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Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by gunnut
In my own opinion, its the CO2 from industries that greatly contributes to the build-up in the atmosphere.
Despite over a third of our land mass being covered in sustainably managed forests, having virtually no industry except primary food production and a human population of only 4 million, NZ is a heavy greenhouse gas producer and must apparently soon start paying many millions of dollars to somebody or other. The reason?
Cows and sheep fart.
I think he's serious.
In my own opinion, its the CO2 from industries that greatly contributes to the build-up in the atmosphere.
KEVIN Trenberth is head of the large US National Centre for Atmospheric Research and one of the advisory high priests of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)."None of the models used by IPCC is initialised to the observed state and none of the climate states in the models corresponds even remotely to the current observed climate.
"The state of the oceans, sea ice and soil moisture has no relationship to the observed state at any recent time in any of the IPCC models.
"There is neither an El Nino sequence nor any Pacific Decadal Oscillation that replicates the recent past; yet these are critical modes of variability that affect Pacific rim countries and beyond . . . the starting climate state in several of the models may depart significantly from the real climate owing to model errors" and "regional climate change is impossible to deal with properly unless the models are initialised".
GCMs "assume linearity" which "works for global forced variations, but it cannot work for many aspects of climate, especially those related to the water cycle . . . the science is not done because we do not have reliable or regional predictions of climate".
Source
Luckily, your opinion is meaningless.
-dale
Facts can be a little inconvenient to an opinion...The earth produces far more CO2 than man and it doesn't stop for holidays and week ends... It even produces more when the sun heats up its surface...And remember the reverend 'BIG AL' (emphasis on BIG) loves your opinion. Al eats big and farts big...Hense he needs a catalytic converter.
IVAN
Al has this "Live Earth" concert planned all over the world on July 7th. It is to call attention to the environmental catastrophe we have caused in the last "fill in the blank" years.
How much energy does it take to put on all these concerts? You know, moving things around, setting up the stage, powering all the lights, amps, and other utilities. Not to mention all those people getting to the concerts.
Has anyone even bothered to calculate the "carbon footprint" of these concerts?
How can we cut down our "carbon footprint" if we have all these things to do, places to go, people to see?
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
It's like an environmentalist going in his or her federally supplied SUV 3000 miles to do a environmental impact report.
On the way they run over 10 kit foxes, smack 15 snail darters, collide with 6 spotted owls, squash 10 million endangered insects, while using 300 gallons of gas, oops I mean bio-diesel, and when they reach the site they flatten 38 rare species of flora and the fauna that lives in the brush, then steps out of the Tahoe and directly squishes a red legged tree frog with their new leather Birkenstock's (they would have been wearing their Doc Martin's but the soles were not recycled tire treads like the Berkelystocks).
They stop to eat some coo's coo's and tofu casserole and wash it down with some Sobe green tea, onion and ginseng.
Then find they swatted the last of the rainbow cape gnats against their forehead that they were there to study so they could close down the construction of the purposed, "Children's Cancer Hospital". In his/her anger the empty Sobe bottle is thrown and hits and fatally cold cocks a snowy plover who was minding his own business.
Sad and depressed the environmentalist rips out of the site wildly spinning brodies to and fro dashing the riparian area and its many species. Getting back on the road they hit 3 California condors that were munching on the remains of the aforementioned spotted owl they had collided with.
Another 20 gallons of bio-diesel latter they ditch the Tahoe at LAX and in their great sorrow hop a flight back to their home in Vermont so they can relax in their redwood hot tub and watch a show they set their Tevo to record, 'fireside chats with Reverend Al on the dangers of cow flatulence.
On boarding the plane they settle back in their seat to call their therapist about the gnat incident with their BlueBerry where 30 minutes into the conversation the signal from the BlueBerry throws the planes navigation system into a tizzy. The pilot gets on the intercom as the plane is spinning out of control and says, It's been 30 mins. out and the tail Rutter broke, so hey there it's been good to know Ya.
You guessed it. The 737 was barrow rolling down toward the girl scout camp in the middle of the 'Old Growth Sequoia Gigantia Forest'. Luckily no girl scouts were there on this day because the camp was being enlarged with the addition of a proposed chocolate mint cookie factory and marketing center.
Just so happens there was a large group of enviromentalist moving to the site to get the whole operation shut down shut down. Needless to say it wasn't a pretty site. The age old redwoods burnt for twenty days before moving up the hill and toasting the oldest bristle cone pine in the Sierras.
