View Poll Results: Do you think AGW is real? Please check the proper one for nationality.

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  • AGW is real-American member

    19 18.81%
  • AGW is real-Non-American member

    24 23.76%
  • AGW is not real-American member

    40 39.60%
  • AGW is not real-Non American member

    18 17.82%
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Thread: Global Warming...Fact or Fiction?

  1. #31
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    gunnut,

    Google is a left leaning socialist tree hugging search engine. I'm not saying they are biased
    LOL, that has to be the best line of the day today.

    you know though, biased or not it is one of my fantasies to work for those guys. which other company hires four-star chefs to cook at their cafeterias? and has a working gym and recreation room in the work place?
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  2. #32
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    gunnut,



    LOL, that has to be the best line of the day today.

    you know though, biased or not it is one of my fantasies to work for those guys. which other company hires four-star chefs to cook at their cafeterias? and has a working gym and recreation room in the work place?
    I aim to entertain our board members to the best of my ability.

    Maybe not 4-star chefs, but many companies have gyms and recreation rooms for their employees. I don't know how elaborate Google's is though.

    Personally I would like to work for a company that has an ice rink on site that I can use whenever. Probably not gonna happen...
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  3. #33
    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakebomb View Post
    Ive heard this before from several people, but Ive searched google up and down, and kind find any documentation on it.

    Can you share your sources?
    Well, these aren't the exact articles I've read, but a quick "earth cooling" into Google and I get, for instance:

    One cooling!

    Two cooling!

    Three cooling! Ah - ah -AHH!"

    I love to cool!

    -dale

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    Because they're a pile of ignorant f*cksticks.

    -dale
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Thats what i was thinking, but you said it nicer than me.

  5. #35
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    You know what really pisses me off? NASA have removed all satellite temperature data from their public access website. You're no longer allowed to view the raw data, only read press statements about how it's unimportant.
    If the science doesn't agree, just delete it.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    You know what really pisses me off? NASA have removed all satellite temperature data from their public access website. You're no longer allowed to view the raw data, only read press statements about how it's unimportant.
    If the science doesn't agree, just delete it.
    OOOHHH, I smell conspiracy........or is it agenda!!!?

  7. #37
    FreeGeneral Senior Contributor Big K's Avatar
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    it is not a fiction...

    believe or not.

    it is real that we all are killing our planets human-friendly environment...
    Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

  8. #38
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    Okay

    Where do I start ), first I'm going to give my opinion - all in good humour and with the arrogance of youth (emphasis that it is arrogance not ignorance because when it comes to Climate change the oldies ARE NOT informed at all ) and then explain why I think so.

    I believe that Climate change is real and that we are not in a weather cycle. Ice ages etc require a triggering event to occur; sometimes something as dramatic as an asteroid or smaller but relatively large in scale. The same goes for warming up cycles which really are known to occur after ice ages and i am not talking about heating up to return to normal temperatures before the iceage but to mean temperatures that are slightly higher than that period. We have seen no natural occurence on a large scale to cause the heating of the earth curently.

    All this and more is taught at school now, atleast in Australia, and I am pretty sure it wasn't 30 or more years ago, so others are informed in newspapers and TV docos where a light graze over the info is given, a small number buy a book about climate change or take the time to research in depth Climate change. Although I would say most reading this thread would be more informed than normal. I'm 21 by the way

    I would be curious to know the age of all those who do not believe in climate change if you feel comfortable saying, my bet is that all the previous Australian posters of this opinion are over 30.

    Do you agree that the waste smoke let off by energy producing factories; fossil fuels coal-the most widely used energy producing fuel eg Australia, China - is predominantly made up of carbon?

    Do you agree that there is more carbon in the air/atmosphere than there was 200yrs ago? If yes then you are halfway there

    Do you agree that there are less trees on earth then 200 yrs ago or at the least less tree density in now urbanized areas?

    Do you believe in photosynthesis; which involves the absorbtion of carbon WITH light to create oxygen

    Do you believe in the sunstances that reflect UV rays which exist in the atmosphere called Ozone and that CFC's can destroy this substance and create a hole in the atmosphere that lets in UV rays?

    All of the above questions concern information that is scientifically proven.

    As carbon atoms in the air/atmosphere are hit by sunlight, the light causes the atoms to heat up. It is not only carbon atoms but many foreign substances that also make up the polution pumped out of energy producing factories and vehicles also absorb light and heat up, eg Carbon Monoxide from cars.

    If there is more carbon in the atmosphere today than what was naturally occuring 200 yrs ago, and there are less trees to absorb carbon, then there is more heat in the atmosphere today thus air temperatures are hotter, thus cold climate areas (aswell as other areas) are going to become warmer than they were, so north and south poles will become warmer - what happens to ice when you add heat?

    So, more liquid water on the earth, oceans rise and.....more importantly COOL, because the water coming from the caps is melted but its not warm. Cooler sea temps with warmer air = cyclones/Hurricanes therefore the more frequent occurance of them or with greater strength. Pacific islands on low sea level islands disappear. Tropical reefs survive in specific water temperatures that are warmer than most oceans around 20 celcius, so cooling temps will affect them. Then its a chain reaction, no reef no coral, no coral no fish etc.

  9. #39
    FreeGeneral Senior Contributor Big K's Avatar
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    hahahahaha hey Aussie, you have a friend here
    Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

  10. #40
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    Lindzen recieved $2500 a day from oil and coal interests for his services.1,2, 3 His article c"Global Warming: the Origin and Nature of Alleged Scientific Consensus," was underwritten by OPEC.1 Lindzen has lectured at numerous Cooler Heads Coalition meetings. The Cooler Heads Coalition is funded by CEI which is in turn funded by Exxon Mobil. He has also given talks for the George C. Marshall Institute which is also funded by Exxon Mobil. His connections to the oil, coal, and even tobacco industry are apparently rather extensive. Here is one listof many that is worth exploring. Richard Lindzen claims he is currently not recieving any handouts from oil companies.

    Lindzen also has a habit of disagreeing with other people. According to SEED magazine: "His former graduate students describe him as fiercely intelligent, with a deep contrarian streak." One of Lindzens own MIT students, Kirk-Davidoff, has said "If you want to prove yourself a brilliant scientist, you don't always agree with the consensus," "You show you're right and everyone else is wrong. He certainly enjoys showing he's right and everyone else is wrong, If you have a ten minute conversation with him, you can tell that."



    * Will he put his money where his mouth is?



