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Thread: Climate Change is real!!!!!!!!!

  1. #151
    Regular taygone's Avatar
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    All I know is this one sheet of TP and maybe two for those PESKY trips isn't working. I'm from Texas and I like bbq and mexican food. Can I get some TP offsets?

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    No it's not.

    He's a hypocrite because he's calling us to conserve while he uses $30k of energy in ONE of his 4 mansions. To get us to go along, he cooks up this global warming hoax to scare people.
    You cite legitimate grounds for accusing Al Gore of a hypocritical lifestyle, which may or may not be true. However, I said it was disingenuous to accuse him of hypocrisy based on the waste caused by the Live Earth concerts. You have not refuted my point about that.

    You impute Al Gore with a scare motivation. What, in your opinion, does Al Gore have to gain by pressing the issue of global warming? Why would he scare people?

    Why do you think global warming is a hoax?

    Earth does what earth wants. We have no say in it.
    That is not a view endorsed by most scientists or by common sense. Earth is subject to human influence. It appears that our influence of late has been profound.

    I will conserve for conservation's sake, namely it makes economical sense. I will not conserve because some airhead celebrities believe the earth is coming to an end.
    I am glad that you find it reasonable to conserve, even if only in economic terms.

    Few, if any, climatologists claim that the Earth will come to end. Instead, the idea is that human influence will make the continuation of human civilization more difficult. Global warming will probably lead to erratic climate, which will wreak havoc on crops and water supplies. Furthermore, the rise in sea level will result in the displacement of millions of humans.

    Read through all the threads in the forum about global warming. There's more than enough evidence to counter the "the debate is over" claim.
    I don't have time to do that. I have followed a good amount of the debate. Usually it consists of conservatives on this board mistakenly claiming that global warming is hoax or a liberal conspiracy. The debate is usually cyclical, as the appearance of yet another global warming thread proves.

  3. #153
    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulgaroctonus View Post
    You impute Al Gore with a scare motivation. What, in your opinion, does Al Gore have to gain by pressing the issue of global warming? Why would he scare people?
    Sorry, jumping in here...

    Al Gore himself has justified his use of hyperbole and scare tactics to motivate his disciples:

    "
    Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis."
    From here.

    Why do you think global warming is a hoax?
    Because it hasn't passed any scientific tests.

    That is not a view endorsed by most scientists or by common sense. Earth is subject to human influence. It appears that our influence of late has been profound.
    Scientific consensus is a shelter for the foolish - it is neither scientifically rigorous or intellectually honest. And your comment about "common sense" is nonsense. To what "influence", especially "of late" are you specifically referring?

    I am glad that you find it reasonable to conserve, even if only in economic terms.

    Few, if any, climatologists claim that the Earth will come to end. Instead, the idea is that human influence will make the continuation of human civilization more difficult. Global warming will probably lead to erratic climate, which will wreak havoc on crops and water supplies. Furthermore, the rise in sea level will result in the displacement of millions of humans.
    Yeah yeah, we've heard the preaching. Now prove it. Prove any of it.

    I don't have time to do that. I have followed a good amount of the debate. Usually it consists of conservatives on this board mistakenly claiming that global warming is hoax or a liberal conspiracy. The debate is usually cyclical, as the appearance of yet another global warming thread proves.
    Bullsh*t. You claim that human industry is affecting the global climate. Now prove it. Don't whine and claim you're enlightened, just simply prove it.

    Prove.

    It.

    -dale

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    Bulgy, if you believe that Al Gore believes what he says, then the Earth is seconds away from melting into a gooey slushpile - anything short of him sitting cross-legged in front of a grass hut breathing shallowly into a bowl of water lillies is rank hypocrisy.

    Of course he is wrong though, and being proven more wrong every day. Hard to convince someone that their religion is wrong though.

