Electric Cars

Merlin · 04-16-2009, 08:56 AM

The world's first mass produced electric. The link below has a video of a test drive.

China plugged into electric cars

Quote:

16 Apr 2009 [BBC] A Chinese carmaker has launched what it claims to be the world's first-mass produced electric car.

BYD have only been making cars for six years, but have produced a car that runs on batteries and can be plugged into an ordinary wall socket.

The company originally made mobile phone batteries, and it is this expertise that has allowed the upstart to leapfrog the likes of General Motors and Toyota. ...

Merlin · 04-16-2009, 09:05 AM

Good Q & A. But no info on the Chinese electric car mentioned above.

Q&A: Electric cars

Quote:

16 Apr 2009 [BBC] The government's cash incentive scheme encouraging motorists to buy electric or plug-in petrol-electric hybrid cars from 2011 may sound tempting but are these cars worth it?

Is it true that electric cars are slow and perform badly?

Modern electric cars go much faster than you think, and since electric motors generate much more torque than combustion engines they also accelerate very quickly.

BMW is currently trialling a Mini that handles better than many ordinary cars, and Tesla's electric roadster is certainly no laggard, delivering 0-60mph in 3.9 seconds. ...

How far can electric cars travel before the battery goes flat?

It depends on the size of the battery, and a number of other factors. BMW's all-electric Mini E delivers 150 miles on a two-hour charge. ...

How and where do I recharge the battery?

If you have all the time in the world, you simply connect the car to the mains power supply to charge up the batteries. Instead of putting in a fuel hose at a filling station, you attach a cable that plugs into side of the vehicle. ...

How much will it cost to recharge and how long will it take?

There is much talk of 2 pence a mile motoring, a fraction of the cost of filling up with petrol or diesel. ...

Are they more expensive to buy than other cars?

Yes they are. Manufacturers have spent hundreds of millions of dollars producing these vehicles and they want to recoup research and development costs. ...

Are electric cars green?
It is a controversial topic.

Critics claim they are not because generating the electricity to power these cars means burning fossil fuels or using nuclear power.

Those in favour argue power stations are more efficient at converting fossil fuels into energy than combustion engines in cars.

entropy · 04-16-2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Those in favour argue power stations are more efficient at converting fossil fuels into energy than combustion engines in cars

Rrrrrrright...

Merlin · 04-16-2009, 10:50 AM

The British Transport Secretary thinks green cars are green.

Electric Dream: £5,000 To Buy Green Cars

Quote:

Apr 16, 2009 Motorists could receive up to £5,000 towards a new car, if they are prepared to go green.

The financial incentive scheme for electric and hybrid cars is central to the Government's new low carbon transport strategy.

It hopes to kick start the green car industry over the next five years and develop a network of 'electric car cities' throughout the UK.

Under the scheme, motorists will be offered between £2,000 and £5,000 towards the cost of a new green vehicle, currently retailing at prices up to £12,000.

The strategy also includes plans to provide £20m for charging points and related infrastructure.

Launching the strategy, Transport Secretary Geoff Hoon said: "Cutting road transport CO2 emissions is a key element to tackling climate change.

"Less than 0.1% of the UK's 26 million cars are electric, so there is a huge untapped potential to reduce emissions."

Mr Hoon said the incentives on offer made an electric car a "real option for motorists".

But critics said the vehicles remain too expensive and struggle to travel long distances. ....

Steezy · 04-16-2009, 11:42 AM

Only once batteries and electrical charging become better than the fuel tank and the petrol pump would the electric car become a viable alternative.

Also there's the point about generating the electricity, upgrading the infrastructure so it would be able to cope with it all etc..

Also coal/fossil power plants probably are more efficient at generating energy than car engines. When you scale things up and centralise it, things tend to end up working out to be more efficient, but still, it would be better if all the electricity was generated from wind/solar/hydro/fission/fusion

entropy · 04-16-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steezy

Only once batteries and electrical charging become better than the fuel tank and the petrol pump would the electric car become a viable alternative.

Also there's the point about generating the electricity, upgrading the infrastructure so it would be able to cope with it all etc..

Also coal/fossil power plants probably are more efficient at generating energy than car engines. When you scale things up and centralise it, things tend to end up working out to be more efficient, but still, it would be better if all the electricity was generated from wind/solar/hydro/fission/fusion

Until that, electric cars are more dirty.