    He claimed to be willing to accept bets on the future climate during an interview with Reason magazine. Reason printed “Richard Lindzen says he's willing to take bets that global average temperatures in 20 years will in fact be lower than they are now.” When Annan approached him and tried to accept the bet Lindzen seemed to carry a different tune. The following is from James Annan’s personal website:



    “Richard Lindzen will indeed accept a bet - but only if offered odds of 50:1 in his favour! He actually started out quoting 100:1 - but came down to 50:1 in what he described as a special favour to me. If the temperatures went down, I was to hand over $10,000, but in the event of a rise, I'd get a whopping $200. That's worth around
    $8 per year on my pension. Whoop-de-do
    ok so that skeptic will take 50 to 1 odds that he is right??? MMM he gets a lot of cash from the industries dependent on the continued co2 flush into the atmosphere

    limate change critics like Richard Lindzen try to say "There's no consensus on global warming." in the Wall Street Journal, in front of Congress, and many other places. This argument has also been made repeatedly on Fox News.1,2 Other researchers like Dean Dr. Mark H. Thiemens say this "has nothing to do with reality".1,2,3 The following is a list of quotes from scientific organizations, academies, scientists, industry spokesmen, etc supporting the existence of man made climate change and the need to take action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Many of these quotes reference the IPCC or Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change which is widely regarded by mainstream scientists as either the "most reliable" or one of the most reliable sources for accurate information on climate change. As you will notice, the evidence against the consensus critics like Lindzen and pundits on Fox News is overwhelming. If you are confused as to whose opinion matters, just pay attention to the peer review science journals and the National Academy of Sciences. For those that don't know, the National Academies are like the Supreme Court of science. The number of climate scientists in the US can be found by examining the members of the American Geophysical Union (AGU). As of November 10, 2006 we know that there is a minimum (no official count of foreign climatologists is available) of 20,000 working climatologists worldwide 1,2. An important fact to remember is that many high profile critics you see in the news do not qualify as climate scientists when these standards are applied. Keep both of these concepts in mind the next time you see a handful of self proclaiming "climate scientists" with dissenting opinions. It is also important to note that Exxon Mobil is funding a $10,000 bounty for climate denialists and skeptics. If only 2% of the 20,000 climatologists were bought out then we'd have 400 deniers (skeptics are convinced by science not money). If you have suggestions for the addition of other quotes please post them at our blog.
    Index
    International Statements
    Individual Societies and Organizations
    Peer Review Scientific Journals
    Individual Scientists (including a 11,885+ long petition) Industry
    Military
    Religion
    Administrative Officials
    Mainstream Media
    Politicians

    International Statements
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    Below is a list of joint statements calling for action on mitigating climate change. The National Academies representing the 21 following countries and districts have signed joint statements:
    Australia
    Belgium
    Brazil
    Caribbean
    Canada China
    France
    Germany
    India
    Indonesia Ireland
    Italy
    Japan
    Malaysia
    Mexico New Zealand
    Russia
    South Africa
    Switzerland
    United Kingdom United States

    G8 Statement

    National Academy of Sciences: 2007 Joint science academies’ statement on growth and responsibility: sustainability, energy efficiency and climate protection:

    The problem is not yet insoluble, but becomes more difficult with each passing day. A goal of confining global warming to an average of 2 centigrade degrees above pre-industrial levels would be very challenging, and even this amount of warming would be likely to have some severe impacts. . . .

    We call on world leaders, especially those meeting at the G8 Summit in June 2007, to:
    • Set standards and promote economic instruments for efficiency, and commit to promoting energy efficiency for buildings, devices, motors, transportation systems
    and in the energy sector itself.
    • Promote understanding of climate and energy issues and encourage necessary behavioural changes within our societies.
    • Define and implement measures to reduce global deforestation.
    • Strengthen economic and technological exchange with developing countries, in order to leapfrog to cleaner and more efficient modern technologies.
    • Invest strongly in science and technology related to energy efficiency, zero-carbon energy resources and carbon-removing technologies.

    1. Academia Brasileira de Ciéncias,Brazil
    2. Académie des Sciences, France
    3. Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy
    4. Russian Academy of Sciences, Russia
    5. National Academy of Sciences, United States of America
    6. Royal Society of Canada, Canada
    7. Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina, Germany
    8. Science Council of Japan, Japan
    9. Academy of Science of South Africa, South Africa
    10. Chinese Academy of Sciences, China
    11. Indian National Science Academy, India
    12. Academia Mexicana de Ciencias, Mexico
    13. Royal Society, United Kingdom

    Joint Statement I

    Here is a press release from the National Academy of Sciences (USA) which opens with the words “Climate Change is real”. It’s conclusion begins with “We urge all nations, in the line with the UNFCCC principles, to take prompt action to reduce the causes of climate change, adapt to its impacts and ensure that the issue is included in all relevant national and international strategies.” It recognizes the international consensus of the IPCC (2001), IEA (2004), and UNFCCC. It is signed by:



    1. National Academy of Sciences, United States of America
    2. Chinese Academy of Sciences, China
    3. Royal Society, United Kingdom
    4. Russian Academy of Sciences, Russia
    5. Academia Brasiliera de Ciências, Brazil
    6. Royal Society of Canada, Canada
    7. Academié des Sciences, France
    8. Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher, Germany
    9. Indian National Science Academy, India
    10. Accademia dei Lincei, Italy
    11. Science Council of Japan, Japan



    Joint Statement II

    Here is another press release from the Royal Society (UK) which says “The work of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) represents the consensus of the international scientific community on climate change science. We recognise* IPCC as the world’s most reliable source of information on climate change and its causes”. It is signed by:



    1. Australian Academy of Sciences
    2. Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts
    3. Brazilian Academy of Sciences
    4. Royal Society of Canada
    5. Caribbean Academy of Sciences
    6. Chinese Academy of Sciences
    7. French Academy of Sciences
    8. German Academy of Natural Scientists Leopoldina
    9. Indian National Science Academy
    10. Indonesian Academy of Sciences
    11. Royal Irish Academy
    12. Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei (Italy)
    13. Academy of Sciences Malaysia
    14. Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand
    15. Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
    16. Royal Society (UK)

    *recognise is the british spelling of recognize



    Individual Societies and Organizations Not Listed Above
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    Union of Concerned Scientists

    Global warming is one of the most serious challenges facing us today. To protect the health and economic well-being of current and future generations, we must reduce our emissions of heat-trapping gases by using the technology, know-how, and practical solutions already at our disposal."1

    Woods Hole Research Center

    "We may recall the extensive and incredibly successful campaign of the American tobacco companies to conceal the link between cancer and the use of tobacco products. For decades, they knew the reality of the addictive nature of nicotine and the carcinogenic effects of tobacco use. For decades, they successfully kept that reality hidden from the American public. The oil, coal, gas, and mining industries stand to lose tremendously if the truth about global warming becomes accepted by American society. As the tobacco industry invested millions in keeping its deadly secret, so also have the oil, coal, gas, and mining industries attempted to hide and discredit the link between CO2 emissions and a warming earth."1

    Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)

    Third Assessment Report (2001)
    Fourth Assessment Report ( 2007)

    United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC)

    Even the minimum predicted shifts in climate for the 21st century are likely to be significant and disruptive.”1

    American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)

    The scientific evidence is clear: global climate change caused by human activities is occurring now, and it is a growing threat to society [snip]The conclusions in this statement reflect the scientific consensus
    represented by, for example, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), and the Joint National Academies’ statement (http://nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf)..- AAAS Board Statement on Climate Change Approved by the AAAS Board of Directors 9 December 2006

    "AAAS President John P. Holdren and CEO Alan I. Leshner Sunday called for the U.S. public and their leaders to “muster the political will for serious evasive action” to address climate change. Writing in the San Francisco Chronicle, the two AAAS leaders said that there can be no doubt about the reality of climate change."1

    American Meteorological Society (AMS)

    The American Meteorological Society endorses the "Joint Academies' Statement: Global Response to Climate Change" released by the national academies of science of 11 countries, including the U.S., on 7 June 2005.”1

    "Human activities have become a major source of environmental change. Of great urgency are the climate consequences of the increasing atmospheric abundance of greenhouse gases and other trace constituents ... [that] interact strongly with the Earth's energy balance, resulting in the prospect of significant global warming. ... Because greenhouse gases continue to increase, we are, in effect, conducting a global climate experiment, neither planned nor controlled, the results of which may present unprecedented challenges to our wisdom and foresight as well as have significant impacts on our natural and societal systems. It is a long-term problem that requires a long-term perspective. Important decisions confront current and future national and world leaders." - Bull. Amer. Met. Soc., 84, 508—515

    National Research Council

    The following assessment was produced by the NRC, a branch of the National Academies of Sciences, at the request of the White House in 2001:

    "Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth's atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise. Temperatures are, in fact, rising. The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities, but we cannot rule out that some significant part of these changes is also a reflection of natural variability. Human-induced warming and associated sea level rises are expected to continue through the 21st century. ... The impacts of [climate change] will be critically dependent on the magnitude of the warming and the rate with which it occurs." - Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questiosn, 2001

    Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS)

    "CMOS endorses the process of periodic climate science assessment carried out by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and supports the conclusion, in its Third Assessment Report, which states that the balance of evidence suggests a discernible human influence on global climate." 1

    Federal Climate Change Science Program

    Discrepancies between the data sets and the models have been reduced and our understanding of observed climate changes and their causes has increased. Given this, there is no longer sufficient evidence to conclude that there exists any notable discrepancy between our understanding of recent global average temperature changes and model simulations of these changes. This represents a change from conclusions of earlier reports (see above) and should constitute a valuable source of information to policymakers.”1, 2, 3

    National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)

    While Milankovitch cycles have tremendous value as a theory to explain ice-ages and long-term changes in the climate, they are unlikely to have very much impact on the decade-century timescale. Over several centuries, it may be possible to observe the effect of these orbital parameters, however for the prediction of climate change in the 21st century, these changes will be far less important than radiative forcing from greenhouse gases.” 1

    UN Project on Climate Variability and Predictability

    Video of their Chairman, Tim Palmer

    American Geophysical Union

    Because human activities are contributing to and accelerating climate change, we have a collective responsibility to develop and undertake carefully considered response actions.”1

    "Human activities are increasingly altering the Earth's climate. These effects add to natural influences that have been present over Earth's history. Scientific evidence strongly indicates that natural influences cannot explain the rapid increase in global near-surface temperatures observed during the second half of the 20th century. ... A particular concern is that atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide may be rising faster than at any time in Earth's history, except possibly following rare events like impacts from large extraterrestrial objects. ... Moreover, research indicates that increased levels of carbon dioxide will remain in the atmosphere for hundreds to thousands of years. It is virtually certain that increasing atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases will cause global surface climate to be warmer. ... The unprecedented increases in greenhouse gas concentrations, together with other human influences on climate over the past century and those anticipated for the future, constitute a real basis for concern." - Human Impacts on Climate, 2003

    Geological Society of America

    "The Geological Society of America (GSA) supports the scientific conclusions that Earth’s climate is changing; the climate changes are due in part to human activities; and the probable consequences of the climate changes will be significant and blind to geopolitical boundaries. Furthermore, the potential implications of global climate change and the time scale over which such changes will likely occur require active, effective, long-term planning. ... GSA strongly encourages that the following efforts be undertaken internationally: (1) adequately research climate change at all time scales, (2) develop thoughtful, science-based policy appropriate for the multifaceted issues of global climate change, (3) organize global planning to recognize, prepare for, and adapt to the causes and consequences of global climate change, and (4) organize and develop comprehensive, long-term strategies for sustainable energy, particularly focused on minimizing impacts on global climate."- Position Statement, Global Climate Change, 2006

    American Chemical Society - (world's largest scientific organization with over 155,000 members)

    "Accumulating evidence clearly shows that our environment and the global climate system are changing. Global average temperatures, atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations, sea levels, and extreme weather events are on the rise. ... There is now general agreement among scientific experts that the recent warming trend is real (and particularly strong within the past 20 years), that most of the observed warming is likely due to increased atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations, and that climate change could have serious adverse effects by the end of this century. ... In addition to climate research, scientists, industry, and government should implement measures to cost-effectively protect the climate and intensify efforts to develop technologies that—in addition to meeting other societal goals—could help us mitigate and adapt to the potential effects of climate change." - Global Climate Change, 2004

    Federal Climate Change Science Program, 2006 - commissioned by the Bush administration in 2002

    Studies ... show clear evidence of human influences on the climate system (due to changes in greenhouse gases, aerosols, and stratospheric ozone). ... The observed patterns of change over the past 50 years cannot be explained by natural processes alone, nor by the effects of short-lived atmospheric constituents (such as aerosols and tropospheric ozone) alone. -Source

    Stratigraphy Commission - Geological Society of London - The world's oldest and the United Kingdom's largest geoscience organization

    "Global climate change is increasingly recognised as the key threat to the continued development – and even survival - of humanity. ... We find that the evidence for human-induced climate change is now persuasive, and the need for direct action compelling." -

    Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia)

    "Engineers Australia believes that Australia must act swiftly and proactively in line with global expectations to address climate change as an economic, social and environmental risk... We believe that addressing the costs of atmospheric emissions will lead to increasing our competitive advantage by minimising risks and creating new economic opportunities. Engineers Australia believes the Australian Government should ratify the Kyoto Protocol." -Source

