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Thread: A viable Electric Car out of India

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    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    A viable Electric Car out of India

    This is exactly the kind of innovation that we need in India

    India drives ahead of the world in electric car- Automobiles-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

    India drives ahead of the world in electric car
    19 Sep, 2008, 1750 hrs IST, REUTERS

    MUMBAI: Long before “green” cars became trendy in other parts of the world, a boxy electric two-seater began rolling out of a small factory in Bangalore, which was then emerging as a software services hub.

    Today, scores of Reva electric cars can be seen tootling down Bangalore’s crowded streets, their bright colours and minimalist design drawing curious looks, even smiles, from commuters.

    “It is simply beautiful,” said T Shivaram, a small business owner, who bought a yellow-and-black Reva last year to cut his fuel bill.”It gives me driving pleasure and everyone stares at it and wants to know more about it.”

    The Reva was among the world’s first electric vehicles sold commercially. It did not take off initially quite as its maker had hoped but it has blazed a trail for other electric cars—such as General Motors’ new Chevrolet Volt—which are coming into their own in an age of high oil prices.

    Reva Electric Car Co was set up in 1994 by India’s Maini Group and AEV of the United States. The company was the first to successfully commercialise electric vehicles, according to consultancy Frost & Sullivan.

    By 2001, it had built its first all electric car, just four years after Toyota Motor began selling a car that would come to define the eco-friendly auto segment, the Prius hybrid.

    The Reva was the brainchild of Chetan Maini, scion of the Maini Group, who championed the car at a time when scepticism was widespread about the viability of electric vehicles.

    “He was clearly very much ahead of his time,” said Hormazd Sorabjee, editor of popular magazine AutoCar. “But maybe he lacked the muscle power and the political backing to make a big noise, which is why Reva has remained so small.”

    Developed entirely in house, India’s first electric car was 95% indigenous from the start, built of lightweight steel and plastic and with fewer moving parts. It can be fully charged in seven hours by plugging into a regular 15 amp socket at home.

    The fully-automatic models have a top speed of 65 km/hr and a range of 80 km, and a running cost of just 0.4 rupees/km. But its high price, nearly 25% more than entrylevel cars, found few takers in India where low-end cars hold sway.

    So Maini began exporting the Reva to the United Kingdom and Europe where they are sold as quadricycles. Besides Britain where it is branded G-Wiz, Reva is now also sold in Cyprus, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Malta, Norway, Spain and Sri Lanka. It is also being test marketed for applications such as mail trucks in Australia, Austria, Germany and the United States.

    “We look for countries that offer incentives for electric vehicles, or those that are tightening regulations , or where consumer awareness is high,” said Mr Maini, 38, who tinkers with remote control models of helicopters and planes in his off time.

    With oil prices having hit record highs earlier this year and countries focusing on energy security, there is greater pressure on carmakers to develop engines powered by alternate fuels.

    Reva received $20 million in 2006 from Draper Fisher Juvertson and the Global Environment Fund, but little by way of incentives or subsidies in India.


    The funding has helped add dealers in India and double output to 30,000 units, of which more than half is exported. If demand rises, Reva can easily be assembled in other low-cost centres such as Southeast Asia and eastern Europe, Maini said.

    Maini, who studied mechanical engineering at the University of Michigan and at Stanford University, where he focused on solar-powered cars and hybrid electric cars respectively, employs just over 30 people in the factory in Bangalore.

    In India, government institutions get a small subsidy on the Reva. The government also recently cut excise taxes on hybrid cars to 14%, although the tax is still higher than the 12% tax on small cars and minuscule compared to the tax subsidies and other exemptions granted in Britain, Japan, France and elsewhere.

    “The potential is much more than what we are seeing now,” said Mr Maini. Passenger vehicle sales in India are likely to nearly double to more than 2 million units by 2010.

    Electric vehicles are particularly suited for Indian cities, says Mr Maini, because of shorter distances and lower average speeds. A top speed of 40-60 km/hr and a range of 50-80 km would meet “over 90% of the city mobility requirements in India”, he said.

    Maini is building more powerful cars, with a range of 200 km and top speed of 120 km/hr. He also has prototypes of electric city buses and pick-up trucks, and is testing fuel cell technology.

    The new model Revai, which went on sale this year, features a lithium-ion battery pack for a driving range of more than 140 km compared to the 60-80 km from the existing lead-acid battery. “Technology-wise, we are ready, but we need a clear policy.”

