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  • Thanks for the update DOR, precise and informative as usual. Have to say though that as far as 'left wing' agendas go it seems a pretty thin list. For a start I would have thought reducing the deficit was pretty much orthodox Republican doctrine, albeit one the party seems quite happy to forgo if it means big tax cuts for key constituencies.
    If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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    • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
      Thanks I'll check it out!
      Also read THE REBELS' REVENGE about a slave who eventually became a force in South Carolina politics as a member of the Republican Party. One can see that the Reconstruction didn't fail but was underminded by white Southern Democrats. Very illuminating of a big part of Southern history that many try to ignore or gloss over. Enough so that, in my opinion, the South deserves to have all Confederate monuments taken down after reading what they perpetrated against blacks from pretty much 1868 and even try today with voter restrictions. To think right after the war the population of South Carolina was 1.1 million of which 600,000 were black citizens.

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      • Originally posted by Monash View Post
        Thanks for the update DOR, precise and informative as usual. Have to say though that as far as 'left wing' agendas go it seems a pretty thin list. For a start I would have thought reducing the deficit was pretty much orthodox Republican doctrine, albeit one the party seems quite happy to forgo if it means big tax cuts for key constituencies.
        GOPers aren't fiscal conservatives, at least not since Nixon. Somewhere in this forum is a thread where I laid out the revenues, spending, balances and debt for each administration going back to, oh, maybe FDR. GOPers consistently spent more, took more out of the economy (but, not enough to pay the bills), ran bigger deficits and hence boosted the national debt.

        As for left-wing agendas, once the GOP abandon the 80% of the political spectrum that sits in the middle, Democrats moved it and have occupied it since Bill Clinton. What Fox calls a left-wing agenda is really just middle-of-the-road. Remember, Obamacare arose out of ideas first raised by Nixon and Gov. Romney.
        Trust me?
        I'm an economist!

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        • Originally posted by DOR View Post
          As for left-wing agendas, once the GOP abandon the 80% of the political spectrum that sits in the middle, Democrats moved it and have occupied it since Bill Clinton. What Fox calls a left-wing agenda is really just middle-of-the-road. Remember, Obamacare arose out of ideas first raised by Nixon and Gov. Romney.
          Even our most leftist marxist Democratic Socialists are at best European middle-left politicians
          "Draft beer, not people."

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          • The US is not Europe, it's a collection of Europeans who left Europe because Europe sucked ass. It sucks ass much less now, but their entire politics are tilted because of centuries of shitty social relations and shitty management.

            Both parties are big-tent centrist parties.
            "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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            • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
              The US is not Europe, it's a collection of Europeans who left Europe because Europe sucked ass. It sucks ass much less now, but their entire politics are tilted because of centuries of shitty social relations and shitty management.

              Both parties are big-tent centrist parties.
              Both parties used to be big-tent centrist parties.
              The term no longer applies to the GOP.
              Trust me?
              I'm an economist!

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              • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                The US is not Europe, it's a collection of Europeans who left Europe because Europe sucked ass. It sucks ass much less now, but their entire politics are tilted because of centuries of shitty social relations and shitty management.

                Both parties are big-tent centrist parties.
                I generally agree with your sentiment about European politics, my point was simply to criticize the hyperbole of labeling even mainline Democrats as being Socialists/Communists by many voices on the right.

                I will have to concur with DOR though, the GOP of today is a far-cry from the big-tent party of Reagan.
                "Draft beer, not people."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                  Both parties used to be big-tent centrist parties.
                  The term no longer applies to the GOP.
                  No non-big tent party can win a statewide or national election in the United States.

                  Frankly there are a lot of comments in this thread from people that have little day-to-day exposure of everyday life other than what they read on the internet or see on TV. Posters from Britain are more than welcome to go start threads talking about Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May and Brexit where they possess more knowledge on that topic than they do American politics. I hate Trump, but I'm a Republican, because the Democratic Party worldview does not appeal to me at all and frankly they're out to lunch on many issues. On the flipside, thinking Tory policies are not the best way forward for the UK doesn't automatically make you an anti-semite.

                  Sorry to provide nuance on this thread. I know that upsets people that view the world in black and white terms.
                  Last edited by rj1; 04 Sep 18,, 13:37.

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                  • Frankly there are a lot of comments in this thread from people that have little day-to-day exposure of everyday life other than what they read on the internet or see on TV.

                    RJ1,

                    Could you elaborate on this statement?

                    Thanks
                    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                    Mark Twain

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                    • I'm on a forum that mostly has British Commonwealth posters. There are off-topic threads involving Irish politics (I know they're not Commonwealth per se), British politics, Australian politics, NZ politics. They're good reads giving me an insight into things that are not covered by news in the U.S. outside of a little bit on the UK because Americans don't care. I may pop in with the occasional comment but I wouldn't consider myself an expert and therefore talking every 3rd or 4th post would be disingenuous of me when the others talking actually know more about the subject matter than I do. Throw on top of it this is the internet and therefore we have complete anonymity on display where we have no idea who the person we're talking to is, where they're from, or what they really think, and yet you have a bunch of people in "off" locations acting like Ph.D's on American politics when they posted previously for example they had no idea a cross-section of Americans hated Hillary Clinton pre-late 2016, acting like it was all Trump oppo research.