    American Association of State Climatologists

    "The AASC recognizes that human activities have an influence on the climate system. Such activities, however, are not limited to greenhouse gas forcing and include changing land use and sulfate emissions, which further complicates the issue of climate prediction. Furthermore, climate predictions have not demonstrated skill in projecting future variability and changes in such important climate conditions as growing season, drought, flood-producing rainfall, heat waves, tropical cyclones and winter storms. These are the type of events that have a more significant impact on society than annual average global temperature trends. ... The difficulty of prediction and the impossibility of verification of predictions decades into the future are important factors that allow for competing views of the long-term climate future. Therefore, the AASC recommends that policies related to long-term climate not be based on particular predictions, but instead should focus on policy alternatives that make sense for a wide range of plausible climatic conditions regardless of future climate. ... [O]ngoing political debate about global energy policy should not stand in the way of common sense action to reduce societal and environmental vulnerabilities to climate variability and change." - Policy Statement on Climate Variability and Change by the American Association of State Climatologists (AASC)

    US Geological Survey (USGS)

    The most authoritative report on this issue is Climate Change 1995: IPCC Second Assessment Report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which is part of the United Nations Environmental Programme. The IPCC has a large amount of information on their web site dealing with this topic.Geochange FAQ

    National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)

    To slow the rate of climate change, we can decrease the amount of carbon dioxide that we release into the atmosphere.”12

    NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS)

    From my perspective, strong evidence is already accumulating that weighs heavily against the skeptics contentions that there is no significant global warming and that climate sensitivity is low.”1 –Dr. James Hansen, lead climate scientist and director of Goddard

    Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute – Ocean and Climate Change Institute

    Global warming is pretty well accepted by the scientific community. Because greenhouse gas concentrations are projected to continue rising throughout the next century, our expectations over the next 100 or 200 years are that we will continue to see an upward trend in temperatures.”1

    World Meteorological Organization

    WMO Stresses Importance of Adaptation Strategies to Complement Climate Change Mitigation Efforts”1

    United Nations Environment Program

    The potential consequences of climate change are profound, particularly on people in the less developed countries. The question is therefore not whether climate change is happening, but what to do about it.”1

    Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospherice Sciences

    90 Canadian climate science leaders from the academic, public and private sectors sent the Prime Minister of Canada an open letter. It says "We concur with the climate science assessment of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) in 2001,.....We urge you and your government to develop an effective national strategy to deal with the many important aspects of climate that will affect both Canada and the rest of the world in the near future."1

    International Council on Science

    "The Earth’s environment is changing due to human activities, and is undermining sustainable development"1

    State of the Canadian Cryosphere (SOCC)

    http://www.socc.ca/permafrost/permafrost_future_e.cfm

    Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)

    EPA : EPA Global Warming Site

    American Astronomical Society

    In endorsing the "Human Impacts on Climate" statement, the AAS recognizes the collective expertise of the AGU in scientific subfields central to assessing and understanding global change, and acknowledges the strength of agreement among our AGU colleagues that the global climate is changing and human activities are contributing to that change. -American Astronomical Society, 2004

    The Australian Meteorological And Oceanographic Society

    The greenhouse effect is a natural and well-understood phenomenon [snip]

    Most of the observed warming is highly likely due to human activity
    It is highly likely that those human activities that have increased the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere have been largely responsible for the observed warming since 1950. The warming associated with increases in greenhouse gases originating from human activity is called the enhanced greenhouse effect. The atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide has increased by more than 30% since the start of the industrial age and is higher now than at any time in at least the past 650,000 years. This increase is a direct result of burning fossil fuels, broad-scale deforestation and other human activity. Concentrations of a range of other potent greenhouse gases, such as CFCs[4], methane and nitrous oxide, have increased also as a result of human activity, and have contributed to the observed warming. Conversely, some other by-products of human activity, most notably industrial aerosols, have had a cooling effect on the atmosphere, and have offset some of the warming from the enhanced greenhouse effect. - The Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society Statement on Climate Change

    American Institute of Physics

    The Governing Board of the American Institute of Physics has endorsed a position statement on climate change adopted by the American Geophysical Union (AGU) Council in December 2003.- American Institute of Physics, 2003

    Pew Center on Climate Change

    The scientific community has reached a strong consensus regarding the science of global climate change. The world is undoubtedly warming. This warming is largely the result of emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases from human activities... - Global Warming Basics

    World Wildlife Fund

    Climate change is among the most pervasive threats to the web of life, yet we have the power to address its root causes and limit its impact on the planet. Smart energy choices made by individuals and businesses can dramatically reduce CO2 emissions and slow global warming. Without action, climate change will cause the extinction of countless species and destroy some of the world's most precious ecosystems. - WWF - Climate

    Peer Review Scientific Journals
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    Science / AAAS

    In addition, a paper published in the premier scientific journal Science describes a survey of peer review journals from 1993-2003 containing the words “global climate change”. Of the 928 papers surveyed not a single paper disagreed with the scientific consensus. Naomi Oreskes describes her paper via an op-ed in the Washington Post.

    We read 928 abstracts published in scientific journals between 1993 and 2003 and listed in the database with the keywords "global climate change." Seventy-five percent of the papers either explicitly or implicitly accepted the consensus view. The remaining 25 percent dealt with other facets of the subject, taking no position on whether current climate change is caused by human activity. None of the papers disagreed with the consensus position.”

    Individual Scientists
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    The Petition - 11,885+ individual scientists listed by name

    A petition signed by 52 Nobel Laureates, 63 National Medal of Science recipients, 195 members of the National Academies, and over 11,885+ other scientists criticizing the misuse and politicization of science in Washington. The list is continually growing so these are minimum numbers. Here is an excerpt from that petition:

    “For example, in support of the president’s decision to avoid regulating emissions that cause climate change, the administration has consistently misrepresented the findings of the National Academy of Sciences, government scientists, and the expert community at large. Thus in June 2003, the White House demanded extensive changes in the treatment of climate change in a major report by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). To avoid issuing a scientifically indefensible report, EPA officials eviscerated the discussion of climate change and its consequences.”

    Texas A&M - Department of Atmospheric Sciences Unanimous Endorsement of the IPCC

    We, the tenured and tenure-track faculty of the Dept. of Atmospheric Sciences of Texas A&M, agree with the recent reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change that:

    1. It is virtually certain that the climate is warming, and that it has warmed by about 0.7 deg. C over the last 100 years.
    2. It is very likely that humans are responsible for most of the recent warming.
    3. If we do nothing to reduce our emissions of greenhouse gases, future warming will likely be at least two degrees Celsius over the next century.
    4. Such a climate change brings with it a risk of serious adverse impacts on our environment and society.

