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Thread: Global Warming, A Good Thing?

  1. #136
    Banned Military Professional Elbmek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    Point of no return from what? Please provide details.

    -dale
    The point were damage to the Earth becomes irreversible. I presume when Mother Nature "gives up". Mind you, how many times are these so called experts right? It was a while ago, actually the date as given was 2049; how they can be that precise? I dunno?

  2. #137
    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbmek View Post
    The point were damage to the Earth becomes irreversible.
    What damage?

    Irreversible like when comet fragments smacked into us and the planet was fine, or when miles-thick ice sheets buried most land masses for millenia and the planet was fine, or when giant basaltic flows poured out over huge stretches of continental surface and the planet was fine, or when Pangea formed and shallow coastal environments were cut by 75% and the planet was fine?

    You mean irreversible like that?

    I presume when Mother Nature "gives up".
    What does that even mean?

    Mind you, how many times are these so called experts right?
    The doomsayers and scaremangers? Never. They are never right.

    It was a while ago, actually the date as given was 2049; how they can be that precise? I dunno?
    They can't - they are posturing and trying to scare you.

    -dale

  3. #138
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    I bow to Ahnold's power.

    He signed an anti-global warming bill a few short weeks ago and immediately we experience a cold spell that doomed most of our citrus crop.

    Global warming must be real, because we have legislations against it now.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  4. #139
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    Stirring it up


  5. #140
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuddingfoot View Post
    Seen them all before. Heard them all before. Same old stuff on how humans are terrible; how fragile the environment is; earth is dying; we're killing the planet...blah blah blah.

    If you were in the 70s, the next ice age was the big concern as the earth was "cooling" for 3 decades leading up to the 70s. We were the cause of it all. We were killing the planet, damaging the environment, destroying the earth...blah blah blah.

    Climate is changing. That's what this planet does. It gets hotter. It gets colder. It gets wetter. It gets dryer. We aren't the cause. Nor will we be the cure. It does what it does with or without our help.

    And what's with this worry about the planet? The environment is not fragile. The earth is not fragile. We are. The earth will be here 1 billion years from now. Doesn't matter if it's scorching hot or freezing cold. We won't be. Earth will be here after getting hit by an asteroid that can wipe out human race. Earth has managed to do just fine after 4.5 billion years. We are the fragile ones.

    The so-called "smoking gun" is just a bunch of correlations. No one can conduct a controlled experiment to see exactly how the earth responds to different level of human interference. It's their best guess using a biased model of "global warming."

    My proposal is to resume atmospheric nuclear tests and relax environmental laws. The earth was getting cooler right before we abandoned above ground nuclear tests and tightened up the pollution laws. Coincidence? I think not!
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  6. #141
    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuddingfoot View Post
    Blah blah blah. Same old crap from the same old sources.

    -dale

  7. #142
    Senior Contributor Canmoore's Avatar
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    Yup, Global Warming has hit Canada.

    Outside the temperature is about -23, -30's with the wind.

  8. #143
    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canmoore View Post
    Yup, Global Warming has hit Canada.

    Outside the temperature is about -23, -30's with the wind.
    Be fair - weather is not climate whether it's warm or cold.

    -dale

  9. #144
    Banned Military Professional Elbmek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canmoore View Post
    Yup, Global Warming has hit Canada.

    Outside the temperature is about -23, -30's with the wind.
    Just had an email from a friend of mine in Vancouver; current temps there are hovering around 13C

  10. #145
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elbmek View Post
    Just had an email from a friend of mine in Vancouver; current temps there are hovering around 13C
    And they are complaining of the cold............
    <img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />FEAR NAUGHT

    Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

  11. #146
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    The two wuss cities in Canada - Toronto and Vancouver. Sergeant-Major, were you here when Toronto called out the Army for a mere 30 cms of snow?
    Chimo

  12. #147
    Military Professional T_igger_cs_30's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    The two wuss cities in Canada - Toronto and Vancouver. Sergeant-Major, were you here when Toronto called out the Army for a mere 30 cms of snow?
    Yes I was, I have to admit to a little chuckle while I was digging myself out that morning
    <img src=http://C:\Documents and Settings\Wayne Smith\My Documents\002...My Pictures border=0 alt= />FEAR NAUGHT

    Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

  13. #148
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    PARIS - Scientists from around the world gathered Monday in Paris to finalize a long-awaited, authoritative report on climate change, expected to give a grim warning of rising temperatures and sea levels worldwide.

