View Poll Results: Do you think AGW is real? Please check the proper one for nationality.

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  • AGW is real-American member

    17 17.53%
  • AGW is real-Non-American member

    24 24.74%
  • AGW is not real-American member

    38 39.18%
  • AGW is not real-Non American member

    18 18.56%
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Thread: Global Warming...Fact or Fiction?

  1. #2146
    Colonist Senior Contributor
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    Heh, the old man took the Farmall for scrap 2 years ago. I wanted to get her going again to use as a boat trailer.

    Was a bloody shame. Incidently, talking about towing - I loaded it on the Tandem, and it was one of the most cautious drives I have ever done.
    Ego Numquam

  2. #2147
    Ex-Wabber Defense Professional
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    Heh, the old man took the Farmall for scrap 2 years ago...
    Oh man, that is a shame.

    You wouldn't think a guy from Alaska would want an old garden tractor, but my grandpa had one of these Model A's and as a kid I used to drive it all over his property. When he died it got sold, and I've wanted to get one for years.

    Just a sentimental thing, but I love the simplicity of these old things- to me they are almost an art form.

    I can pick up the one in the pic for 2 grand, which is nothing. It's not very far from me, so it's not like I'd have to truck it from the midwest. All I got to do is figure out where I can store it. Need to find someone that will rent me a shed on a farm cheap for a few years.
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

  3. #2148
    Colonist Senior Contributor
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    If your a member of a boat club, maybe consider asking them if they'd care to store it. They have a need for hauling a boat up every once in awhile. They are extremely hard to treat badly - least of all if you give it to one of those wooden boat guys and it'd get a run. If I end up down at the beach in my retirement the old TEA-20 (grandfathers farmall replacement) will go down there earning a dollar towing 4WD's out of the sand. We are actually working for a guy who does nothing but buys and sells old tractors ATM (has made lot of $$$) They only appreciate in value.
    Ego Numquam

  4. #2149
    Ex-Wabber Defense Professional
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    Well I don't want it at my marina. They'll use it alright, backing it down the boat ramp and submerging the wheels half in the water...

    I talked to the old man that does the restoring. He's out of town right now, but I'm gonna go down and see him and try to work something out. He might let me leave it in his barn for a couple years and just pay him $25 a month or so.

    Just what I need, lol.
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

  5. #2150
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    Nobel laureate resigns from American Physical Society to protest the organization’s stance on global warming | Watts Up With That?


    Nobel prize winner for physics in 1973 Dr. Ivar Giaever resigned as a Fellow from the American Physical Society (APS) on September 13, 2011 in disgust over the group’s promotion of man-made global warming fears. Climate Depot has obtained the exclusive email Giaever sent to APS Executive Officer Kate Kirby to announce his formal resignation.

    Dr. Giaever wrote to Kirby of APS: “Thank you for your letter inquiring about my membership. I did not renew it because I cannot live with the (APS) statement below (on global warming): APS: ‘The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring. If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now.’

    Giaever announced his resignation from APS was due to the group’s belief in man-made global warming fears. Giaever explained in his email to APS: “In the APS it is ok to discuss whether the mass of the proton changes over time and how a multi-universe behaves, but the evidence of global warming is incontrovertible? The claim (how can you measure the average temperature of the whole earth for a whole year?) is that the temperature has changed from ~288.0 to ~288.8 degree Kelvin in about 150 years, which (if true) means to me is that the temperature has been amazingly stable, and both human health and happiness have definitely improved in this ‘warming’ period.”

    Read the full story here at Climate Depot

    Here’s the resignation letter:
    From: Ivar Giaever [ mailto:giaever@XXXX.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 3:42 PM
    To: kirby@xxx.xxx
    Cc: Robert H. Austin; ‘William Happer’; ‘Larry Gould’; ‘S. Fred Singer’; Roger Cohen
    Subject: I resign from APS
    Dear Ms. Kirby
    Thank you for your letter inquiring about my membership. I did not renew it because I can not live with the statement below:
    Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth’s climate. Greenhouse gases include carbon dioxide as well as methane, nitrous oxide and other gases. They are emitted from fossil fuel combustion and a range of industrial and agricultural processes.
    The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring.
    If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth’s physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now.
    In the APS it is ok to discuss whether the mass of the proton changes over time and how a multi-universe behaves, but the evidence of global warming is incontrovertible? The claim (how can you measure the average temperature of the whole earth for a whole year?) is that the temperature has changed from ~288.0 to ~288.8 degree Kelvin in about 150 years, which (if true) means to me is that the temperature has been amazingly stable, and both human health and happiness have definitely improved in this ‘warming’ period.

    Best regards,
    Ivar Giaever
    Nobel Laureate 1973

    PS. I included a copy to a few people in case they feel like using the information.
    Ivar Giaever
    XXX XXX
    XXX
    USA
    Phone XXX XXX XXX
    Fax XXX XXX XXX
    ...and the list keeps on growing

  6. #2151
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    On the other hand, a Nobel Prize ain't what it used to be. Look at some of the recipients: Al Gore, Barack Obama, Jimmy Carter, Yasser Arafat, Paul Krugman...

    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  7. #2152
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Arctic Ice Hits Near-Record Low, Threatening Wildlife
    by Richard Harris

    September 16, 2011

    Ice on the Arctic Ocean has melted to its second-lowest level on record, according to researchers in Colorado who track this trend. The summertime melt coincides with a dramatic warming over the past decade, and it's already affecting wildlife in the Arctic Ocean.

    The Arctic ice comes and goes with the seasons; typically about half of the wintertime ice melts away by mid-September. After that low point, the ice regrows. In 2007, the amount of ice left in September hit a dramatic low.