Sierra club members had to fire up their private helicopters to leave a remote area that they had stopped to have a Bree and wine break before hitting the slots in Parumph, Nevada.
Needless to say there was a mountain of paperwork that needed to be filled out and a couple hundred investigators needed to fly to CA. to make heads or tails of the events that had transpired.
The moral of this story is lightly brush Rainbow Cape Gnats from your forehead don't swat them before shutting down a children's cancer hospital. The life you save can be your own.
Last edited by brokensickle; 02 Jul 07, at 19:51.
That was a riot.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
I knew it! Climate change is real!
Greenland changed from forested land to glacier over the last 1000 years.
ScienceDaily: Fossil DNA Proves Greenland Once Had Lush Forests; Ice Sheet Is Surprisingly Stable
Amazing!!!Fossil DNA Proves Greenland Once Had Lush Forests; Ice Sheet Is Surprisingly Stable
Science Daily — Ancient Greenland was green. New Danish research has shown that it was covered in conifer forest and, like southern Sweden today, had a relatively mild climate. Eske Willerslev, a professor at Copenhagen University, has analysed the world's oldest DNA, preserved under the kilometre-thick icecap. The DNA is likely close to half a million years old, and the research is painting a picture which is overturning all previous assumptions about biological life and the climate in Greenland.
Ten percent of the Earth's surface has been covered with ice for thousands of years. No one knows what lies beneath the kilometre-deep icecaps. These are the earth's unknown and unexplored regions. But some have begun the exploration. Several projects under Danish leadership have been drilling through the icecap on Greenland, and collected complete columns of ice all the way from the top to the bottom. The ice has annual layers and is a frozen archive of the world's climate.
"I wonder, if there could also be DNA down there", thought Eske Willerslev, who is the world's leading expert in extracting DNA from organisms buried in permafrost. His thinking was that perhaps he could reconstruct the environment of the past.
Ice-core samples of ancient sediment
The icecap itself is comprised of pure ice, but the lower sections are mixed with mud from the bottom, and it was this mud that Eske Willerslev wanted to research. He got base layer samples from three drillings; DYE-3 drilling in the southern part of Greenland, the GRIP drilling in the middle of the Greenlandic ice sheet, and for the third core base layer sample he used the John Evans glacier in Canada.
The Canadian glacier is only a few thousand years old, and samples from it were used to test the method. From the base layer samples of the ice he found DNA from three of the four most common plants which grow in the area. "That means that, what one finds under the ice, represents the local environment" explains Eske Willerslev.
In the base layer sample from the GRIP drilling, from the middle of the Greenlandic ice sheet, there were no DNA remains at all- not from plants, mammals or insects. "The explanation," he says, "is that the ice in the middle of the ice sheet is very thick- over three kilometres, and the greater pressure produces a higher temperature at the base, and so the DNA material, which cannot tolerate warmth, disintegrates".
Ancient Flora and Fauna
At the DYE-3 drilling-site, the ice is 'only' two kilometres thick, and here the DNA-material was so well preserved that Eske Willerslev could extract genetic traces of a long list of plants and insects and thereby reconstruct ancient plant and animal life.
"This genetic material presents a biological environment, which is completely different to what we see today." he says. "We have found grain, pine, yew and alder. These correspond to the landscapes we find in Eastern Canada and in the Swedish forests today. The trees provide a backdrop from which we can also ascertain the climate since each species has its own temperature requirements. The yew trees reveal that the temperature during the winter could not have been lower than minus 17 degrees Celsius, and the presence of other trees shows that summer temperatures were at least 10 degrees".
Climate theories over-turned
The research results are the first direct proof that there was forest in southern Greenland. Furthermore Willerslev found genetic traces of insects such as butterflies, moths, flies and beetles. But when was that? According to most scientific theories to date, all of southern Greenland and most of the northern part were ice-free during the last interglacial period 125,000 years ago, when the climate was 5 degrees warmer than the interglacial period we currently live in.
This theory however, was not confirmed by Willerslev and co-workers subsequent datings. He analysed the insects' mitochondria, which are special genomes that change with time and like a clock can be used to date the DNA. He also analysed their amino acids which also change over time. Both datings showed that the insects were at least 450,000 years old.
The ice-core researchers are experts at analysing the fine dust which blows onto the ice and is preserved year by year. They advocate two further datings. One is dating by optically stimulated luminescence. It is a method where the examined minerals can be affected to give off a type of light, which depends on how long it has been since the minerals were last exposed to sunlight.
