Climate Change is real!!!!!!!!! - Page 10

dalem · 07-07-2007, 13:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bulgaroctonus

The hope is that the correction in behavior that results from the concerts will outweigh the carbon cost of the concert. I believe this concert is a worthy expenditure of resources.

I don't believe it is effective to accuse Al Gore of hypocrisy because his concert causes some emission of carbon dioxide. Most worthy deeds and causes need an initial expenditure of some resources in order to be effective. The expenditure of these resources may appear to be contrary to the goals of the project.

For example, when China built the Three Gorges Dam it destroyed valuable habitats and evicted more than 1 million Chinese from their dwellings. These actions appeared to be contrary to the Chinese Communist Party's goal of preserving Chinese livelihood with the dam. However, when the dam becomes fully operational in 2009, it will supply at least 3% of China's electrical needs. This prevents the use of coal for that 3% of energy, thus saving the globe some carbon emissions. Furthermore, the dam provides flood control for the Yangtze River.

Although the full impact of the dam, for better or for worse, will not be fully known for some decades, it appears its benefits will eclipse its painful cost.

In short, you have to spend money to make money.

In addition, it is disingenuous to fault Al Gore's concerts for carbon emissions when there are other activities that deserve our scorn. For example, the profligate use of plastics, wasteful driving, and government deregulation of the energy industry. I think Al Gore's concerts are the least of our concern.

Bulgy, if you believe that Al Gore believes what he says, then the Earth is seconds away from melting into a gooey slushpile - anything short of him sitting cross-legged in front of a grass hut breathing shallowly into a bowl of water lillies is rank hypocrisy.

Of course he is wrong though, and being proven more wrong every day. Hard to convince someone that their religion is wrong though.

-dale

ArmchairGeneral · 07-07-2007, 14:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalem

...anything short of him sitting cross-legged in front of a grass hut breathing shallowly into a bowl of water lillies is rank hypocrisy.

-dale

ROFLOLOL!

flogger · 07-08-2007, 03:14 AM

Its easy to prove Human global warming is true if your the IPCC policymakers

You just ignore or omit any caveats or alternative plausible natural explanations then call theories blaming mankind facts ,and make assertions to that effect into absolutes. Move a few decimal points about judiciously here and there (always to human disadvantage). You then ignore 'inconvenient' climate history over recent centuries. Then you say the argument about global warming is over before its even started and ridicule the naysayers by claiming there is scientific consensus when there isnt.

Voila! Roberts your fathers brother ..... we did it !

There has always been climate change and there always will be climate change whether we are here or not, so instead of wasting Trillions on something we can most likely do absoluterly nothing about lets spend it helping those most affected by it adapt to adverse climate variability.

Otherwise its all just hot air .... pardon the pun.

gunnut · 07-08-2007, 03:48 AM

Did anyone watch these concerts? Or went in person?

I kept my TV off to conserve energy. Someone has to offset the carbon generated by these self-righteous pot-smoking liberal hippie socialist tree-huggers. It ain't gonna be Rev. Al. So I took it upon myself to do my part.

Isn't it ironic that a "global warming denier" is doing more to save this planet from imminent doom than those who champion to save it?

arham · 07-08-2007, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chankya

Essays: “The scientific consensus on climate change” by N. Oreskes (3 Dec. 2004, p. 1686).

'Tis from Science.

Basic Information | Climate Change | U.S. EPA

An extract(All the various emphasis tools all mine) :

Of course they could be lying too. It's all a big conspiracy.

.

r u blind ?? cant u see the climate change around u ???

islands r disappearing in the pacific ocean at at rate of 6-a year

.

dalem · 07-08-2007, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arham

.

r u blind ?? cant u see the climate change around u ???

islands r disappearing in the pacific ocean at at rate of 6-a year

.

Prove it.

-dale

glyn · 07-08-2007, 06:46 AM

Why you lot are so beastly to Saint Al, and his altruistic efforts to improve the lot of humankind is quite beyond me.

