dalem

Ahh. I don't know about that one. Most people go slack-jawed when I remind them that the Sun is where we get our heat from in the first place, and it's a little variable.

-dale

brokensickle

You have to admit Al Gore has effectively brainwashed this generation and it is our job to keep reminding people of the little fact that gets in Al's way, the SUN.



Ivan

__________________
"Evil opposes freedom and uses those who pervert it as pawns to destroy it."

wkllaw

First, don't accuse me of such a thing and don't put words in my mouth, I said no such thing.

Where did I ever say we should go along with it all, I was trying to express the futility nowadays of going against the these people who just don' listen to rational debate.

I'm saying that the majority already believes it and we can't affect it much because the majority isn't exactly that open-minded to rational debate. We've reached a point where anything that goes against the popular consensus on this issue is considered bigotry and it'll take a longtime for the general mood to change.

We could all believe whatever we want, but what we believe matters little without enough people to make some voice to the government.

__________________
Those who can't change become extinct.

zraver

Nice ad hominems rather than real rebuttals.

1- why not clean up the environment?

2- why not make money doing it?

3- what about the reduced cost from more efficient machines?

4- If Global warming is false what do we lose if we act as if it is, and if it is true what do we lose if we act as if it isn't. When does risk/benefit and long term profit rather than short term profit fit in?

BTW ants have been around for 120 million years or so and so obviously fill a niche in nature, we have been around 3 million or so years so in that sense yes the ants have an edge in nature.

Shek

Why not mandate zero pollution?

Who's driving demand? Consumers or government?

What is the cost of making more efficient machines?

Because the variables have such poor precision and accuracy, it is not possible to make an informed decision that is defensible. Nail down the numbers, and it becomes possible to start making informed decisions.

__________________
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

zraver

not possible, but it is possible to make less pollution



more efficient cars, CFL bulbs, energy efficient homes consumer demand is there, at least in America it has been the government opposing demand. American consumers will embrace clean technology as long as they don't have to give up anything more than money. people don't drive hybrids simply to save the enviroment, but becuase they act as they did and reduce thier footprint.



Surely not more than the cost of the war so far. Just fixing the oil industries pollution of 670 million tons to half that would reduce total emissions by more thyan 5% same with goal and vehicle pollution surely 500 billion or roughly 1 dollar per ton of emissions can see dramatic improvements and profits from spin off technologies and a greener fresher America.


great I agree 100%, thus there goes the debunking of climate change. But again why not clean up the environment what do we have to lose?

dalem

What do we lose? Intellectual clarity, tons of money, and liberty.

-dale

zraver

Wow, fear mongering fit for a democrat. How do cleaner emissiosn endanger liberty? How does good environmental stewardship fog our clarity, and if we invest tons of money in clean technology how does it vanish rather than go towards creating new industries and jobs?

dalem

You keep wanting to talk about cleaning up something. I'm talking about the fake religion of global warming.

-dale

zraver

All religions are fake and every one belongs to one or more of them, lets talk issues.

dalem

I'm trying. You keep talking about pollution when I'm talking about "global warming".

-dale

gunnut

Do you believe in any deity? If not, why not? If it's not real, you don't lose anything. If it is real, you gain favor in your after life.

__________________
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

brokensickle

I must have misunderstood you. Sorry if that was so. Your post seemed to say to the effect that consensus and perception was more important than the facts. I don't personally believe there is as much consensus as the media tries to gin up on the side of anthropogenic global warming.



My apologies,
Ivan

brokensickle

Gun,

Wonderfully said.




Ivan

Parihaka

And don't forget if the carbon taxes apply to food, hundreds of millions of lives.