    Kenneth Bowman
    Sarah D. Brooks
    Larry Carey
    Ping Chang
    Don Collins
    Andrew Dessler
    Robert Duce
    Craig Epifanio
    Rob Korty
    Mark Lemmon
    Don Lucas
    Shaima L. Nasiri
    John Nielsen-Gammon
    Gerald North
    Richard Orville
    Lee Panetta
    R. Saravanan
    Gunnar W. Schade
    Courtney Schumacher
    Thomas Wilheit
    Ping Yang
    Fuqing Zhang
    Renyi Zhang

    Sources:
    Thebatt.com, Changes on the way Department unanimously endorses climate report, Kristin Leveille 7/10/07
    Dept Texas A&M statement

    Scientific Consensus Statement on the Likely Impacts of Climate Change on the Pacific Northwest - June 15, 2004

    The signatories of this consensus statement agree with the scientific findings about climate change as reported in the Third Assessment Report of Working Group I of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), published in 2001. [snip] The statement is signed by 50 Ph.D.-level scientists with expertise on the impacts of climate change in the Pacific Northwest. Names of the signatories appear below.....

    Realclimate.org articles

    “One could debate whether overwhelming consensus is adequate grounds for action on climate change, but there are no grounds for debating whether such consensus actually exists.”1

    More articles at:

    Statistical analysis of consensus

    The Wall Street Journal vs. The Scientific Consensus

    Just what is this Consensus anyway?


    NASA's Gavin Schmidt

    "Regardless of these spats, the fact that the community overwhelmingly supports the consensus is evidenced by picking up any copy of Journal of Climate or similar, any scientific program at the AGU or EGU meetings, or simply going to talk to scientists (not the famous ones, the ones at your local university or federal lab). I challenge you, if you think there is some un-reported division, show me the hundreds of abstracts at the Fall meeting (the biggest confernce in the US on this topic) that support your view - you won't be able to. You can argue whether the consensus is correct, or what it really implies, but you can't credibly argue it doesn't exist." -gavin

    Stephen H. Schneider Ph.D. - Professor at Stanford University

    A handful of "contrarian" scientists and public figures who are not scientists have challenged mainstream climatologists' conclusions that the warming of the last few decades has been extraordinary and that at least part of this warming has been anthropogenically induced. What must be emphasized here is that, despite the length of this section, there are truly only a handful of climatologist contrarians relative to the number of mainstream climatologists out there. - Contrarians

    Dr. James Baker - NOAA

    "There's a better scientific consensus on this [climate change] than on any issue I know - except maybe Newton's second law of dynamics". -Deltoid, ECOS Letter

    Michael Tobis Ph.D. - University of Texas Institute for Geophysics

    It's easy to refute all the contrarian arguments but that seems to have very little effect on how commonly they are believed. Refuted arguments seem to live on in the public imagination. To bring the public on board to a rational discussion of climate policy needs more than logical argument. So what should we actually do? -Only In it For The Gold

    Steven Sherwood Ph.D. - Yale

    "Things being debated now are details about the models," ... "Nobody is debating any more that significant climate changes are coming." - NYT's, Errors Cited in Assessing Climate Data, ANDREW C. REVKIN, Aug, 12, 2005

    Steven Hawking

    "very worried about global warming." -Steven Hawking, China Daily, ABC (correction by gavin schmidt for accuracy)

    Jerry Mahlman, NOAA

    "Global warming is almost a no-brainer at this point," said Mahlman, who lives now on a mountain in Colorado. "You really can't find intelligent, quantitative arguments to make it go away." - The Star Ledger, Tempest brews in weather think tank

    MIT

    Video Link

    Jason Pontin - MIT's Technology Review

    Video Link

    Industry
    anchor
    Shell Oil Co.

    "It's a waste of time to debate it," he said. "Policymakers have a responsibility to address it. The nation needs a public policy. We'll adjust." - President John Hofmeister : MSNBC: Shell Oil chief: U.S. needs global warming plan


    Munich Re: Insurance

    "We need to stop this dangerous experiment humankind is conducting on the Earth's atmosphere." - Thomas Loster

    14 Corporate leaders urging the Prime Minister to take bold action on climate change

    "In May 2005 the Corporate Leaders Group on Climate Change wrote to you about the need to take urgent action on climate change. We welcomed the leadership that the Government had shown internationally and offered to work in partnership with you." ... "Bold leadership on domestic climate change policy has the potential to deliver significant economic benefits to the UK. " 1, 2

    Which is signed by:

    1. Bart Becht, Chief Executive Officer, Reckitt Benckiser
    2. Neil Carson, Chief Executive, Johnson Matthey
    3. Ian Cheshire, Chief Executive, B&Q
    4. Mike Clasper, Chief Executive, BAA
    5. Jonson Cox, Chief Executive, Anglian Water Group
    6. Mervyn Davies, Group Chief Executive, Standard Chartered Bank
    7. Alain Grisay, Chief Executive, F&C Asset Management
    8. Sir Stuart Hampson, Executive Chairman, John Lewis Partnership
    9. Sir Julian Horn-Smith, Deputy Chief Executive, Vodafone Group
    10. Gavin Neath, National Manager, Unilever U.K.
    11. Lucy Neville-Rolfe, Company Secretary and Group Corporate and Legal Affairs Director, Tesco
    12. Trudy Norris-Grey, Managing Director UK & Ireland, Sun Microsystems
    13. Hugh Scott-Barrett, Chief Financial Officer, ABN Amro
    14. James Smith, Chairman, Shell U.K. Limited



    18 Major Canadian Industries

    The following is from a letter given at the Montreal Conference:

    Our organizations accept that a strong response is required to the strengthening evidence in the scientific assessments of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). We accept the IPCC consensus that climate change raises the risk of severe consequences for human health and security and the environment.” -[PDF] which is signed by:

    1. Travis Engen, President & CEO, Alcan Inc.
    2. Bob Elton, President & CEO, BC Hydro
    3. Laurent Beaudoin, Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer, Bombardier Inc.
    4. Russell Horner, President & CEO, Catalyst Paper Corporation
    5. John Murray, President, CH2MHILL Canada Ltd.
    6. Alban D’Amours, President & CEO, Desjardins Group
    7. George Cooke, President & CEO, The Dominion of Canada General Insurance Company
    8. Doug Muzyka, President & CEO, DuPont Canada
    9. Derek Pannell, President & CEO, Falconbridge Limited
    10. Annette Verschuren, President, The Home Depot Canada
    11. David Wilmot, Chair, Institute for Catastrophic Loss Reduction
    12. John R. Wells, President & CEO, Interface Americas
    13. Brian Foody, President & CEO, Iogen Corporation
    14. Jack Cogen, President & CEO, Natsource Asset Management
    15. André Desmarais, President & Co-CEO, Power Corporation
    16. Clive Mather, President & CEO, Shell Canada
    17. Frank Dottori, President & CEO, Tembec Inc.
    18. Gregg Hanson, President & CEO, The Wawanesa Mutual Insurance Company