Of course he needs all that power in his residence. His tiny office needs to be well lit so he can tirelessly scan the worlds periodicals to find even more evidence of something or other than he has yet revealed to us. As to the concerts (watched by many), well of course they have nothing at all to do with courting popularity, or 'name retention'. It is purely co-incidence that there will be an election in 2008.

brokensickle · 07-08-2007, 16:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arham

.

r u blind ?? cant u see the climate change around u ???

islands r disappearing in the pacific ocean at at rate of 6-a year

.

Interesting, I live on the central coast of California....the average high tide is unchanged in the forty some years of my life....All major oceans are connected,,,last time I checked.

I don't believe as you, just because someone tells me to believe. Although I believe there is global warming, the evidence for it being caused by CO2 is nonexistent, but the evidence for it being caused by a more active and hotter sun is proving by tangible and not at all theoretical instruments in various parts of our solar system.

You talk about disappearing islands in an ocean that for all intents and purposes the level has not changed much markedly in my life time or even since the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries to the present time

I understand that most of these disapearing isles are the coral type. Coral islands sink of their own weight when the ancient coral that forms their inter base breaks down over time. Sometimes coral isles will even experience a calving off process quite abruptly where a edge will suddenly and without notice snap. The very nature of a coral isle keeps them close to the oceans level as it is ocean water they need to grow.

It is when these isles over the centuries of their development collect seaweed and debris from storms and high water surges that they grow in height. Not to mention bird guano and the seeds of plant life that take root and build up the soil on their surface. Never the less they sit very close to the level of the ocean unlike their purely volcanic counterparts. The hollowness of their coral structure breaks down in time and compacts into itself causing sinking to occur. if the ocean actually grew higher it could contribute to the growth process. If a coral isle was born of higher seas in a more ancient time it would cause that coral isle to sit higher in the water. But since it sits higher above the ocean its top will not be replaced by new growth at its top, but the growth will start expanding out from its sides causing the island to take on a mushroom shape. Then the catastrophic calving of its sides will start occurring.

There is so much interesting scientific, historic and experiential fictional literature on the coral reef islands. An interesting fictional story worth reading to get a flavor of coral island life is a story by Theodore Taylor 1969 called The Cay.

I urge you to read the science of the building of coral reefs to further understand the hucksterism that is happening to you in the name of 'Gorebal Warmin'. There's at lot of hot air blowing from the mouths of the alarmist at this time for their own personal gain. Don't be fooled!

Ivan

flogger · 07-09-2007, 04:01 AM

The Earths climate has always changed and always will change whether we are here or not.

I'm sick of every BBC news story about aberrant weather being tagged with the inevitable 'climate change caused by humans' tag when there is little scientifically verifiable evidence that this is so. Carbon footprints .... give me a break ! I'm so fed up with subjective politicised theory of human driven global warming being presented as hard unchallenged fact by our mainstream media in Britain when it is of course nothing of the sort. Sadly most people believe what they are told and are too busy getting on with thier lives to seek out the hard facts. So this alarmist agenda has built up a real head of steam here sadly so much so that nobody even wants to hear more plausible alternative natural explanations. Because we have caused so much pollution and environmental damage in other ways we seem to need to purge our collective guilt by 'doing' something about (the one thing we can probably do nothing about ironically) climate change !

Instead of wasting Billions fighting something which almost certainly cannot be fought lets spend those billions helping those most affected by it to adapt.

**Parihaka** · 07-09-2007, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalem

Prove it.

-dale

Why just yesterday my little girl was building a castle out of pumice blocks on the edge of the water when damn me if a wave didn't come in and wash it away, IT'S CLIMATE CHANGE I TELLS YOU, sea levels rising, well it was on a volcanic lake , BUT IT'S STILL GLOBAL WARMING. NO WAIT, CLIMATE CHANGE, NO WAIT..

Ray · 07-09-2007, 10:34 AM

Not to worry.

The Boeing Dreamliner will be God's Answer to Sodom and Gomorrah.

flogger · 07-09-2007, 14:58 PM

Whatever happens hot or cold wet or dry you can bet your boots the current envirofascist movement will tag humans as the culprits.

Its no coincidence in that the current 'need to address climate change ' bandwagon only really got its momentum once communism failed in the USSR and the anti capitalist crowd needed a new peg upon which to hang thier agenda on. It seems too that much of the general public will be stupid enough to let them win this time by swallowing this 'we are saving the Earth' BS when in truth all they are doing is artificially hamstringing future economic growth for thier kids and the third world.

gunnut · 07-09-2007, 16:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Not to worry.

