Thread: Illegal Downloading and File Sharing is Good for the Economy

Originally Posted by Wooglin

Well if "whatever I want" is anything beyond watching it via the embedded youtube player then yes, it's covered in the TOS you agreed to. Thus, the fact that it's your cache is irrelevant.

The electric company has to use MY property, MY wiring, to provide it's service to me, but I'm pretty sure they'll stop service if I decide that means I don't have to pay them to use it. I think I'm going to lose that fight.

The point is usage. If you are going to use the power company as an analogy, then the question is can the power company deny you power because they don't like what you watch on TV.

Originally Posted by JAD_333

The point is usage. If you are going to use the power company as an analogy, then the question is can the power company deny you power because they don't like what you watch on TV.

I can use my electricity however I want, though I'm sure I can't share it with my neighbor or resell it, because I pay for it's use and I agree to those conditions. It's the same with music and movies....no? Are you paying for youtube content? No. You are getting it for free under certain conditions regarding its use under the TOS.

The electric company provides a product to me which I pay to to use, and so does the copyright holder of music and videos. They are both providing me this product partially by the use of my property. The difference here is youtube is a third party in the middle of you and the copyright holder providing the content for free under certain conditions regarding its use. Just because I have free access to the content doesn't make it mine, and the fact that it's being provided by use of my own property doesn't change that.

Now, if I had an agreement with some third party that provided me free electricity under certain conditions, then yes, they can deny me power if I break those conditions. The argument that it's mine to do with what I want because you have to use my property to provide it doesn't really hold up.

Here's the thing. Youtube doesn't supply the player. You have to get it somewhere else and youtube also allows you to embed their materials within your own webpage. Youtube does not require you to use a specific player and frankly does nothing to control the behaviour of your player. Your player may or may not erase the cache.

In other words, if your player does not erase the cache, then who's fault is that? You? The software? Youtube for not dictating your player's behaviour or even the choice of your player?

And of course, you can resell electricity. What do you think we do when we buy batteries?

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Here's the thing. Youtube doesn't supply the player. You have to get it somewhere else and youtube also allows you to embed their materials within your own webpage. Youtube does not require you to use a specific player and frankly does nothing to control the behaviour of your player. Your player may or may not erase the cache.

In other words, if your player does not erase the cache, then who's fault is that? You? The software? Youtube for not dictating your player's behaviour or even the choice of your player?

Your fault.

I have a store, all the products exposed, no security, no cameras, no alarms, you stole them, who's fault is it?

Originally Posted by Doktor

Your fault.

I have a store, all the products exposed, no security, no cameras, no alarms, you stole them, who's fault is it?

But I didn't steal them. I use a player authorized by you. I didn't modify the player in any way shape or form. I played your material. I launch my player again and it's still there through no actions of my own.

Ok, you and I know how to kill a cache but what about old mom who can barely turn on a computer? Are we expecting her to have the technical expertise?

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Here's the thing. Youtube doesn't supply the player. You have to get it somewhere else and youtube also allows you to embed their materials within your own webpage. Youtube does not require you to use a specific player and frankly does nothing to control the behaviour of your player. Your player may or may not erase the cache.

In other words, if your player does not erase the cache, then who's fault is that? You? The software? Youtube for not dictating your player's behaviour or even the choice of your player?

And of course, you can resell electricity. What do you think we do when we buy batteries?

C. You agree not to access Content through any technology or means other than the video playback pages of the Service itself, the Embeddable Player, or other explicitly authorized means YouTube may designate.

That's what you can do with it

No, the technology does not allow that. As I stated, you are downloading. You are NOT playing directly from the video playback pages. You're playing from your cache.

Wooglin:

C. You agree not to access Content through any technology or means other than the video playback pages of the Service itself, the Embeddable Player, or other explicitly authorized means YouTube may designate.

U-Tube tacitly accepts your equipment when it downloads to it.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

But I didn't steal them. I use a player authorized by you. I didn't modify the player in any way shape or form. I played your material. I launch my player again and it's still there through no actions of my own.

Ok, you and I know how to kill a cache but what about old mom who can barely turn on a computer? Are we expecting her to have the technical expertise?

Understood. But it's still not yours to convert and put on your ipod according to the TOS.

If you want to make the case it becomes your property then you need to attack the TOS. If they broke the contract somehow then you maybe have an argument there.

Originally Posted by Wooglin

Understood. But it's still not yours to convert and put on your ipod according to the TOS.

I am by no means advocating such a position ... which is why I am so uncomfortable about all this. The technology encourages, no, it actually demands caching, which is technically speaking a violation of the TOS.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

I am by no means advocating such a position ... which is why I am so uncomfortable about all this. The technology encourages, no, it actually demands caching, which is technically speaking a violation of the TOS.

I wouldn't be so squeamish about it. There are plenty of ways to take advantage of youtube files. Ironically, you can just google it.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

But I didn't steal them. I use a player authorized by you. I didn't modify the player in any way shape or form. I played your material. I launch my player again and it's still there through no actions of my own.

Ok, you and I know how to kill a cache but what about old mom who can barely turn on a computer? Are we expecting her to have the technical expertise?

You Tube is accepting any player the can start a FLV file, which actually means they accept anything with Adobe (Flesh) tech in it. If that's a problem for the companies they should fight with Adobe Would be interesting and would end (my guess) with Adobe or other SW producer adding self delete (clean cache, whatever) after watching code into the player. Problem solved. To access it again without actually saving it on your own, you'd need to access the site.