    Virgin Trains and Virgin Atlantic

    Sir Richard Branson is to invest $3bn (£1.6bn) to fight global warming. The Virgin boss said he would commit all profits from his travel firms, such as airline Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Trains, over the next 10 years. "We must rapidly wean ourselves off our dependence on coal and fossil fuels," Sir Richard said. - BBC: Branson makes $3bn climate pledge

    British Petroleum

    "Companies composed of highly skilled and trained people can't live in denial of mounting evidence gathered by hundreds of the most reputable scientists in the world."1,2 - Lord Browne. CEO

    Wal-Mart

    "Global warming is real, now, and it must be addressed." 1, 2, 3 - Lee Scott., CEO

    Cinergy

    If we stonewall this thing [carbon limitations] to five years out, all of a sudden the cost to us and ultimately to our consumers can be gigantic,"1 – James E. Rogers, manager of 20 coal fire plants

    DuPont

    "we came to the conclusion that the science was compelling and that action should be taken," 1 - Charles O. "Chad" Holliday Jr., CEO

    Swiss Re. – (The world's second largest reinsurance company1,2)

    "Risk of climate change is real. It's here. It's affecting our business today," 1 - John Coomber, CEO

    "Property. Life. Health. Crops. D&O -- you name it. It's the perfect storm for insurers." 1 - Chris Walker, managing director, Swiss Re's Greenhouse Gas Risk Solutions

    "Climate change is a phenomenon that is starting to have a major impact on Swiss Re, its partners and clients. The question is no longer whether global warming is happening, but how it will affect our business, as well as our personal lives." -CEO John Coomber, sponser of the documentary The Great Warming.

    Fitch Ratings Ltd.

    "Global warming is on the radar screen of a lot of financial institutions," 1 - Denise Furey, senior director, Fitch Ratings Ltd.

    Turner Construction

    Even the chance that [global warming] is a real issue should motivate each and every one of us to action,"1 - Thomas Leppert, CEO

    ;Goldman Sachs

    "We support the need for a national policy to limit greenhouse gas emissions" -Environmental Policy Framework

    JPMorgan Chase

    "JPMorgan Chase advocates the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions." -Environmental Policy

    "[JPMorgan advocates] that the US government adopt a market-based national policy on greenhouse gas emissions, which includes all sources of emissions and is fair. Options include either a cap-and-trade or tax policy to reduce greenhouse gas emissions at the lowest possible cost. " - Climate change policy

    General Electric

    Ecomagination

    Duke Energy

    "I have become personally engaged in one such issue—global climate change. In the past, Duke Energy has supported voluntary efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. In 2005, we decided it was time to take a more proactive leadership role and promote a federal, economy wide U.S. policy. We believe the best approach is a carbon tax, which would address greenhouse gas emissions from all sectors of the economy. A carbon tax would provide conservation incentives for everyone. It would promote higher utilization of power plants that are low emitters of carbon, and encourage low-carbon fuel choices for the future." -Paul Anderson, Chairman and CEO

    NRG Energy

    "companies and industries which deny the issue will be marginalized." - physorg,Power execs foresee carbon emission caps

    Statoil

    Has been working with BP on climate change mitigation since 1998.

    Citigroup

    Since 2002, Citigroup has collected data on the energy used in the 13,000 buildings that we own or lease globally in order to track and manage our greenhouse gas emissions as well as other elements of our environmental footprint. Earlier this year, Citigroup announced a goal to reduce our global emissions by 10%, from our 2005 level, by the year 2011. To further this effort, we have joined the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Climate Leaders Program, an industry-government partnership of leaders that are adopting aggressive goals to reduce emissions at facilities. -Climate Policy

    Pfizer

    To contribute to the world's efforts to reduce GHG emissions, we joined the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Climate Leaders program in 2002. - Climate Policy

    AstraZeneca

    "We are committed to minimising our impact on climate change" - Climate policyAn increase in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is widely thought by climate scientists to be causing a rise in the earth’s temperature, leading to climate change.

    GlaxoSmithKline

    "In 2004 we developed a draft position statement on our future use of energy, which will be finalised in 2005. This was in response to feedback showing that energy use is a key area of concern among our stakeholders. The draft position sets out a strategy for reducing greenhouse gas emissions through energy efficiency, renewable energy and emissions trading. It also acknowledges that climate change may affect disease patterns and proposes that GSK should support research to help society plan for the consequences of climate change." - Responsibility Report 2004

    Business for Social Responsibility

    "The global consequences of climate change - some of which we are seeing already - threaten to both disrupt natural ecosystem functions and jeopardize the natural capital that provides the economy's resource base." - Climate Change

    EPA's Climate Leaders Program

    Partners | Climate Leaders | US EPA

    6 Business leaders including Westpac's CEO David Morgan

    Their message is that Australia, and the world, needs to deeply cut greenhouse emissions, not just slow their growth. We cannot get there on the soft path the Government has taken. We need to switch paths, get tough, introduce a carbon charge, set targets and meet them. - The Age, Time to make tough choices on climate change

    Military & Military Think Tanks
    anchor
    The Pentagon

    The document predicts that abrupt climate change could bring the planet to the edge of anarchy as countries develop a nuclear threat to defend and secure dwindling food, water and energy supplies. The threat to global stability vastly eclipses that of terrorism, say the few experts privy to its contents. Disruption and conflict will be endemic features of life,' concludes the Pentagon analysis. 'Once again, warfare would define human life. - Guardian, Now the Pentagon tells Bush: climate change will destroy us, Mark Townshend & Paul Harris, Sunday Feb, 22, 2004

    There is substantial evidence to indicate that significant global warming will occur during the 21st century. ...With inadequate preparation, the result could be a significant drop in the human carrying capacity of the Earth’s environment. - Report, Grist,

    Six Retired Admirals & Five Retired Generals

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Global warming poses a "serious threat to America's national security" and the U.S. likely will be dragged into fights over water and other shortages, top retired military leaders warn in a new report. The report says that in the next 30 to 40 years there will be wars over water, increased hunger instability from worsening disease and rising sea levels and global warming-induced refugees. "The chaos that results can be an incubator of civil strife, genocide and the growth of terrorism," the 35-page report predicts. -CNN, Report (PDF)

    Royal United Services Institute - British military think tank founded in 1831

    Just a slight rise in sea level would plunge roughly half of that country underwater, forcing perhaps 17 million people to seek refuge in neighboring India But India is constructing a 3,000-kilometer fence along its border with Bangladesh, and could hardly feed or shelter such a huge influx of people. . - Conference Focuses On Terror Potential Of Abrupt Climate Change

    Administrative Officials
    anchor

    Presidents from 319+ Universities and Colleges

    We, the undersigned presidents and chancellors of colleges and universities, are deeply concerned about the unprecedented scale and speed of global warming and its potential for large-scale, adverse health, social, economic and ecological effects. We recognize the scientific consensus that global warming is real and is largely being caused by humans. We further recognize the need to reduce the global emission of greenhouse gases by 80% by mid-century at the latest, in order to avert the worst impacts of global warming and to reestablish the more stable climatic conditions that have made human progress over the last 10,000 years possible.