The other method is radioactive dating. "We can fix when the ice was last in contact with the atmosphere," says Jørgen Peder Steffensen who is a researcher in the Ice and Climate group at the Niles Bohr Institute at Copenhagen University. He explains that the special isotopes, Beryllium-10 and Chlorine-36 both have a particular half-life of radioactive decay (just like Carbon-14). The relation between them can date when the ice and dust were buried and no longer came in contact with the atmosphere.
The dating of dust particles also showed that it has been at least 450,000 years ago since the area of the DYE-3 drilling, in the southern part of Greenland, was ice-free.
That signifies that there was ice there during the Eemian interglacial period 125,000 years ago. It means that although we are now confronted with global warming, the whole ice sheet will not melt and bring about the tremendous sea-level rises which have been the subject of so much discussion.
The results have just been published in the journal Science.
Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by University of Copenhagen.
There was a time in the not so distant past in earth's history where the climate was warmer than even now.
I wonder what was the CO2 content in the atmosphere back then.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
I get righter and righter every day.
-dale
Dale, don't forget over millions and millions of years the earth was covered in Forests,uncultivated and not looked after by Man..So.. when a fire started it didn't last a couple of days or weeks it lasted years. As the Continents where joined at the time, and fires raging on all sides of Pangia the Earth warmed up naturally. As we now "control" these massive global fires, We have started are own "Fires" methane, carbon monoxide/dioxide, acid rain et al. As long as Greed exist..Man will not SurviveI get righter and righter every day.
-dale
The hope is that the correction in behavior that results from the concerts will outweigh the carbon cost of the concert. I believe this concert is a worthy expenditure of resources.
I don't believe it is effective to accuse Al Gore of hypocrisy because his concert causes some emission of carbon dioxide. Most worthy deeds and causes need an initial expenditure of some resources in order to be effective. The expenditure of these resources may appear to be contrary to the goals of the project.
For example, when China built the Three Gorges Dam it destroyed valuable habitats and evicted more than 1 million Chinese from their dwellings. These actions appeared to be contrary to the Chinese Communist Party's goal of preserving Chinese livelihood with the dam. However, when the dam becomes fully operational in 2009, it will supply at least 3% of China's electrical needs. This prevents the use of coal for that 3% of energy, thus saving the globe some carbon emissions. Furthermore, the dam provides flood control for the Yangtze River.
Although the full impact of the dam, for better or for worse, will not be fully known for some decades, it appears its benefits will eclipse its painful cost.
In short, you have to spend money to make money.
In addition, it is disingenuous to fault Al Gore's concerts for carbon emissions when there are other activities that deserve our scorn. For example, the profligate use of plastics, wasteful driving, and government deregulation of the energy industry. I think Al Gore's concerts are the least of our concern.
No it's not.
He's a hypocrite because he's calling us to conserve while he uses $30k of energy in ONE of his 4 mansions. To get us to go along, he cooks up this global warming hoax to scare people.
Earth does what earth wants. We have no say in it.
I will conserve for conservation's sake, namely it makes economical sense. I will not conserve because some airhead celebrities believe the earth is coming to an end.
Read through all the threads in the forum about global warming. There's more than enough evidence to counter the "the debate is over" claim.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
You're joking, right?Dale, don't forget over millions and millions of years the earth was covered in Forests,uncultivated and not looked after by Man..So.. when a fire started it didn't last a couple of days or weeks it lasted years. As the Continents where joined at the time, and fires raging on all sides of Pangia the Earth warmed up naturally. As we now "control" these massive global fires, We have started are own "Fires" methane, carbon monoxide/dioxide, acid rain et al. As long as Greed exist..Man will not Survive
I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.
Are you serious? Pangea wasn't together over all paleozoic or mesozoic time, just a piece of that time.Dale, don't forget over millions and millions of years the earth was covered in Forests,uncultivated and not looked after by Man..So.. when a fire started it didn't last a couple of days or weeks it lasted years. As the Continents where joined at the time, and fires raging on all sides of Pangia the Earth warmed up naturally. As we now "control" these massive global fires, We have started are own "Fires" methane, carbon monoxide/dioxide, acid rain et al. As long as Greed exist..Man will not Survive
As to the other point you are making, it's a dramatic view of something the numbers have always told us - given that we are still in a glacial epoch (although currently in an interglacial), the planet has usually been much warmer, on average, than it has been for the last several million years.
-dale
Last edited by dalem; 07 Jul 07, at 19:39.
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