                      This is a good intelligent board. I'd like it to keep that way and not become something like the Mess (former Military Photos) forum which has been hijacked by posters I'm reasonably confident are paid shills for certain groups, including ones that are rather unseemly characters in global hotspots. If your only insight into American politics is a handful of sites on the internet, in a fair world, you'd at least state as much, although I'm not expecting it.
                      Last edited by rj1; 04 Sep 18,, 14:19.

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                      • Wow, explosive book by Bob Woodward to be released in 7 days. At 448 pages it is no short story. Even I couldn't think it could be this off the rails.

                        Ernest Hemingway of Twitter...LMAO

                        https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/polit...ear/index.html

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rj1 View Post
                          I'm on a forum that mostly has British Commonwealth posters. There are off-topic threads involving Irish politics (I know they're not Commonwealth per se), British politics, Australian politics, NZ politics. They're good reads giving me an insight into things that are not covered by news in the U.S. outside of a little bit on the UK because Americans don't care. I may pop in with the occasional comment but I wouldn't consider myself an expert and therefore talking every 3rd or 4th post would be disingenuous of me when the others talking actually know more about the subject matter than I do. Throw on top of it this is the internet and therefore we have complete anonymity on display where we have no idea who the person we're talking to is, where they're from, or what they really think, and yet you have a bunch of people in "off" locations acting like Ph.D's on American politics when they posted previously for example they had no idea a cross-section of Americans hated Hillary Clinton pre-late 2016, acting like it was all Trump oppo research.

                          This is a good intelligent board. I'd like it to keep that way and not become something like the Mess (former Military Photos) forum which has been hijacked by posters I'm reasonably confident are paid shills for certain groups, including ones that are rather unseemly characters in global hotspots. If your only insight into American politics is a handful of sites on the internet, in a fair world, you'd at least state as much, although I'm not expecting it.
                          Okay....I get where you are coming from.
                          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                          Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                            wow, explosive book by bob woodward to be released in 7 days. At 448 pages it is no short story. Even i couldn't think it could be this off the rails.

                            Ernest hemingway of twitter...lmao

                            https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/polit...ear/index.html

                            holy....shit!
                            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                            Mark Twain

                            Comment


                            • Damning Woodward book depicts 'crazytown' Trump White House

                              Washington (AFP) - The White House under President Donald Trump is mired in a perpetual "nervous breakdown" with staff constantly seeking to control a leader whose anger and paranoia can paralyze operations for days, according to a new book by Bob Woodward.

                              The Washington Post, which obtained an advance copy of the book by the veteran chronicler of modern presidents, reported Tuesday that Woodward describes Trump manically pressing his staff for actions that could lead to major conflict -- leaving them little choice but to disregard his orders.

                              In one anecdote, Trump questioned his National Security Council on January 19 about why the United States maintained a costly presence on the Korean peninsula.

                              "We're doing this in order to prevent World War III," Defense Secretary Jim Mattis felt it necessary to inform him.

                              After that meeting, according to Woodward, Mattis said to colleagues that Trump had the understanding "a fifth- or sixth-grader" -- a 10- or 11-year-old child.

                              Woodward's much-awaited book, "Fear: Trump in the White House," shows aides routinely ignoring or acting to block orders by the US president.

                              Gary Cohn, who was the chief White House economic advisor, went so far last year as to steal an order from Trump's desk that, if the president had signed it, would have cancelled the US-South Korea trade agreement.

                              And in April 2017, after Syria's Bashar al-Assad attacked civilians with chemical weapons, Woodward reports, Trump demanded Mattis assassinate Assad.

                              "Let's fucking kill him! Let's go in. Let's kill the fucking lot of them," Trump told the Pentagon chief.

                              Mattis agreed to take action, but after he got off the telephone, he told an aide that the United States would take "more measured" steps against Syria -- which eventually came as a punitive air strike.

                              - 'Crazytown' -

                              Woodward, who does not name his sources but apparently had extensive access to many White House insiders, describes some of Trump's top aides and cabinet members as having deep disdain for him.

                              Chief of staff John Kelly told colleagues he saw Trump as "unhinged" and "an idiot."

                              "It's pointless to try to convince him of anything. He's gone off the rails. We're in Crazytown," Kelly said
                              , according to Woodward.

                              "I don't even know why any of us are here. This is the worst job I've ever had," Kelly added.

                              The looming release of Woodward's book, according to reports, has had the White House on edge for weeks.

                              The writer, one of a duo with Carl Bernstein whose reporting for the Post on the Watergate scandal brought down president Richard Nixon, has published powerful and often embarrassing insider books on presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama.

                              The book is scheduled for official launch on September 11.
                              _____________

                              tbm3fan: It's been like this from Inaguration Day. But hey, at least Trump has great policies.
                              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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