    “Maini didn’t capitalise on the first-mover advantage, but he will be seen as a pioneer, now that everyone is getting into it,” said Mohit Arora, senior director at JD Power & Associates. “History is on his side.”

  2. #2
    Military Professional Elbmek's Avatar
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    A few years ago, in a UK newspaper, I read a report of a Phillipino who had removed his old engine from his car and built in its place, a large battery. Every morning he would pour a bucket of water onto the cells and he could then drive it for the day without "refuelling". He would do the same next day etc etc.

    Now here we have (or had) a zero emission automobile which did not pollute anything and could be driven all day - so where is it? Has some oil company bought the rights, like every other anti petrol patent, and caused it to disappear in a oil fueled black hole?

    Over the past few decades there has been numerous inventions that would, by now, have our talks of climate change and automobile pollution virtually redundant but the oil companies gobble the patents up and hide them away.

    Our planet is controlled by these giants of industry. They are so big nobody dare question them or their motives. Until oil becomes a historical item of interest, we will not see, in any mass production, petrol free cars.
    Never lie, then you have nothing to try and remember.

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    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbmek View Post
    A few years ago, in a UK newspaper, I read a report of a Phillipino who had removed his old engine from his car and built in its place, a large battery. Every morning he would pour a bucket of water onto the cells and he could then drive it for the day without "refuelling". He would do the same next day etc etc.

    Now here we have (or had) a zero emission automobile which did not pollute anything and could be driven all day - so where is it? Has some oil company bought the rights, like every other anti petrol patent, and caused it to disappear in a oil fueled black hole?

    Over the past few decades there has been numerous inventions that would, by now, have our talks of climate change and automobile pollution virtually redundant but the oil companies gobble the patents up and hide them away.

    Our planet is controlled by these giants of industry. They are so big nobody dare question them or their motives. Until oil becomes a historical item of interest, we will not see, in any mass production, petrol free cars.
    I know someone who believes the same conspiracy theory you do.

    What is the working theory behind this water powerplant?

    There must be energy to do any work. Energy is derived from changing something into something else, like burning coal or discharging a battery.

    Water is a very stable substance. It's hard to change it into something else without a net input of energy, which defeats the purpose of using it as fuel.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  4. #4
    Military Professional Elbmek's Avatar
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    I can't recall the "science" of it but it worked. As for conspiracy theories. I am against such things but its been fairly well known that patents have been "vanishing" that could create a petrol free vehicle for many years.
    Never lie, then you have nothing to try and remember.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbmek View Post
    I can't recall the "science" of it but it worked. As for conspiracy theories. I am against such things but its been fairly well known that patents have been "vanishing" that could create a petrol free vehicle for many years.
    Care to provide some proof? If it's so good as you claim, there's plenty of non-oil execs out there who can laywer up just as much or more than any oil exec and push this miraculous technology through to fruition. It's a gold mine larger than any oil deposit as you describe it.
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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    @antimony

    Nice find buddy

    Tata's AIR CAR

    With fuel prices touching nearly $150 per barrel, it is about time we heard some breakthrough!
    India's largest automaker Tata Motors is set to start producing the world's first commercial air-powered vehicle. The Air Car, developed by ex-Formula One engineer Guy Nčgre for Luxembourg-based MDI, uses compressed air, as opposed to the gas-and-oxygen explosions of internal-combustion models, to push its engine's pistons. Some 6000 zero-emissions Air Cars are scheduled to hit Indian streets by August of 2009.

    The Air Car, called the MiniCAT could cost around Rs. 3,50,000 ($ 8177) in India and would have a range of around 300 km between refuels.
    The cost of a refill would be about Rs. 85 ($ 2). Tata motors also plans to launch the world's cheapest car, Tata Nano priced famously at One lakh rupees by October.
    The MiniCAT which is a simple, light urban car, with a tubular chassis that is glued not welded and a body of fiberglass powered by compressed air. Microcontrollers are used in every device in the car, so one tiny radio transmitter sends instructions to the lights, indicators etc.

    There are no keys - just an access card which can be read by the car from your pocket. According to the designers, it costs less than 50 rupees per 100Km (about a tenth that of a petrol car). Its mileage is about double that of the most advanced electric car (200 to 300 km or 10 hours of driving), a factor which makes a perfect choice in cities where the 80% of motorists drive at less than 60Km. The car has a top speed of 105 kmph. Refilling the car will, once the market develops, take place at adapted petrol stations to administer compressed air. In two or three minutes, and at a cost of approximately 100 rupees, the car will be ready to go another 200-300 kilometers.