    -American College & University Presidents Climate Commitment

    To see all the signatories please go here. I'm not typing out 319 different names.

    Politicians
    anchor

    Arnold Schwarzenegger

    "I say the [global warming] debate is over. We know the science," "We see the threat, and we know the time for action is now." - California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, United Nations summit.

    Tony Blair

    "the risks of climate change may well be greater than we thought." - Tony Blair 1,

    "[Climate change is] Probably long term the single most important issue that we face as a global community". -Tony Blair

    "Our effect on the environment, and in particular on climate change, is large and growing; he said." -Tony Blair

    President Clinton

    "The Earth is warming at an alarming rate, we are running out of fossil fuels, and it is long past time for us to take action to correct these problems," Clinton said. "This is also a tremendous opportunity and there are countless good new jobs to be created in the field of green energy." - Associated Press: Clinton conference raises $7B

    British Energy Minister Malcolm Wicks

    "The people in denial now are the equivalent of the Flat Earth Society,"-Get ready for freak weather, world's polluters told, Reuters, Catherine Bermer

    Seattle Mayor Gregory Nickels

    “The reality of global climate change is urgent. The stakes are high – locally and globally – and we need to act.” 1

    Bill White, Mayor of Houston

    Flannery allows the reader to understand and explain why humans ought to alter the atmosphere with humility. We and other species already have experienced climate change, and humans have tipped the 10,000-year balance between carbon dioxide emissions and absorption. Through a combination of personal responsibility and international law, we must slow the pace of change to give the global community a chance to reflect and plan.” —Bill White, Mayor of Houston

    John McCain

    "I'm concerned about climate change. I'm going to do something about it." -Meet Captain Climate


    Map of ~300 mayors that have signed the Climate Protection Agreement:

    Map of mayors
    Climate Protection Agreement Text
    List of majors who have signed



    Mainstream Media
    anchor
    The Economist

    The uncertainty surrounding climate change argues for action, not inaction. America should lead the way - The heat is on, Sep 7th 2006

    USA Today

    “not only is the science in, it is also overwhelming.”- Dan Vergano

    BBC

    ;‘An expert panel convened by BBC News has concluded that climate change is "real and dangerous". Temperatures are likely to rise by 3C to 5C by the end of the century, with impacts probably "severe" but perhaps not "catastrophic", the panel said.’ - BBC

    "Several said they have never known such a positive atmosphere. Nobody doubted the reality of climate science anymore." - Mixed outcomes at climate talks, BBC News, Roger Harrabin

    The Australian

    "THE debate on climate change is over. As far as the Howard Government is concerned, Australians must accept that humans contribute to global warming and adapt their behaviour to save the planet." -Matt Price

    Jared Diamond, author of Guns, Germs & Steel

    At last, here is a clear and readable account of one of the most important but controversial issues facing everyone in the world today. If you are not already addicted to Tim Flannery's writing, discover him now: The Weather Makers is his best book yet.” —Jared Diamond, author of Collapse and Guns, Germs & Steel 1

    Christian Science Monitor

    Honest and spirited writing that makes this book a compelling read, and one that could melt public ambivalence. Flannery . . . deftly brings the complex field of climate science and its components such as greenhouse gases and global warming within reach of the lay reader.” —Lori Valigra, Christian Science Monitor 1


    Religion
    anchor

    United States Conference of Catholic Bishops -(the official leadership body of the Roman Catholic Church in the United States)

    WASHINGTON (June 1, 2007)—In an unprecedented action, the Presidents of the Catholic Bishops’ Conferences of seven countries, including the United States, have written to the leaders of the Group of 8 Countries to urge bold action on global poverty, health care, climate change and peace and security, at next week’s G8 Summit in Germany. - Official Media Relations

    “The G8 Summit will explore many issues of critical importance to human life and dignity,” the bishops said. “We pray that your meeting will be blessed by a spirit of collaboration that enables the G8 leaders to advance the global common good by adopting concrete measures on global poverty, health care, climate change and peace and security.” - Official Media Relations

    Our national debate over solutions to global climate change needs to move beyond the uses and abuses of science, sixty-second ads, and exaggerated claims. Because this issue touches so many people, as well as the planet itself, all parties need to strive for a civil and constructive debate about U.S. decisions and leadership in this area. As people of religious faith, we bishops believe that the atmosphere that supports life on earth is a God-given gift, one we must respect and protect. It unites us as one human family. If we harm the atmosphere, we dishonor our Creator and the gift of creation. -Climate Statement

    National Association of Evangelicals

    "But support on the issue has broadened. God's call on his people is to care for his creation." - Jim Jewell, serving (52 denominations serving 30 million parishioners) Businessweek, The Race Againse Climate Change, 12, 12, 2005

    Evangelical Climate Initiative

    Human-Induced Climate Change is Real... The Consequences of Climate Change Will Be Significant, and Will Hit the Poor the Hardest ... Christian Moral Convictions Demand Our Response to the Climate Change Problem ... The need to act now is urgent. Governments, businesses, churches, and individuals all have a role to play in addressing climate change—starting now. -Climate Change An Evangelical Call to Action , Signatories
    There's no consensus on evoloution either...

    Common Arguments from Global Warming Skeptics - Logical Science
    skeptics debunked

    William M. Gray[/QUOTE]

    That would be what is called a consenus
    Last edited by Roosveltrepub; 01 May 08, at 13:17.
    Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
    ~Ronald Reagan

  11. #41
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    Can someone post some support for their view from something that isn't a conservative rag site or some dummy science study group sponsored by big oil or some lone scientist whose sucking on the tit of big oil? I gave hundreds. Can you give me one report by a western nations study group that agrees with your pov? Bush's study group didnt. I am supposed to believe the one or two dissenters over every other climate scientist???
    Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
    ~Ronald Reagan

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    Because they're a pile of ignorant f*cksticks.

    -dale
    Let's play nice.
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ba1025 View Post
    Can someone post some support for their view from something that isn't a conservative rag site or some dummy science study group sponsored by big oil or some lone scientist whose sucking on the tit of big oil? I gave hundreds. Can you give me one report by a western nations study group that agrees with your pov? Bush's study group didnt. I am supposed to believe the one or two dissenters over every other climate scientist???
    The hottest year on record is still 1998 according to the WMO, and 2008 is expected to be cooler than last year (NASA disagrees, having 2005 as the warmest year, but another agency, the UK's Hadley Centre is in concurrence with the WMO).

    BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Global temperatures 'to decrease'

    Can you direct me to a model that predicted this stabilization in global temperatures? A ten year time period of stabilized temperatures that isn't captured by models indicates that there causal mechanism explanation is flawed.
    Last edited by Shek; 01 May 08, at 15:11.
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

  14. #44
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    [QUOTE=Helium;491173]Okay

    Where do I start ), first I'm going to give my opinion - all in good humour and with the arrogance of youth (emphasis that it is arrogance not ignorance because when it comes to Climate change the oldies ARE NOT informed at all ) and then explain why I think so. Well youngin', welcome to the WAB. First you can click on the user name of each post and view a profile of that poster, it may contain thier age if they wish to share. I am almost 41. And I agree with you. When I was younger I was arrogant as well. After that arrogance nearly got me killed a time or two I started listening to the old farts. You will understand completely when you are older. It is inevitable.

    I believe that Climate change is real and that we are not in a weather cycle. Ice ages etc require a triggering event to occur; sometimes something as dramatic as an asteroid or smaller but relatively large in scale. The same goes for warming up cycles which really are known to occur after ice ages and i am not talking about heating up to return to normal temperatures before the iceage but to mean temperatures that are slightly higher than that period. We have seen no natural occurence on a large scale to cause the heating of the earth curently.I notice how the shift in terms from "global warming" to "global climate change" is occuring. Lefties do this so if it turns out thier wrong later, they can save a little face. (ie, John Kerry,"I voted for the 80 bil before I voted against it") Classic example! Now please read this and tell me what you think Little Ice Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    All this and more is taught at school now, atleast in Australia, and I am pretty sure it wasn't 30 or more years ago, so others are informed in newspapers and TV docos where a light graze over the info is given, a small number buy a book about climate change or take the time to research in depth Climate change. Although I would say most reading this thread would be more informed than normal. I'm 21 by the way Just FYI, this was taught in the schools as far back as the fifties(according to my mother) the thing is it kept flip flopping from global warming to global cooling. IMO, nobody really knows for sure.


    Do you agree that the waste smoke let off by energy producing factories; fossil fuels coal-the most widely used energy producing fuel eg Australia, China - is predominantly made up of carbon?

    Do you agree that there is more carbon in the air/atmosphere than there was 200yrs ago? If yes then you are halfway there

    Do you agree that there are less trees on earth then 200 yrs ago or at the least less tree density in now urbanized areas?

    Do you believe in photosynthesis; which involves the absorbtion of carbon WITH light to create oxygen

    Do you believe in the sunstances that reflect UV rays which exist in the atmosphere called Ozone and that CFC's can destroy this substance and create a hole in the atmosphere that lets in UV rays?

    All of the above questions concern information that is scientifically proven.
    yes to all the above. However, that is not all the factors.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shek View Post
    The hottest year on record is still 1998 according to the WMO, and 2008 is expected to be cooler than last year (NASA disagrees, having 2005 as the warmest year, but another agency, the UK's Hadley Centre is in concurrence with the WMO).

    BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Global temperatures 'to decrease'

    Can you direct me to a model that predicted this stabilization in global temperatures? A ten year time period of stabilized temperatures that isn't captured by models indicates that there causal mechanism explanation is flawed.
    [GLOBAL]Global temperatures for 2008 will be slightly cooler than last year as a result of the cold La Nina current in the Pacific, UN meteorologists have said.[/QUOTE] That's weather and the BBC is not a govt or a peer reviewed publication

    When you look at climate change you should not look at any particular year," he said. "You should look at trends over a pretty long period and the trend of temperature globally is still very much indicative of warming.
    That quote is from your source.
    Adam Scaife, lead scientist for Modelling Climate Variability at the Hadley Centre in Exeter, UK, said their best estimate for 2008 was about 0.4C above the 1961-1990 average, and higher than this if you compared it with further back in the 20th Century.
    Again from your source.
    Mr Scaife told the BBC: "What's happened now is that La Nina has come along and depressed temperatures slightly but these changes are very small compared to the long-term climate change signal, and in a few years time we are confident that the current record temperature of 1998 will be beaten when the La Nina has ended."
    Basically saying this is an argument agaisnt Global warming is like saying a few cold winters is an ice age.

    Image:Instrumental Temperature Record.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I believe this is the answer to your question. It has a number of peaks and troughs but a clear trend


    Image:1000 Year Temperature Comparison.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    thats a scary one huh?
    Image:2000 Year Temperature Comparison.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is a topic I would gladly argue all day long. it's like being armed with a bazooka in a knife fight
    Image:2000 Year Temperature Comparison.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    NCDC: Climate of 2008 - March I dont see here it's been real 'cold' lately and neither does our conservative govt. T

    Global Highlights

    The global surface (land and ocean surface) temperature was the 2nd warmest on record for March in the 129-year record, 1.28° F (0.71° C) above the 20th century mean of 54.9° F (12.7° C). The warmest March on record (+1.33° F/0.74° C) occurred in 2002.

    The global land surface temperature was the warmest on record for March, 3.3° F (1.8° C) above the 20th century mean of 40.8° F (5.0° C). Temperatures more than 8° F above average covered much of the Asian continent. Two months after the greatest January snow cover extent on record on the Eurasian continent, the unusually warm temperatures led to rapid snow melt, and March snow cover extent on the Eurasian continent was the lowest on record.

    Although the ocean surface average was only the 13th warmest on record, as the cooling influence of La Niña in the tropical Pacific continued, much warmer than average conditions across large parts of Eurasia helped push the global average to a near record high for March.

    Northern Hemisphere snow cover extent was the fourth lowest on record for March, remaining consistent with boreal spring conditions of the past two decades, in which warming temperatures have contributed to anomalously low snow cover extent.

    Some weakening of La Niña, the cold phase of the El Niño-Southern Oscillation, occurred in March, but moderate La Niña conditions remained across the tropical Pacific Ocean.

    ScienceDaily (Apr. 19, 2008) — The average global land temperature last month was the warmest on record and ocean surface temperatures were the 13th warmest. Combining the land and the ocean temperatures, the overall global temperature ranked the second warmest for the month of March. Global temperature averages have been recorded since 1880.
    ....El Nina is winding down

    Are you really saying we are not experiencing global warming Shek or are you just saying you can make a counter argument? Leaving cause out of the picture
    Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
    ~Ronald Reagan

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  5. Fact about Taj Mahal and the global influence of Vedic culture.
    By mega-drive in forum International Politics
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 28 Aug 06,, 06:14

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