Thread: Seducing Scientists: California and Massachusetts do battle over stem cells

Originally Posted by jon_j_rambo

Having no opinion is an opinion Julie. Rather than reinforce lame-O articles with fake enthusiasm (like the majority), I tell it like it is. Quit being so narrow minded & open your horizons to legendary logic.

These scientists of stem cells are just getting a free ride on the worker's dollar to play in the lab.

-Cowboy

That is rich of you to say I am narrow-minded. While women are getting abortions, the fetus' can be used to cure ailing humans with multiple sclerosis, altzheimer's, etc. It is easy for you to sit back and criticize ones attempting to cure the uncureable since you are healthy, but if you should become stricken, or your child becomes stricken, you will probably change your tune.

Your solution to Mrs. Schievo's problem is "give her the needle," so obviously you have a weakness for suffering human beings. Maybe you are envious that you have no desire to contribute to society for a better quality of life for ailing individuals, as scientists do. So you dismiss these scientists as money grabbers.

Originally Posted by Confed999

I said "Mengele was willing to put ethics aside too." Thus, IF you are willing to put ethics aside as you implied in your post by saying, "argue against government funding for stem cell research from a (misguided) ethical standpoint" you should feel insulted...

How is it unethical to use stem cells to fight human diseases like paralysis or Parkinsons? Why is it more "ethical" to block research on such treatments?

Who says the federal government can/should make that decision to begin with? And there is a large group out there who wants to make it totally illegal, as well as a group that wants to make it legal anytime for any reason. My position is that abortion is wrong, but I'm not you, so I will not decide for you. I feel that way right up until the baby has a greater chance of survival than death, at around 500 grams.

The embryos used in stem cell research come from fertility clinics. Eggs are taken from the mother-to-be, fertilized and implanted in her womb. Several eggs are taken but only one is selected for implantation. The rest of the embryos are killed. Isn't it more ethical to use those embryos to help cure human disease?

Originally Posted by Broken

How is it unethical to use stem cells to fight human diseases like paralysis or Parkinsons? Why is it more "ethical" to block research on such treatments?

Ethics would come into how the stem cells were harvested, not their use in curing disease/disability. I also know of nobody "blocking" research on such treatments.

Originally Posted by Broken

The embryos used in stem cell research come from fertility clinics. Eggs are taken from the mother-to-be, fertilized and implanted in her womb. Several eggs are taken but only one is selected for implantation. The rest of the embryos are killed. Isn't it more ethical to use those embryos to help cure human disease?

Allready answered that one. Read my posts above...

Originally Posted by Confed999

Ethics would come into how the stem cells were harvested, not their use in curing disease/disability. I also know of nobody "blocking" research on such treatments.

I think your concern is about how embryonic stem cells are collected, since Bush has not blocked access to other kinds. However, the Bush's law not only bans federal money for use in embryonic stem cell research, it bans the use of any facilities or equipment which were even partly paid for with federal money, no matter how long ago. Since some federal money was involved at some point in time at almost every research facility in the country, this law effectively blocks embryonic stemcell research except at entirely private or independent facilities. Hence, the California stemcell initiative.

"The embryos used in stem cell research come from fertility clinics. Eggs are taken from the mother-to-be, fertilized and implanted in her womb. Several eggs are taken but only one is selected for implantation. The rest of the embryos are killed. Isn't it more ethical to use those embryos to help cure human disease?"

Allready answered that one. Read my posts above...

What disturbs me is your tone that stemcell research is unethical in principle. Perhaps I am misreading you, but

"Mengele was willing to put ethics aside too"

is a pretty strong statement. Of course, Barrowj did provoke you a bit.

If fertility clinic embryos, which will be destroyed anyway, are used to develop stem cell lines used in curing disease, do you still feel this is unethical? As I understand it, the current legislation in Congress would lilft the ban, but require the embryos to be voluntary donations of these fertility clinic embryos with the patient's consent.

Originally Posted by Broken

I think your concern is about how embryonic stem cells are collected, since Bush has not blocked access to other kinds. However, the Bush's law not only bans federal money for use in embryonic stem cell research, it bans the use of any facilities or equipment which were even partly paid for with federal money, no matter how long ago. Since some federal money was involved at some point in time at almost every research facility in the country, this law effectively blocks embryonic stemcell research except at entirely private or independent facilities. Hence, the California stemcell initiative.

Yeah, but nothing has been "blocked". Research away, just do it at your place. Do adult stem cell research in the other places.

Originally Posted by Broken

What disturbs me is your tone that stemcell research is unethical in principle. Perhaps I am misreading you, but

Again, it's not the research, it's how the cells are harvested that COULD be unethical. Anything without ethics can be turned bad, even the best things. I have never said the research is unethical. If Mengele, a thing with no ethics, were to begin stem cell research imagine where/how he would get them, and what he would do with them... Not a pretty thought 'eh? Ethics count in everything, they are not "misguded".

Originally Posted by Broken

If fertility clinic embryos, which will be destroyed anyway, are used to develop stem cell lines used in curing disease, do you still feel this is unethical?

Read post #9 in this thread.