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  • #31
    Originally posted by DOR View Post
    Try reading it this time. You don’t get a ballot unless you’re registered to vote.
    Nothing to do with absentee or mail-in ballots.

    i bet he registered for the next election.
    Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by bonehead View Post
      i bet he registered for the next election.
      Totally missed the entire point, didn’t you?
      Trust me?
      I'm an economist!

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Burnet View Post
        Official government ID's can be purchased for a nominal fee, here it's $10.00, and there is public transportation available at low or no cost to get there. They are made to be cheap and easily accessible to everyone -- citizen or not -- for the very reason that you cannot function in American society without one.

        Sometimes its a nominal fee.

        When Florida changed to the Real-ID system my old NC license wasn't proof enough to get issued a Florida one. So I needed a certified copy of my Birth Certificate. If I had been born in the county I live in, then it would have been a simple trip to the County Health Dept or even the Clerk of Court. Pay $5 to get a copy, then pay $48 for the licence.( A ID card cost $25).

        But I wasn't. I was born in North Carolina. Long story short, I cost me $185 to get my drivers license.

        For people that are born, raised and die in the same place, it may be cheap. But that is not always the case. Some of us aren't from "Here" and our cost isn't so cheap

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
          Sometimes its a nominal fee.

          When Florida changed to the Real-ID system my old NC license wasn't proof enough to get issued a Florida one. So I needed a certified copy of my Birth Certificate. If I had been born in the county I live in, then it would have been a simple trip to the County Health Dept or even the Clerk of Court. Pay $5 to get a copy, then pay $48 for the licence.( A ID card cost $25).

          But I wasn't. I was born in North Carolina. Long story short, I cost me $185 to get my drivers license.

          For people that are born, raised and die in the same place, it may be cheap. But that is not always the case. Some of us aren't from "Here" and our cost isn't so cheap
          How did you get the lights turned on or sign a lease/mortgage?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by rj1 View Post
            Funny story.

            I'm running for Township Board this year. About the most grassroots political position in the Midwest. I told my neighbor about it and asked for his vote before the primary one day. He said "I don't vote" and then explained why. He was a longtime cop where we're at, a larger than medium-sized city, and every election he was always told who he must vote for and give money to and if he didn't, life was going to suck for him. So when he retired in the late '70s, he says he never voted again after that point.
            Welcome to India! :D

            Originally posted by rj1 View Post
            I agree with your 2nd line. A large part of the problem is the voting list is not kept accurate. Death? May or may not be updated. Moving? Only gets updated if you take the time to tell the election board about it. You'd think there would be some way to coordinate all of the government databases together (voting, tax filings, education, post office, etc.) but no one has undertaken this. If you want to talk about the ills and plagues of government bureaucracy, inaccurate voting lists ranks near the top. I don't understand why there can't be one database that keeps track of people and where they're at, just on a county-by-county level. It'd be like a localized permanent ongoing census. It'd have accurate voter registration, would cut down on identity fraud, and government can keep better track of who is where and what they all need.
            I can't believe issues like these exist in US today. Next time I criticise India, which I do often, I'd remind myself of your statement.

            Build a data warehouse, use surrogates keys & SSNs, enlist slowly changing dimensions (SCD) to record changes, and mine/query the data from anywhere in the US, by any office. It's so easy. I mean, our politicians are jackasses, and have 0 idea of developing the country, but knowing it is the same in US is puzzling.
            Last edited by Oracle; 02 Aug 18,, 08:18.
            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
              Technically no one is. People just have to get their names ticked off either by attending a polling place or getting a postal vote. Nothing illegal about submitting a blank or spoiled ballot.

              From my POV it is a small impost given the value of good government. No worse than taxation.
              How does compulsory voting support good government? I would have thought it would do the opposite.

              I don't know about you but I've got a number of friends that would know who Turdbull, Shorten and maybe Daniel Andrews are. Other than those names they've got no idea about politics., not because they're simpletons, but because it's just not on their radar. Majority of wives and girlfriends of friends would be the same. Their voting is either the party they've voted for their entire life or some random they like on the day or they heard were giving out free stuff. Given the choice most would not vote.

