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Thread: What's wrong with Hong Kong (and how to fix it)

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    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    What's wrong with Hong Kong (and how to fix it)

    I've been writing this book for the past 3-1/2 years, and earlier this week I declared it done.
    Now, I need to find a publisher.

    Brief description: An analysis of the constitutional, political, economic, and institutional short-comings of Hong Kong’s ‘one country, two systems’ arrangement, and how to begin the process of restoring the fortunes of a once great business and financial center.

    Category: Hong Kong; China; current events

    Audience: The primary audience is assumed to have a basic familiarity with Hong Kong and its transition from a British Crown Colony to the first Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of China. The secondary audience will be university libraries and course reading lists, research institutions, think tanks, and government and diplomatic readers.

    Purpose and need: The constraints imposed on political development by the Basic Law, interference by Mainland officials in the SAR’s internal affairs, and the structural limitations of an executive-led government have brought Hong Kong to the brink of being ungovernable. The Legislative Council periodically goes on strike, increasing numbers of young people are taking to the streets to express their dissatisfaction, and the ever-present threat of Mainland interference looms larger each year. Understanding the causes, and possible solutions to the current state of affairs requires examination of the roots of the present conflict and the interests of those encouraging their continuation.

    Current interest: Since Mrs. Carrie Lam took office in early 2017, the crack-down on dissent has intensified, raising comment and concern in London, Washington, and among international pressure groups.

    Competing works:
    Analysis of current Hong Kong politics in the English language tends to be highly academic. It is mainly to be found in university libraries and peer-reviewed scholarly journals that are only infrequently accessible to the educated lay reader. This work proposes to address that shortfall.

    Proposed back cover copy: Twenty years after the Handover, the experimental “one country, two system” political arrangement is facing its greatest challenges. Street protests, legislative log jams, political disappearances, and open interference in Hong Kong’s internal affairs by Mainland officials are threatening to make the SAR ungovernable. Before a full-blown crisis dictates unpalatable responses, steps must be taken to redistribute power, revitalize the roles of the Chief Executive and Legislative Council, and rein in Beijing’s role in Hong Kong’s strictly domestic affairs.

    Chapter outline:

    Ch 1 Setting the scene
    Ch 2 A series of unfortunate events
    Ch 3 Governing constraints
    Ch 4 What needs to be done
    Ch 5 Policy options: taxes, land, and money
    Ch 6 The future of Hong Kong
    Acronyms and abbreviations
    Significant events: a time line
    Who’s Who
    Political parties and other actors
    Index
    Endnotes
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

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    Is there a section about the identity crises suffered by Hong Kong's youths? That they try too hard not to be Asian?

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    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    No, the poor little rich kids aren't the issue here.
    The focus is on policy issues and relations with Beijing.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

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    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    And, updates will be needed, for the third time.

    June 9, 2019 anti-extradition law protests were the largest -- if not larger -- since July 1, 2003. Anything from 500,000 to a million people in the streets.

    The photos confirm that this was the largest protest march since July 1, 2003, if not larger. “HKFP Lens: Hong Kong Island comes to a standstill as hundreds of thousands protest extradition bill,” HKFP, June 9, 2019, https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/0...radition-bill/, accessed June 10, 2019.

    A group of protesters decided to camp out in front of the Legislative Council offices from Sunday night until the bill was to be debated on Wednesday. However, after the protest march permit expired at midnight, police moved in to remove the remaining protesters. “Protesters cornered after Gloucester Road takeover,” RTHK, June 10, 2019, https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/compone...3-20190610.htm, accessed June 10, 2019.

    Predictably, the Chinese media blamed foreign interference for the protests. “Chinese media blames Hong Kong demo on collusion with West,” AFP, cited in HKFP, June 10, 2019, https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/1...ollusion-west/, accessed June 10, 2019.

    Unlike in 2003 and subsequent protests, demonstrations of support were held in cities around the world. Cheng, Kris, “From Vancouver to New York to Brisbane, rallies around world express solidarity with Hong Kong’s mass protest against extradition agreement, SCMP June 10, 2019, https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...ss-solidarity#, accessed June 10, 2019.
    Trust me?
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    Do other extradition treaties have fair trial guarantees?

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    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    Do other extradition treaties have fair trial guarantees?
    I don't know, but I suspect that there are very few between countries with such vastly different standards of evidence, and other safeguards.
    Trust me?
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    I am from Hong Kong and I was one of those marching in the street on the hot sizzling day of June 9, 2019.
    Can anyone who knows about UK immigration law please help?
    We want to report to the UK govt. about some of the shameless politicians, councilors and govt. officials in Hong Kong/ China.
    They have been blaming the UK for intervening in affairs in Hong Kong.
    They have nothing good to say about the UK, but ironically, either they and/ or their immediate families hold UK passports and/or investments/ properties.
    How can we expose them to the UK govt?