    -dale
    You are incorrect in your assessment of Al Gore's hypocrisy because you imply a false dilemma: that prevention of global warming demands cessation of modern society and the forfeiture of all material comforts. This is neither the position of Al Gore nor the position of conservationists. As the below excerpt form the Guardian shows, Gore has been reluctant to divorce Americans from their lifestyles:

    There are indeed plenty of signals pointing in the opposite direction, towards a run. Gore is fond of quoting Churchill and his warnings of "the gathering storm" of fascism. And everyone knows that Churchill came out of the political wilderness to lead the battle against the storm. It's telling too that when it comes to the hard choices people will have to make to curb carbon emissions, Gore is reluctant to be specific, preferring to suggest that we in the west can both lead comfortable, luxurious lives and be good to the environment. Under pressure, he admits there will have to be hard choices, but even then he sounds more like a politician wary of alienating voters than an activist telling the unvarnished truth.
    Interview: Al Gore on his mission to save the planet | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

    The recommendations in An Inconvenient Truth were reasonable things like having properly inflated tires and insulated houses. These are hardly the rantings of some anarcho-primitivist.

    Furthermore, Al Gore does take steps to reduce his load on the environment. It is true that he is not a saint. However, he is doing more than you or I to lessen global warming. This comes from the same Guardian article:

    Surely he could make a start by flying less? "Beginning two years ago, I made a decision to live a carbon-neutral life," he says, explaining that his family and businesses now do all they can to reduce their emissions and to "offset" the rest by giving money to carbon-reduction schemes in India and eastern Europe. He also says he has talked to Richard Branson at Virgin and British Airways about the problem with aviation fuel, one of the single biggest sources of carbon dioxide. "They're aware of it," he says. Mere awareness is hardly enough, is it? "There will have to be a day of reckoning that takes this into account," he concedes.
    From a CNN Larry King Live interview with Al Gore (Aired June 13, 2006):
    GORE: I drive a hybrid. Tipper and I got a Lexus hybrid. And we have a couple of Priuses in the family with our children. And I encourage people to make environmentally conscious choices because we all have to solve this climate crisis.
    CNN.com - Transcripts

    I saw your most recent post about global warming not passing any tests. How many documents do you want me to get to support global warming? Ten, a hundred, a thousand? I can easily do that to counter your mistaken claim. Let's settle for ten to start off. By Sunday, I will find ten good articles on global warming. You can find ten articles, preferably not from the American Petroleum Institute, that claim that global warming is not happening or is not due to human activity.

    I know that you and many other conservatives view global warming as a hoax spawned by the amorphous 'left'. I ask you to put aside that for our debate, as hard as it may be. I don't mean this condescendingly. I think it is essential to stop viewing Al Gore and all the IPCC as adversarial.

    I believe the climate crisis is not a political, but a moral issue.

  5. #155
    Regular taygone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulgaroctonus View Post
    I believe the climate crisis is not a political, but a moral issue.
    I apologize to jump in as well. I am about to envoke two names that Robert Kennedy Jr. did with such disgust: Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh. I heard on one of Glen Beck's shows a few months ago that the President of Yugoslavia (I think) disputed the IPCC as it had a political biased agenda. Also, on the Rush Limbaugh show the question of morality hits it right on the head with the matter of carbon offsets. I don't mind trying to clean things up, but what in the world is a carbon offset? How can you say if I buy something I can keep driving my SUV and do all the stuff that's bad for the enviornment? That sounds like double talk. You guys over here stop everything you're doing. You guys on my side do what those guys were doing, but buy these offsets and I absolve you from your sins. One other thing, I've even heard from people who believe in Global Warming admit to I believe 90% of the "green house gasses" were caused from water vapor... How do we stop water from evaporating?

  6. #156
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Bulgaroctonus, if global warming were real, why is it called "climate change" now?

    Because even the global warming cult knows the facts don't support their religion. They changed the name of the religion to cover all contengencies. Warming. Cooling. Mild rain after onshore breeze. More hurricanes. Fewer hurricanes. Ocean rising. Ocean falling.

    If most scientists believe global warming were real, they would have stuck to the global warming label. Why change it? You have the facts to back you up.

    Most scientists believe evolution is real. It's been widely accepted over the last 150 years or so. The name hasn't changed, has it? Why don't we call it "gradual appearance" or something vague like that? Just to cover the contengency of god creating animals and placing them on this earth.

    We don't need sophisticated test models or theories or experiments or observations or anything like that to question global warming. We just need to question the reason behind the name change. A good theory, or fact, doesn't get a name change within 5 years of it's introduction.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  7. #157
    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulgaroctonus View Post
    I saw your most recent post about global warming not passing any tests. How many documents do you want me to get to support global warming? Ten, a hundred, a thousand? I can easily do that to counter your mistaken claim. Let's settle for ten to start off. By Sunday, I will find ten good articles on global warming. You can find ten articles, preferably not from the American Petroleum Institute, that claim that global warming is not happening or is not due to human activity.