Merlin · 04-16-2009, 11:59 AM

It is still a moot point whether electric cars are really green, see below. Click into the link for full debate.

UK Electric Car Plan Greeted With Suspicion

Quote:

Apr 16, 2009 Many people are not yet convinced that electric cars are the way forward for the UK, according to an online debate hosted by Sky News Online.

Ministers are planning to allocate handouts of up to £5,000 to motorists who buy electric cars as they grapple with ever-worsening traffic problems and the impending disaster threatened by climate change.

However, during our lunchtime debate, many respondents expressed scepticism that the electric car is the way of the future.

Sky's motoring editor, Alistair Weaver, took part in the debate with readers, along with Brian Gregory, from the Association of British Drivers.

Also commenting was green transport campaigner Sian Berry, of We Are Futureproof - formerly the Alliance Against Urban 4x4s.

Weaver said: "Electric cars have become a political panacea but they're a long way from being a real, practical alternative."

And Gregory added: "Electric cars still require the electricity to be consistently and reliably generated somewhere: therefore predominantly currently by fossil fuels or nuclear power.

"Wind power is not sufficiently reliable and wave power is generations away."

Berry on the other hand was more positive, saying that with development and commitment electric cars could help address climate change and energy security.

"We have lots of homegrown ways of generating electricity, but none of getting more oil once the North Sea is gone," she said.

"And when oil prices start to rise again in a few years (and they are likely to rise very steeply indeed as soon as demand increases again), we can't be left relying for our mobility and transport of essential goods on a fleet of fossil-fuel cars, buses and lorries that we can't afford to run any more." ....

entropy · 04-16-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

It is still a moot point whether electric cars are really green, see below. Click into the link for full debate.

You lose energy during the transport from the central to the car. And then you have dirty, expensive batteries.

gunnut · 04-16-2009, 13:06 PM

I think small electric passenger cars have a place in China, or any other place with high population density.

Are they clean? Not much more than gas cars. But gas cars lose efficiency rapidly during stop and go traffic and frequent starting and shutting of the engine. A motor doesn't lose anything during stop and go traffic or shutting down and starting back up again.

High speed cruising on the American highways...let's not use electric cars.

Tarek Morgen · 04-16-2009, 13:07 PM

High speed um..right...what was your speed limit again?

gunnut · 04-16-2009, 13:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarek Morgen

High speed um..right...what was your speed limit again?

Posted speed limit on highways are from 55mph to unlimited.

California's limit ranges from 55 near the cities to 75 out in the boonies.

tankie · 04-16-2009, 13:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin

The British Transport Secretary thinks green cars are green.

Electric Dream: £5,000 To Buy Green Cars

Here ya go mate ,

Business Secretary Lord Mandelson and Transport Secretary Geoff Hoon have taken an electric car for a spin as they launched the Government's package of measures for low-carbon vehicles. The Government will offer up to £5,000 to help people buy electric cars The ministers test drove a Mini E at the Knockhill Racing Circuit in Fife after announcing that consumers will receive incentives of between £2,000 and £5,000 to buy an electric car from 2011.

Lord Mandelson said the vehicles would play a key role in cutting emissions and pave the way towards a "low-carbon future".

He also announced a doubling of the 100 demonstration electric vehicles which should be tested on Britain's roads in the next 18 months.

Mr Hoon said the consumer incentive - part of the Government's low-carbon transport plan - would mean an electric car was "a real option for motorists".

The incentives will be introduced to coincide with the expected mass introduction of electric and plug-in hybrid (part electric-part petrol) cars to the market.

The ministers, who were in Scotland for the UK Government Cabinet meeting, experienced the electric driving experience first-hand by driving the BMW Mini E.

Taking their seats, Lord Mandelson joked: "This is what the Secretary of State for Transport is for - he is there to drive you around."

Mr Hoon completed a few laps of the Knockhill circuit before letting Lord Mandelson behind the wheel.

Afterwards, the Business Secretary described the drive as "very comfortable".

Merlin · 04-24-2009, 21:58 PM

Other than market info, here're some technical info about the battery.

China plugs into electric car market

Quote:

Byd's electric car; Battery that uses cheap ferrous ion causing buzz

23 Apr The car is a pretty ordinary looking sedan, which is not an altogether bad thing for an electric car. The weird, boxy "green-look" of so many of the pioneer models had limited appeal.