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    Danika,

    As an ex(ish) British citizen and FCO Civil Servant I certainly support your struggle for democracy in Hong Kong - and hope it spreads to the mainland. I do not doubt the FCO and the majority of the current ruling Conservative Party would publicly do so as well - some sincerely. However I advise you to be cognisant of the current circumstances of the UK regarding 'Brexit' and being in the process of electing a new Conservative Party leader who will become the new Prime Minister. Bearing in mind these circumstances and as there is as yet no telling who will be the next PM your 'expose' if delivered may meet with different responses from any new Government. If the UK does indeed leave the EU with no deal as some of the candidates to be the new PM seem to suggest a trade deal with China would likely be on their 'to do' list and be regarded as a feather in their hat if such a thing could be agreed. It is doubtful that such a British PM would therefore be keen on exposing the hypocrisy of Chinese pawns in Hong Kong. I am afraid you may have an uphill task with the Government.

    A better idea would be to contact the British Press who can shame the British Government and so force them to act or at least mention the issues. I am not sure if there are British Press in Hong Kong but I assume there must be at least one so I would advise contacting them and supplying them with your information and proofs. DOR (above) is a former HK resident and he may be able to better inform you where to find British reporters there.

    Never give up. Sic semper tyrannis!

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    Do other extradition treaties have fair trial guarantees?
    Depends on the country. If its an EU one being asked to extradite to Asia then one requirement is no death penalty. It can even take prison conditions into account. A typical jail in Asia is considered unacceptable to western standards unless express guarantees are made. That is the little i can glean from the news when trying to extradite Indian citizens that defrauded Indian banks, ran off to London and then trying to get them back to stand trial in India.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Jun 19, at 06:18.

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    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    And, updates will be needed, for the third time.

    June 9, 2019 anti-extradition law protests were the largest -- if not larger -- since July 1, 2003. Anything from 500,000 to a million people in the streets.

    The photos confirm that this was the largest protest march since July 1, 2003, if not larger. “HKFP Lens: Hong Kong Island comes to a standstill as hundreds of thousands protest extradition bill,” HKFP, June 9, 2019, https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/0...radition-bill/, accessed June 10, 2019.

    A group of protesters decided to camp out in front of the Legislative Council offices from Sunday night until the bill was to be debated on Wednesday. However, after the protest march permit expired at midnight, police moved in to remove the remaining protesters. “Protesters cornered after Gloucester Road takeover,” RTHK, June 10, 2019, https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/compone...3-20190610.htm, accessed June 10, 2019.

    Predictably, the Chinese media blamed foreign interference for the protests. “Chinese media blames Hong Kong demo on collusion with West,” AFP, cited in HKFP, June 10, 2019, https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/1...ollusion-west/, accessed June 10, 2019.

    Unlike in 2003 and subsequent protests, demonstrations of support were held in cities around the world. Cheng, Kris, “From Vancouver to New York to Brisbane, rallies around world express solidarity with Hong Kong’s mass protest against extradition agreement, SCMP June 10, 2019, https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...ss-solidarity#, accessed June 10, 2019.
    Nothing wrong with wanting rights people in the West pretty much have rather than seeing them slowly erode. To think this will persuade the Taiwanese to have anything to do with China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Depends on the country. If its an EU one being asked to extradite to Asia then one requirement is no death penalty. It can even take prison conditions into account. A typical jail in Asia is considered unacceptable to western standards unless express guarantees are made. That is the little i can glean from the news when trying to extradite Indian citizens that defrauded Indian banks, ran off to London and then trying to get them back to stand trial in India.
    Why didn't they run to Venezuela or something, where there is no extradition arrangement?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danika View Post


    I am from Hong Kong and I was one of those marching in the street on the hot sizzling day of June 9, 2019.
    Can anyone who knows about UK immigration law please help?
    We want to report to the UK govt. about some of the shameless politicians, councilors and govt. officials in Hong Kong/ China.
    They have been blaming the UK for intervening in affairs in Hong Kong.
    They have nothing good to say about the UK, but ironically, either they and/ or their immediate families hold UK passports and/or investments/ properties.
    How can we expose them to the UK govt?
    You're SOL. Freedom of Expression is an enshrined right in the UK. Just because a Brit says something you don't like does not mean you can deny them them British rights.

  13. #13
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    Why didn't they run to Venezuela or something, where there is no extradition arrangement?
    These guys are loaded, one of them made his way to Antigua. Much better than Venezuela.

  14. #14
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Hong Kong guy goes to Taiwan, murders his girlfriend and then flees back to HK.

    Cannot extradite him to Taiwan to face justice. This law will help do that.

    Many disagree...

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    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Q. What's wrong with Hong Kong?
    A. PRC.

    Q. How to fix it?
    A. An independent country, plus democracy.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

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