              I cannot see any reason why people who have no interest or care about the government should have to vote or why making their voting compulsory is a good thing. The only reason I can see for a person supporting compulsory voting is that they feel without it their party would lose support. Labor's support of compulsory voting is motivated by the need to get young adults to the polls as most vote left. It's also the reason they're talking about lowering the voting age to 16.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                How did you get the lights turned on or sign a lease/mortgage?
                I don't ever remember having to produce an ID to get the lights turned on or start my mortgage. All they have ever wanted to see was cash or credit card

                The only time I've had to show ID was when buying a new car before test driving. Gotta show a valid DL.

                However if there was a time I needed to show photo ID, I have a few (VA, Ret Mil, PADI, FSU Student....) but none of those would be valid for voting registration/ID. None of those indicate/prove citizenship.

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                • #38
                  Let me add something concerning the Real ID system. For a male its simple, Birth certificate. But for a female that is married and/or has multiple marriages/divorces/death of spouse/name change they have to provide documentation for each and every one from the birth certificate to the present.

                  and even with all that, if falls to the person/official doing the paperwork (office worker). DMV registers you to vote in Florida.
                  When my wife got her new Drivers license, being a foreign national, she had to bring her passport and green card.

                  The DMV worker processed all that then asked her "Are you a Democrat or Republican?" Wife ask what that has to do with the DL "Nothing, its for voters registration"

                  The my wife had to explain that she wasn't eligible to vote as a Permanent resident. And this wasn't some new worker at the DMV, I know the person, they have worked there over 10 years. They Should know the laws

                  If my wife had not said anything, she could have registered to vote.

                  Requiring an ID card to vote would change nothing.

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                  • #39
                    Since you apparently need identification to buy food over there it should surely be easy to identify voters.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by kato View Post
                      For a simple comparison, over here everyone is on the voter register - unless they moved within the last 3 months. And everyone votes with either only their election notification or their national ID card.

                      If there's something in the US voter registration process that seems utterly alien to me it's the party affiliation, i.e. registering as a Democrat, Republican, Independent etc. To me that defies the basic concept of a - modern - democratic election.
                      The reason for party affiliation is primaries. In Germany, Social Democrats should not be able to go vote for who the Christian Democrat nominee for Chancellor is. There's an incredibly obvious conflict of interest present there. You can in a lot of states in the U.S. that don't have party affiliation and even some that do. There's going to be a good-sized percentage of Trump voters voting in the 2020 Democratic primaries if Trump has no respectable Republican primary challenger.

                      In Indiana, we have open registration, which is you become a member of a political party by telling the election poll office teller which primary ballot you want to have. You're then according to state law supposed to vote for that party's candidates in the general election, but this is completely unenforceable. So we have party registration in theory but not in reality. It can lead to issues such as this which happened in my county in 2015:

                      http://www.journalgazette.net/news/l...redone-6911365

                      Woodburn Democratic mayor vote to be redone
                      JEFF WIEHE | The Journal Gazette
                      Remember those primary election results for the Democratic candidate for Woodburn mayor that came rolling in May 5?

                      You can wipe those out.

                      The Allen County Election Board voted Friday to redo that primary this summer in the wake of a lawsuit from the man who lost by 12 votes to incumbent Woodburn Mayor Richard Hoeppner.

                      Ryan Reichhart claimed that registered Republicans voted illegally in his and Hoeppner’s primary and possibly cost him the nomination. He lost the primary by a final tally of 71 votes to 59, according to Allen County election results.

                      Both Democratic and Republican officials supported a new election, mainly to make sure the election is valid and also to fix complications that can be caused by registered Republicans voting in a Democratic primary.

                      Per Indiana law, a person’s party affiliation is whatever primary they last voted in.

                      Two of those who voted in the Reichhart/Hoeppner primary are Republican office holders in Woodburn. Their votes, if the election had not been thrown out, would make them registered Democrats in the eyes of the state.

                      "It makes their party affiliation in office questionable," said Steve Shine, the Allen County Republican Party chairman. "By basically doing a total redo, we take care of all these problems."

                      Attorneys for both Reichhart and Hoeppner support the redo, election board officials said.