    Mark Serreze, who heads the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Colorado, says this year's low is not far off that 2007 record.

    "What it's telling us is that the long-term decline in Arctic sea ice is continuing, and even appears to be accelerating at this point," he says.

    Serreze says what's notable about this year is how different the weather was, compared with the record-low year in 2007.

    "In 2007, one of the big reasons we got to a record low is because we essentially had a near-perfect weather pattern that pumped a lot of warm air into the Arctic," Serreze says.

    Unusually cloud-free skies hastened the melting, and wind patterns made the ice prone to disappear. Serreze says this year's melt was nearly as bad, but without the extreme weather.

    "That's telling us that sea ice is really in trouble," he says. "The ice is so thin now that it just can't take a hit in summer anymore."

    That's setting up a vicious cycle. There's no question that the Arctic Ocean will freeze up again over the fall and winter, but there's less and less really thick ice building back up year to year.

    "Come next spring, we're just going to have a lot of thin ice that formed over the autumn and winter. That's the stuff that melts out easily the next summer," Serreze says. "So there's a feedback at work here, and that feedback is getting stronger with time."

    Serreze says the Arctic could be ice-free in the summer by about 2030, though that is hard to predict; other scientists say it could be mid-century before that dramatic point is reached.

    Why does this matter? Ice that's floating on the sea surface doesn't raise the sea level when it melts. But researchers suspect it will alter the weather that reaches us far to the south. It's already affecting Arctic wildlife.

    Thousands of walruses that usually float around on sea ice and dive down to feed on the ocean floor abandoned those floes when the only ice left off the coast of Alaska was over water that was too deep.

    "After the sea ice ran out, a lot of the walruses came to the shore of northwest Alaska and began hauling out there," says Chad Jay, a research ecologist with the U.S. Geological Survey in Alaska. He says it's harder on the walruses to feed from shore, because they have to swim farther to get back to their food supply. It's also more hazardous for them to be up on the rocks instead of on ice, he says.

    "When they're hauled out in these large aggregations on the shore, if there's a disturbance or something that causes walruses to flee into the water quickly, then quickly the calves get run over and die as a result," Jay says.

    He's now trying to figure out how the walruses will adapt as the sea ice continues to melt away.
    Arctic Ice Hits Near-Record Low, Threatening Wildlife : NPR

    I'm confused. Sea ice is dropping due to global warming. Sea level dropped, due to rainfall pattern change, as a result of global warming.

    What is not due to global warming?
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  8. #2153
    Military Professional BadKharma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    What is not due to global warming?
    Nothing of course

  9. #2154
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Arctic Ice Hits Near-Record Low, Threatening Wildlife : NPR

    I'm confused. Sea ice is dropping due to global warming. Sea level dropped, due to rainfall pattern change, as a result of global warming.

    What is not due to global warming?
    Try as I might, I cannot seem to find the NPR article about Antarctic sea extent recently hitting the highest point in the entire record. Actually I can't find any news articles about it. In fact any searches for it just get me stories about the Arctic instead. Wonder why that is...

  10. #2155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wooglin View Post
    In fact any searches for it just get me stories about the Arctic instead. Wonder why that is...
    Lol. Could it be because the antarctic ice is growing? They make a big production about the western shelf melting, but what they don't talk about is the eastern ice is growing faster than what's being lost on the warm side.

    Did you catch this one?

    BBC News - Times Atlas 'wrong' on Greenland ice
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

  11. #2156
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    Sorry guys (and girls) I have been off line for a while and have finally had a chance to check in. Seems I missed a fair bit (like Special Relativily being consigned to the bust bin of history - just kidding! I will post in that thread when I get the chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral View Post
    Would that be "can't"?
    AG - Yep I meant to say economic developement is something the West can't impose on less developed parts of the world - me bad.

    Wooglin - I will get back to you re: further "pro" AGW papers etc when I get a chance in the near future (renovations are comming to an end soon and I get my life/weekends back). BTW - has anyone else had a chance to check out the "Skeptical Science" website yet, Opinions Anyone?

    Hope everyone is well. Will chat later....cheers

  12. #2157
    Dirty Kiwi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    BTW - has anyone else had a chance to check out the "Skeptical Science" website yet, Opinions Anyone?
    Skeptical Science? John Cook – embarrassing himself | Watts Up With That?
    Socialism is simply the Collective denial of responsibility.

  13. #2158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    Sorry guys (and girls) I have been off line for a while and have finally had a chance to check in. Seems I missed a fair bit (like Special Relativily being consigned to the bust bin of history - just kidding! I will post in that thread when I get the chance.



    AG - Yep I meant to say economic developement is something the West can't impose on less developed parts of the world - me bad.

    Wooglin - I will get back to you re: further "pro" AGW papers etc when I get a chance in the near future (renovations are comming to an end soon and I get my life/weekends back). BTW - has anyone else had a chance to check out the "Skeptical Science" website yet, Opinions Anyone?

    Hope everyone is well. Will chat later....cheers
    Yes, I'm familiar with the site.

    If you're familiar with any of the arguments I've made on here you will eventually find yourself coming to this post on that site...

    There's no tropospheric hot spot

    So check it out. When you're ready, we'll discuss it and I'll explain what the skeptical argument actually is and why this post is wrong either way. Then you can form your own opinion about the site.

  14. #2159
    BD1
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    i hope this has not been posted here, but according to climatologists lots of Global Warming problems would be solved if americans would simply switch from Fahrenheit to Celsius...
    If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today

    Minding your own biz is great virtue, but situation awareness saves lives - Dok

  15. #2160
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BD1 View Post
    i hope this has not been posted here, but according to climatologists lots of Global Warming problems would be solved if americans would simply switch from Fahrenheit to Celsius...
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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