Originally posted by NUS
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Putin has a more fun life than you!
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus
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Originally posted by antimony View PostIn India I would say Indira Gandhi (Pre-emergency) and PV Narasimha Rao had the guts to push through their agendas and emerge shining.When our perils are past, shall our gratitude sleep? - George Canning sigpic
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Originally posted by Knaur Amarsh View PostTwo of the worst PM's India ever had, barring Deve Gowda, IMO.
That is why I stated pre emergency; she did do a good job on the 1971 war. Most of our current batch would have folded like wet paper
About PV Narasimha Rao, he did not let a wafer thin majority stop him from radically changing Indian economy (or at least starting the process). That same team now has a comfortable majority and look at the damp squib budget that we just got
His darkest hours were the Babri Masjid incident and the Hawala brouhaha, but I would mark most of our other PMs.
VP Singh brought in poisonous caste politics. He and Chandra Shekhar led India to an economic crisis as the nation moved into 1991
As for the other PMs, IK Gujral and Morarji Desai sold out RAW to Pakistan.
Desai also removed the Right to Property from the Constitution, so now you have a government ordering peasants to turn over land in the name of industrialisation (Nandigram, Singur). I don't know enough about Charan Singh, but nothing seems to have happened to write home about during his term
All in all, I would probably take PV Narasimha Rao with his flaws rather than the whole bunch of non-achievers I mentioned above."Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus
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Originally posted by antimony View PostChakos,
When one does not have an electorate to kick one in the nuts for nutty decision, I would imagine its easy to project strength. Russia, whatever else it might be, does not seems to be a proper democracy as of now.
Ahmadinejad, another "strong" leader is finding out how tough public opinion can be and now has to cry to big daddy Khamenei. Other "strong" leaders haver either put up barriers for any opposition (like Chavez) or have folded (like Musharraf).
I would have greater respect for a leader who can remain strong in the face of public opinion and do the right thing. In the democracies of the West and the East we have had such leaders - Lincoln, TR, FDR, Churchill, Thatcher, Reagan. In India I would say Indira Gandhi (Pre-emergency) and PV Narasimha Rao had the guts to push through their agendas and emerge shining.
Putin is like an old fashioned Emperor.. the end justifies the means. He took over a crumbling federation and through his own force of wills forged it back into an (albeit much smaller) empire again.
Democracy aside the man is genuinelly loved by his subjects and he has improved their standards of living. He has increased the GDP of the Rus Fed as well as bringing back the pride the people once had.
In all the old fashioned markers of what makes a good leader.. the man is a master. Democracy aside.The best part of repentance is the sin
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Originally posted by chakos View PostLets not get too carried away in todays way of viewing things. Democracy and elections are all fluff in the long term. Noone looks down at the Romans for having an Emperor or the Persians for having a God King...
Putin is like an old fashioned Emperor.. the end justifies the means. He took over a crumbling federation and through his own force of wills forged it back into an (albeit much smaller) empire again.
Democracy aside the man is genuinelly loved by his subjects and he has improved their standards of living. He has increased the GDP of the Rus Fed as well as bringing back the pride the people once had.
In all the old fashioned markers of what makes a good leader.. the man is a master. Democracy aside.
I have no admiration for the man.If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today
Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok
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I'm quite sure, there are more people in Russia thinking for themselves since decades.
Although, every one can decide for himself as long as he does not throw Russia an entity created through efforts and blood of millions of people throughout over a millennia - into breakup, turmoil and misery.
That would real democracy achieve in Russia, IMO. But would it be really worth it? I don't know... Do you?
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The world recognizes Putin's Roar of Power
Check out this title:
Obama to meet powerful Putin for first time
MOSCOW (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama meets Russia's most powerful politician, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, for the first time on Tuesday as part of a trip designed to improve relations between the world's top nuclear powers.
Obama's meeting with the former KGB spy follows talks on Monday with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that produced agreements on a target for cuts in nuclear arms and a deal to let U.S. troops fly across Russia to fight in Afghanistan.
On the second day of his visit to Russia, Obama is also due to deliver a major speech on democracy, the global economy and the U.S.-Russian relationship.
Business leaders traveling with Obama want to use the visit to boost trade and investment. Russian trade with the United States was just $36 billion in 2008, the same amount as with Poland, and investment has lagged that of European competitors.
Obama, who praised Medvedev as straightforward and professional, said before his trip that Putin still had one foot stuck in the Cold War, prompting a retort from the former Russian president who handpicked Medvedev as his successor.
When asked about the center of power in Russia on Monday, Obama stuck closer to a diplomatic script on Medvedev and Putin, who stayed on as prime minister after anointing Medvedev and is the man who holds most political clout in Russia.