But it's the battery in BYD Auto's new E6 fully electric car, not the design, that is currently causing the buzz in the decidedly dejected auto industry.

Instead of being made with lithium ion, which is expensive, increasingly hard to come by, environmentally unfriendly and potentially dangerous in a crash, BYD has devised a battery that uses ferrous ion, which is cheap, plentiful and green. If it turns out to be as functional as the Chinese company claims, it could be the breakthrough needed to finally bring electric cars into the mainstream.

Warren Buffett obviously thinks it is. The U. S. financier invested US$230-million in BYD last year. ...

The E6 can go 400 kilometres on a charge, but it's actually designed for quick 10-minute, 50% charges, that will last 200 km. The problem is, an ordinary wall socket won't do the job: The E6 needs a dedicated, high voltage charging station.

BYD is working on that with Chinese electrical companies, the government and large fleet owners, such as taxis companies, and hoping for a breakthrough by the time it launches the E6 at the end of 2009. Meanwhile, it is expending its promotional energy on its DM, dual-mode electric-gas cars. ....

gunnut · 04-24-2009, 23:58 PM

Quote:

The E6 can go 400 kilometres on a charge, but it's actually designed for quick 10-minute, 50% charges, that will last 200 km. The problem is, an ordinary wall socket won't do the job: The E6 needs a dedicated, high voltage charging station.

I heard about that. I have some quesitons about this quick charge thing. That's a lot of energy to cram into the battery in 10 min. What kind of heat are we talking about here? What kind of voltage? Something just doesn't sound safe here...

Merlin · 04-25-2009, 01:20 AM

I didn't quote some other info which can be found in the link, for instance:

Quote:

... The problem is, an ordinary wall socket won't do the job: The E6 needs a dedicated, high voltage charging station.

BYD is working on that with Chinese electrical companies, the government and large fleet owners, such as taxis companies, and hoping for a breakthrough by the time it launches the E6 at the end of 2009. Meanwhile, it is expending its promotional energy on its DM, dual-mode electric-gas cars.

BYD -- they are actually the Pinyin initials for its Chinese name, but now the company says they also stand for its motto, Build Your Dreams -- already boasts the bestselling gas-guzzling sedan in the China market and is making inroads with the DM version of it that is now in showrooms.

The F3-DM goes 100 km on a single nine-hour charge from a household socket and costs about US$22,000. It's cheaper, goes further and is available a year ahead of the expected launch of its potential rival, the hybrid Chevy Volt that is slated for a 2010 debut. ...

04-16-2009, 13:06 PM	#9 (permalink)
gunnut *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 01-27-06 Location: DPRK, Democratik People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 16,048 Country:	I think small electric passenger cars have a place in China, or any other place with high population density. Are they clean? Not much more than gas cars. But gas cars lose efficiency rapidly during stop and go traffic and frequent starting and shutting of the engine. A motor doesn't lose anything during stop and go traffic or shutting down and starting back up again. High speed cruising on the American highways...let's not use electric cars. __________________ "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

04-16-2009, 13:07 PM	#10 (permalink)
Tarek Morgen *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 02-08-07 Location: Kassel Posts: 1,862 Country:	High speed um..right...what was your speed limit again? __________________ uh I might be wrong

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Will the Stimulus Stimulate?	Shek	International Economy	5	04-29-2009 02:35 AM
Electric Cars for Army Posts, But Fuel Guzzlers for Combat	Ironduke	The Field Mess	12	02-04-2009 23:03 PM
How quick can the US switch to electric cars?	Akaloc	International Economy	23	11-26-2008 15:54 PM
A viable Electric Car out of India	antimony	Science & Tech	13	11-25-2008 14:43 PM
Israel relies on electric cars to cut oil imports	Ironduke	International Economy	2	10-27-2008 03:40 AM

04-16-2009, 11:42 AM	#5 (permalink)
Steezy Contributor Join Date: 12-03-06 Location: London, England Posts: 309 Country:	Only once batteries and electrical charging become better than the fuel tank and the petrol pump would the electric car become a viable alternative. Also there's the point about generating the electricity, upgrading the infrastructure so it would be able to cope with it all etc.. Also coal/fossil power plants probably are more efficient at generating energy than car engines. When you scale things up and centralise it, things tend to end up working out to be more efficient, but still, it would be better if all the electricity was generated from wind/solar/hydro/fission/fusion

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)