolted to the structure or formed the hull's structural members directly with no underlying plates - as in the the 1920's Japanese cruiser designs.
                      sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                      If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
                        JRT:

                        "We need a bigger boat". I have always thought that was the best bit of dialogue in the entire movie. Yeah. Something like a Fletcher class Destroyer --- minimum. With depth charge racks.

                        I remember my old man talking about catching sharks in Port Au Prince Haiti.. they made large hooks, put meat on them and threw them off the fan tail.. used the ship's capstan to winch them up.. they had "a bigger boat"... 14,000 tons full load, 455 ft long.. big enough for even Jaws..

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
                          Cast armor was abandoned on ships in the the mid-19th century. It is too brittle and heavy. Forged armor was preferred for durability and weight. Heat treating was normally done at the armor mill, since it was not practical one the the ship had been assembled. The Japanese were pioneers in the use of armor as a structural material, though the USN also did this. The citadel was normally a part of the structural strength of the vessel, whether the armor was bolted to the structure or formed the hull's structural members directly with no underlying plates - as in the the 1920's Japanese cruiser designs.
                          Borrowing from the main battle tanks for modern warship applications, have you looked at using a layer of Chobham armor applique in the higher locations, maybe with a layer of explosive reactive armor over that? That wouldn't be applicable in the older what-if warships, but should be applicable later on as those technologies were developed. And perhaps it might be argued that more funding in warship armor research might have resulted in earlier development.
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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by JRT View Post
                            Borrowing from the main battle tanks for modern warship applications, have you looked at using a layer of Chobham armor applique in the higher locations, maybe with a layer of explosive reactive armor over that? That wouldn't be applicable in the older what-if warships, but should be applicable later on as those technologies were developed. And perhaps it might be argued that more funding in warship armor research might have resulted in earlier development.

                            Yes, the Chobham type armor should be good on ships, I have designed most of my large modern warship ships with it, the ER armor I am not as confident about on ships in the superstructure and on the deck, because of potential colateral damage, though it is used inthe PVLS systems, it is not a first line of defense in that case, there it is only engaging when the missile magazine is ignited. I am not inclined to use it on centerline gun turrets, but for the belt or magazines close to the hull side for outboard protection does make sense. Against AShM threats I believe they both have merits.

                            Here are a few sketches from about a year ago, the first two use Chobham/composite armor to provide immune zones from 5" fire, al have splinter protection to enhance survivability, PVLS have venting to provide ER type protection. The final design (BBGN) has both composite and ER armor.

                            I have been considering a SWATH gunboat or small aviation cruiser, haven't gotten a drawing finished yet though.
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by USSWisconsin; 09 Mar 13,, 21:51.
                            sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                            If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                            • #89
                              WWII and WWI capital ships (Battle cruisers)



                              Attached Files
                              sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                              If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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                              • #90
                                A pair of ships for my imaginary WWII navy. ;)


                                Super heavy BB: 100,000 tons, 32 knots, 12 x 18"/47 (4x3), 26 x 5"/38 (13x2), 120 x 30mm (30x4). 230,000 SHP, 16" belt @ 20 deg, 8" deck, 18" barbettes, 24" turret faces, 30' TDS (each side). 980'x160'x32'. 10 x DP gun directors (5.5" sides, 3" top, 6" tube). Cross deck twin/double ended catapult aft, w/ armored deck elevator and 4 AC (4 in below deck storage, 1- 2 addition AC w/deck storage aft) helicopter landing area on fantail. Rear internal boat stowage and deck stowage between stacks, 12 large boats (1:1 mix of 30'-40', 50' max with 8 boats) total (18 w/o aircraft). 30' motor whale boats, 40' cutters and gigs, 50' armed patrol boats)

                                Equipped as a flagship (w/staff of 200), very comfortable accommodation for the entire crew of 2400, not including Flagship staff. 2 crew's mess and galleys, CPO, Officers, Capt and Admirals galleys. Ship has total bunk accommodations for 2800.

                                Enlisted men: separate bunk rooms with 12 men each, racks w/mattresses stacked two high, 24 lockers, 1 toilet, 1 urinal , 2 sinks and 1 shower in each room.

                                CPO's have 6 man bunk rooms, 18 lockers, same plumbing as 12 man enlisted room with privacy wall.
                                Jr officers: 2 bunks not stacked, 2 desks 2 chairs, sink and urinal. Shared washroom for jr Officers: 3 sinks, 2 showers and 3 toilets, 3 urinals, privacy partitions for toilets (for 12 men).
                                Sr officers: private room, port hole, toilet, sink and shower, large bunk, desk, 2 chairs.

                                Capt cabins: 3 cabins: Sea cabin- 4 rooms (conference/dining room, office, bedroom, bathroom) , port cabin - 5 rooms (conference/dining room, sitting room, office, bedroom, bathroom) and bridge cabin - 2 rooms (bedroom, bathroom, all Capt's rooms have portholes).

                                Admiral Suites (2): 8 rooms,conference/dining room, office, sec. office, sitting room w/fireplace, library, master suite w/bathtub and guest bedrooms, bathroom (bedrooms, sitting room and office with portholes). One admirals bridge cabin (same as Capt's).


                                Super cruiser: 24,000 tons, 34 knots, 12x7"/60 (4x3), 12 x 5"/54 (6x2), 20 x 3"/50 (10x2), 20 x23" Torpedo tubes (4x5), 900'x100'x30', 6" belt @ 20 deg, 4" deck, 9" barbettes, 10" turret faces, 160,000 SHP, 20' TDS (each side). Internal boat storage for 8 large boats (1:1 mix of 30'-40', 50' max with 6 boats - types as in BB). 6 x DP gun directors (3.5" sides, 3" top, 4" tube). Crew 1500, no aviation facilities, except helicopter landing area on fantail.

                                Both ships have a 2.5" bomb deck, keel mounted anchors, and maneuvering thrusters fore and aft. A Medium cruiser? (because of 7" guns)

                                I wouldn't want to face these in anything that was actually built - Yamato bring Musashi, you'll need it...

                                Imagine a battle similar to the action in the Denmark Strait, with both the Yamato class ships trying to run down these beasties, sent out to maim the Japanese fleet - and meeting a fate like the HMS Hood with both of them. What an ugly surprise when they find out they aren't the only ones with 18" guns, and they've only got nine on their ships.
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by USSWisconsin; 09 May 13,, 18:58.
                                sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                                If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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