"My interest is in dealing directly with my counterpart, the President (Medvedev), but also to reach out to Prime Minister Putin and all other influential sectors in Russian society," Obama told reporters.
ACCORD ON NUCLEAR ARMS
At a cordial news conference in the Kremlin's vast, gilded St Andrew's Hall on Monday, Obama and Medvedev spoke of their resolve to put differences behind them and focus on cooperating to solve global problems like the spread of nuclear weapons.
Both mentioned the issues that still divide them -- Russia's opposition to Washington's plans for a missile defense shield in central Europe and U.S. insistence on Georgia's territorial integrity -- but stressed the positive aspects.
The two leaders pledged to finalize a treaty by the year-end to cut the number of deployed nuclear warheads on each side to 1,500-1,675 from levels above 2,200.
Russia said it would allow 4,500 flights a year carrying U.S. troops and weapons to Afghanistan to cross its territory free of charge, a move hailed by the U.S. side as showing Moscow's willingness to help in the war against the Taliban.
"We have resolved to reset U.S.-Russia relations so that we can cooperate more effectively," said Obama.
Medvedev described their talks as "very useful and open, business-like conversations" and said they would aim to build a U.S.-Russian relationship worthy of the 21st century.
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Originally posted by Grees View PostI'm quite sure, there are more people in Russia thinking for themselves since decades.
Although, every one can decide for himself as long as he does not throw Russia an entity created through efforts and blood of millions of people throughout over a millennia - into breakup, turmoil and misery.
That would real democracy achieve in Russia, IMO. But would it be really worth it? I don't know... Do you?
Is the Russian Federation for itīs people or is the people for the Rus. Federation ? Who owns who ?
There is nothing special in īblood of millions, centuriesī etc. - every nation in the world can say this.If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today
Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok
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Originally posted by antimony View PostI am guessing that you would say the Emergency was the darkest hour of Post Independence India, and I would totally agree. Also her economic policies SUCKED big time.
That is why I stated pre emergency; she did do a good job on the 1971 war. Most of our current batch would have folded like wet paper
About PV Narasimha Rao, he did not let a wafer thin majority stop him from radically changing Indian economy (or at least starting the process). That same team now has a comfortable majority and look at the damp squib budget that we just got
His darkest hours were the Babri Masjid incident and the Hawala brouhaha, but I would mark most of our other PMs.
VP Singh brought in poisonous caste politics. He and Chandra Shekhar led India to an economic crisis as the nation moved into 1991
As for the other PMs, IK Gujral and Morarji Desai sold out RAW to Pakistan.
Desai also removed the Right to Property from the Constitution, so now you have a government ordering peasants to turn over land in the name of industrialisation (Nandigram, Singur). I don't know enough about Charan Singh, but nothing seems to have happened to write home about during his term
All in all, I would probably take PV Narasimha Rao with his flaws rather than the whole bunch of non-achievers I mentioned above.
BUT this thread is not about Indian politics, you must atone for your sins and immediately post topless pictures of Emperor PalPutin for turning it into oneWhen our perils are past, shall our gratitude sleep? - George Canning sigpic
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Originally posted by antimony View PostYou are good
YouTube - Star Wars and Russian Politicians
P.S. Don't let Obama spend too much time with Putin. Putin has got total control over Bush with a single look in his eyes. ;)Winter is coming.
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Originally posted by NUS View PostIt's not me, it's year-old joke:
YouTube - Star Wars and Russian Politicians
P.S. Don't let Obama spend too much time with Putin. Putin has got total control over Bush with a single look in his eyes. ;)
Mind you, Knaur and Chakos would probably spend their fortunes for that privilege:)):)):))"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus
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Originally posted by Grees View PostBut not every Empire ;)If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today
Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok
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Originally posted by BD1 View Postempires come and go. We both used to be under the Sov./Rus. empire, you seem to be residing where once was German Empire and before that Holy Roman Empire, maybe even Roman Empire (depending on your exact location in Germany). And we are talking the language of British Empire ;)
Those 70 years of Soviet Union are nothing in comparison to the long history of Russia. The ballast was dropped but the core is still there and only future will show, if the growth begins anew or a collapse follows.
And that depends mostly on Russians themselves: if they can overcome population decline, economical, scientific and technological backlog and if they can convince their neighbours they are worthy and willing to be a leading force again. Yes, many IFs, but who knows what future prepares for us.
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Originally posted by antimony View PostI would pay for those two to get a room, though I would not be a fly on the wall even if someone pays me.
Mind you, Knaur and Chakos would probably spend their fortunes for that privilege:)):)):))
Whatever you do always do it with SOMEONE ELSES MONEY :))The best part of repentance is the sin
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