    I know that you and many other conservatives view global warming as a hoax spawned by the amorphous 'left'. I ask you to put aside that for our debate, as hard as it may be. I don't mean this condescendingly. I think it is essential to stop viewing Al Gore and all the IPCC as adversarial.

    I believe the climate crisis is not a political, but a moral issue.
    Bulgy, I have been following the "global warming" myth since the mid-80s. I don't care how many crackpot interpretations of well-intended science you care to trot out, and I dismiss any populist bandwagonning of same. If you believe human industry has affected global climate, you must show some proof.

    And there is none.

    Now, it MAY be true, to some degree, small or large. So far, it has not one iota of real science backing it, and there is a large body of data that contradicts it.

    As far as Gore, who cares? He is a man looking for a mission and he has found it. Great. He can preach and prosleytize to his heart's content. But don't believe for a second that any of it has been proven, and that none of it has been easily refuted.

    As far as claims, YOU are the one with a claim - you claim that human industry affects global climate.

    Prove it.

    -dale

  8. #158
    Dirty Kiwi Parihaka's Avatar
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    Here's a couple for you to read as a starter Bulgar

    1

    2

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    Here's a couple for you to read as a starter Bulgar

    1

    2
    The original source for (1) is even better:

    Climate Feedback: Predictions of climate

    also from nature.com re: climate models
    Quantifying climate change [mdash] too rosy a picture? : article : Nature Reports Climate Change

  10. #160
    New Member Reo690's Avatar
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    I would like to post a report debunking Global Warming made by a person named Souldrinker on another forum. I take no credit for this report.
    "I am not gay ... but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night."
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  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reo690 View Post
    I would like to post a report debunking Global Warming made by a person named Souldrinker on another forum. I take no credit for this report.
    The link didn't open for me. Why not Introduce yourself and complete a public profile? It won't take long and then the WAB membership can see who you are.
    Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

  12. #162
    New Member Reo690's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glyn View Post
    The link didn't open for me. Why not Introduce yourself and complete a public profile? It won't take long and then the WAB membership can see who you are.
    Oh, well I guess I'll have to copy it and post it here.

    EDIT: The file is too long!

    EDIT: I had to host it on a freewebs account, which is http://www.freewebs.com/reo690/proof.htm here.
    Last edited by Reo690; 15 Jul 07, at 22:35.
    "I am not gay ... but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night."
    -- Senator Larry Craig, Boise, Idaho

  13. #163
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    I just noticed something. There is no opposing view to "global warming" or "climate change" on any of the Discovery Channel type programs.

    Every single program that remotely deals with the earth invariably ends with how man is destroying this earth.

    Ultimate ego stroke for man. We can destroy a planet!!! How ridiculous is that? The power of man is insignificant next to the power of nature.

    Jeebus, I had to change the channel because I just couldn't take the puke spewed out by that show (Universe on History Channel).
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  14. #164
    WAB BOUNCER Senior Contributor Stan187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    I just noticed something. There is no opposing view to "global warming" or "climate change" on any of the Discovery Channel type programs.

    Every single program that remotely deals with the earth invariably ends with how man is destroying this earth.

    Ultimate ego stroke for man. We can destroy a planet!!! How ridiculous is that? The power of man is insignificant next to the power of nature.

    Jeebus, I had to change the channel because I just couldn't take the puke spewed out by that show (Universe on History Channel).
    Penn & Teller's Bullsh!t
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  15. #165
    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    I just noticed something. There is no opposing view to "global warming" or "climate change" on any of the Discovery Channel type programs.

    Every single program that remotely deals with the earth invariably ends with how man is destroying this earth.

    Ultimate ego stroke for man. We can destroy a planet!!! How ridiculous is that? The power of man is insignificant next to the power of nature.

    Jeebus, I had to change the channel because I just couldn't take the puke spewed out by that show (Universe on History Channel).
    And of course, who can forget Darth Vader's words RE the Death Star:

    "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."



    -dale

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