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    The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is to unveil its latest assessment of the environmental threat posed by global warming on Friday.

    As the panel meets, the planet is the warmest it has been in thousands of years — if not more — and international concern over what to do about it is at an all-time high.

    "At no time in the past has there been such a global appetite" for reliable information on global warming, the panel's chairman, Rajendra Pachauri of India, told the conference.

    Scientists are keeping quiet about the contents of the report, but say it is both more specific and more sweeping than the panel's previous efforts.

    Early drafts of the document give a rosier picture than that of the last report, in 2001, foreseeing smaller sea level rises than previously predicted. But many top scientists reject the new figures as not new enough: They do not include the recent melting of big ice sheets in two crucial locations — Greenland and Antarctica.

    That debate may be central at this week's meetings at the UNESCO headquarters in Paris. After four days of closed-door, word-by-word editing involving more than 500 experts, they will release the first of four major global warming reports by the IPCC expected this year.

    "We're hoping that it will convince people that climate change is real and that we have a responsibility for much of it, and that we really do have to make changes in how we live," said Kenneth Denman, one of the report's authors and senior scientist at the Canadian Centre for Climate Modelling and Analysis.

    It has been an unusually warm winter in some parts of the world, and awareness of the consequences of climate change is growing.

    Last week, President Bush referred to global warming as an established fact, after years of arguing that not enough was known about global warming to do anything about it.

    The panel, created by the United Nations in 1988, releases its assessments every five or six years — although scientists have been observing climate change since as far back as the 1960s.

    While critics call the panel overly alarmist, it is by nature relatively cautious because it relies on input from hundreds of scientists, including skeptics and industry researchers. And its reports must be unanimous, approved by 154 governments — including the United States and oil-rich countries such as Saudi Arabia.

    Pachauri, director-general of the Tata Energy Research Institute in India who has served as an adviser to India's prime minister, said the report would make "significant advances" over the 2001 report, addressing gaps in that document, reducing uncertainties and adding new knowledge about past changes in climate.

    The early versions of the new report predict that by 2100 the sea level would rise between 5 and 23 inches. That is far lower than the 20 to 55 inches forecast by 2100 in a study published in the peer-review journal Science this month. Other climate experts, including NASA's James Hansen, predict even bigger sea level rises.

    Some critics worry that the IPCC scientists did not take into account shifts in Greenland and Antarctica.

    In the past, the panel did not expect a large melt of ice in west Antarctica and Greenland in this century. Their forecasts were based only on how much the sea level would rise because of melting glaciers, which are different from ice sheets, and the physical expansion of water as it warms.

    But in 2002, Antarctica's 1,255-square-mile Larsen B ice shelf broke off and disappeared in 35 days. And recent NASA data shows that Greenland is losing 53 cubic miles of ice each year — twice the rate it was losing in 1996.

    Scientists are struggling with how to plug this information into their computer models.

    Many fear this will mean the world's coastlines are swamped much earlier than most thought. Others believe the ice melt is temporary and won't play such a dramatic role.

    In recent years, scientists have documented a dramatic retreat of the Arctic sea and the virtual collapse in mountain glaciers around the globe. They have found plants and animals closer than normal to the poles. They have recorded temperature records in many locations and shifts in atmospheric and oceanic circulation.

    Indonesia's environment minister warned Monday that rising sea levels stand to inundate some 2,000 of his country's more than 18,000 islands by 2030.

    This week's meetings do not address how to tackle global warming, the subject of a report later this year by the IPCC.
    just to keep this interessting thread going

  14. #149
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    the planet is the warmest it has been in thousands of years — if not more
    They don't even know how warm the earth was in the past, but it's enough to declare this a global emergency and will doom the planet.

    The earth has been warmer in the past. It has been cooler. It's doing just fine. We should get over ourselves.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    They don't even know how warm the earth was in the past, but it's enough to declare this a global emergency and will doom the planet.

    The earth has been warmer in the past. It has been cooler. It's doing just fine. We should get over ourselves.
    Well you can get a very good picture of temperatures in the past from sediment examinations, ice cores taken for this prposes, distribution of plants and their rests found...

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