                      How registered Republicans ended up voting in the Democratic primary went something like this:

                      Republicans showed up May 5 but found out there was no contested race for the Republican mayoral candidate. They were told they could partake in the Democratic primary, and purportedly many did so.

                      According to Reichhart’s lawsuit, which he filed against Hoeppner and the Allen County Election Board in Allen Circuit Court, City Clerk-Treasurer Holly Sarrazine told Reichhart she could not vote because she was a Republican and there were no contested Republican races.

                      So she left the polling place.

                      But then Hoeppner’s wife went into the polling place and said that she spoke to poll workers who said Republicans can still vote, according to court documents.

                      "(Reichhart) observed many voters who he knew and voted Republican in the past proceed to vote. These voters also told (Reichhart) they couldn’t vote for him because he was a Democrat," Reichhart’s attorney Samuel Bolinger wrote in court documents.

                      In all, there were 49 declared Democrats in the poll books along with 43 declared Republicans, making it impossible to determine the outcome of the election.

                      "It’s an unfortunate thing," said Jack Morris, the deputy chairman of the Allen County Democratic Party. "It puts a cloud over the proceedings."

                      Election board officials are looking to hold the new election Aug. 4.

                      According to state law, since it was an off-year election in a municipality, Woodburn will be on the hook to pay for the redo.

                      Beth Dlug, Allen County director of elections, said the price tag is not expected to exceed $2,000.
                      What happened in the end was the original winner of the Democrat primary and incumbent mayor withdrew so the 2nd election did not take place (probably to save the town the cost of funding it). The Republicans nominated a candidate in a post-primary convention, and the 2 contested elections that town had in November was the mayor and the city clerk-treasurer that made the mistake. They were each from different parties and both lost 75-25 as a bit of a punishment for creating the mess.

                      You also have the occasional candidate get thrown out by the election board because he/she filed for election for a candidate for one party but voted in the most recent primary for the other one.

                      I will support no party registration of voters but only if state-funded primaries cease, and the parties run and fund their own caucuses/primaries for candidate selection. I'm not holding my breath.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                        I can't believe issues like these exist in US today.
                        Well, maybe now you and others can partially understand why "government is the solution" draws contempt from a lot of Americans.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by rj1 View Post
                          Well, maybe now you and others can partially understand why "government is the solution" draws contempt from a lot of Americans.
                          It's the same around the globe. Citizens should keep democratic set-ups on the tip of a spear all the time.
                          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by kato View Post
                            If there's something in the US voter registration process that seems utterly alien to me it's the party affiliation, i.e. registering as a Democrat, Republican, Independent etc. To me that defies the basic concept of a - modern - democratic election.
                            It is necessary because of the primary system. Otherwise republicans will try to influence democratic primaries and vice versa. Does Germany have the primary system as well?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by rj1 View Post
                              Adequate is not good enough. It should be accurate.

                              http://www.ncsl.org/research/electio...-accuracy.aspx
                              Yes, that is what I meant. If India with substandard technology and processes can do it, the US should be bang-on accurate, especially for a much smaller population.
                              "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                                It is necessary because of the primary system. Otherwise republicans will try to influence democratic primaries and vice versa. Does Germany have the primary system as well?
                                Members of German political parties select their candidates through meetings at the local and regional levels. Maybe kato can better elaborate on how it's done, but from what I can gather the process is somewhere on the spectrum between smoke-filled backroom and the primary system seen here in the US. A much smaller, far more exclusive "primary", if one can call it that.

                                The CDU/CSU, for example, have a combined membership of 575,000 people, and the SPD 457,000. That's 1.25% of the German population. The US Republican and Democratic parties by contrast have 32.8 million and 44.7 million members, respectively, which is about 24% of the US population.

                                Candidates in Germany are therefore selected by a much smaller number of people than candidates in the US are. In Germany, one has to apply to become a member of a party, pay dues, etc. and membership applications can be rejected by the party. In the US, membership in a political party is more or less simply done by declaring an affiliation. Being a member of a German political party is a much more serious affair.
                                Last edited by Ironduke; 09 Aug 18,, 23:27.
                                "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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