    As a viable alternative, the car carries a small compressor which can be connected to the mains (220V or 380V) and refill the tank in 3-4 hours. Due to the absence of combustion and, consequently, of residues, changing the oil (1 litre of vegetable oil) is necessary only every 50,000Km.] The temperature of the clean air expelled by the exhaust pipe is between 0-15 degrees below zero, which makes it suitable for use by the internal air conditioning system with no need for gases or loss of power.
    It's an old but good news.....
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    Last edited by The One; 02 Oct 08, at 09:24.

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    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Very nice. I think these are great as urban people movers. They will never survive a collision on the American highways, but that's not what they are built for.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Very nice. I think these are great as urban people movers. They will never survive a collision on the American highways, but that's not what they are built for.
    A lot of the urban vehicular pollution in the south Asian and south east Asian cities are from this highly polluting little montrosity called the auto rickshaw
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_rickshaw

    The pollution results not only from their sheer number but also from the low quality fuel that the drivers tend to use (petrol/ gasoline mixed with kerosene) with the highly inefficient engines (even given the small engine size)

    The REVA car or the AIR car from the TATAs can probably aim at replacing the engines of such vehicles, and thus improve the air quality as well as reduce fuel cots.

    Perfect solution for high density urban situations of Asia.

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    FreeGeneral Senior Contributor Big K's Avatar
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    this is not an "air powered" car.

    air compression engines are not new.

    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/air-car1.htm
    Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

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    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    A lot of the urban vehicular pollution in the south Asian and south east Asian cities are from this highly polluting little montrosity called the auto rickshaw
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_rickshaw

    The pollution results not only from their sheer number but also from the low quality fuel that the drivers tend to use (petrol/ gasoline mixed with kerosene) with the highly inefficient engines (even given the small engine size)

    The REVA car or the AIR car from the TATAs can probably aim at replacing the engines of such vehicles, and thus improve the air quality as well as reduce fuel cots.

    Perfect solution for high density urban situations of Asia.
    Mexico has that problem too. For years the government subsidized the production of VW bug as a trasportation for the people. The design was pretty much the same as when it first rolled off the assembly line in 1930s Germany. They had no advanced exhaust control system to scrub the emission. Hence Mexico City ranks among the worst in air quality in the world.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    Senior Reader Senior Contributor entropy's Avatar
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    I always have this question:

    Where will an electric car get electricity?

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    Military Professional Ryan Bailey's Avatar
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    Post On My EV Bullishness

    The electric is in actuality as old if not older than the combustion powered vehicle.

    I am a capitalist and as such expect to see success of EVs based on market demands; "give the people what they want", i.e. although admittedly batteries have drawbacks, primarily weather effects, the people want: max torque power at zero RPMs, zero emmissions, zero refueling, energy independence, increased operating capabilities, silent running, speed, class, style; all of which EVs excel at.

    In short once you drive an EV once you never want to drive anything else ever again.

    We disregard capitalism at our own peril. Western governments have been bailing out & artificially propping up companies, willy-nilly, more communist than capitalist. This includes the combustion engine. Charles Wilson before the US Senate said, "what was good for the country was good for General Motors". The Auto sector has been a sacred cow subsidized up by Dow-ists in Washington, to the detriment of the market. Simple capitalism v. communism here, folks. Markets stifle, things fall apart.

    Be encouraged. as the old addage goes; "if you teach a parrot to say supply & demand, you've got an economist". I predict that the demand for EVs is approaching an all time high mostly due to widespread education regarding their advantages and widespread disillusionment with dependency on perishable and/or pollutive resources, particularly those artificially staked to poor global logistics and unstable regions of the world.

    For these reasons I am bullish on the EV, now more than ever.
    "If we will not be governed by God then we will be ruled by tyrants" -William Penn

  13. #13
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    I want to drive 300 miles on a single charge. And when I run out, I want to stop by a charging station for 5 minutes to completely recharge my batteries.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    Military Professional Ryan Bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    I want to drive 300 miles on a single charge. And when I run out, I want to stop by a charging station for 5 minutes to completely recharge my batteries.
    Yes Friend, a market is based on appeitites as in your "want" for certain attributes in vehicles.....Give the people what they want.

    The happy thought here is that I support your right to have said vehicle.
    "If we will not be governed by God then we will be ruled by tyrants" -William Penn

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