The Boeing Dreamliner will be God's Answer to Sodom and Gomorrah.

I wonder if Rev. Al and the Hollywood crowd will charter these new jets instead of the old ones when they have to go half way around the world to tell peole how important it is to save the earth.

Supposedly some musicians chartered jets to fly half way around the world to perform at the Live Earth concerts. Well, I guess you have to spend money to make money. You also have to warm up the earth before you can cool it down.

Wooglin · 07-10-2007, 20:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arham

.

r u blind ?? cant u see the climate change around u ???

islands r disappearing in the pacific ocean at at rate of 6-a year

.

Has the AGW side of the aisle gotten so sad they have to make stuff up now?

Quote:

Dr. Nils-Axel Mörner is the head of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics department at Stockholm University in Sweden. He is past president (1999-2003) of the INQUA Commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution, and leader of the Maldives Sea Level Project. Dr. Mörner has been studying the sea level and its effects on coastal areas for some 35 years. He was interviewed by Gregory Murphy on June 6 for EIR.

Here's what he has to say about sea level rise claims by the IPCC:

Quote:

So it was not a measured thing, but a figure introduced from outside. I accused them of this at the Academy of Sciences in Moscow —I said you have introduced factors from outside; it's not a measurement. It looks like it is measured from the satellite, but you don't say what really happened. And they ans-wered, that we had to do it, because otherwise we would not have gotten any trend!

That is terrible! As a matter of fact, it is a falsification of the data set. Why? Because they know the answer. And there you come to the point: They “know” the answer; the rest of us, we are searching for the answer. Because we are field geologists; they are computer scientists. So all this talk that sea level is rising, this stems from the computer modeling, not from observations. The observations don't find it!

I have been the expert reviewer for the IPCC, both in 2000 and last year. The first time I read it, I was exceptionally surprised. First of all, it had 22 authors, but none of them— none—were sea-level specialists. They were given this mission, because they promised to answer the right thing. Again, it was a computer issue. This is the typical thing: The metereological community works with compu-ters, simple computers.

Geologists don't do that! We go out in the field and observe, and then we can try to make a model with computerization; but it's not the first thing.

So there we are. Then we went to the Maldives. I traced a drop in sea level in the 1970s, and the fishermen told me, “Yes, you are correct, because we remember”—things in their sailing routes have changed, things in their harbor have changed. I worked in the lagoon, I drilled in the sea, I drilled in lakes, I looked at the shore morphology—so many different environments.

Always the same thing: In about 1970, the sea fell about 20 cm, for reasons involving probably evaporation or something. Not a change in volume or something like that—it was a rapid thing. The new level, which has been stable, has not changed in the last 35 years. You can trace it so very, very carefully. No rise at all is the answer there.

Another famous place is the Tuvalu Islands, which are supposed to soon disappear because they've put out too much carbon dioxide. There we have a tide gauge record, a variograph record, from 1978, so it's 30 years. And again, if you look there, absolutely no trend, no rise.

source: FAEC -

Read the rest of the article as well. It's quite revealing.

flogger · 07-10-2007, 21:24 PM

What the pro AGW fascists neglect to tell you is that sea levels have risen every century without exception for the last 12,000 years since the end of the last Ice age . The last century is no more remarkable in that respect than most previous ones. This is just more BS the pro AGW fascists want us to feel guilty about. It suits thier anti capitalist/anti globalisation agenda.

07-08-2007, 03:14 AM	#138 (permalink)
flogger Regular Join Date: 02-07-05 Location: Berkshire ,England Posts: 63 Country:	Its easy to prove Human global warming is true if your the IPCC policymakers You just ignore or omit any caveats or alternative plausible natural explanations then call theories blaming mankind facts ,and make assertions to that effect into absolutes. Move a few decimal points about judiciously here and there (always to human disadvantage). You then ignore 'inconvenient' climate history over recent centuries. Then you say the argument about global warming is over before its even started and ridicule the naysayers by claiming there is scientific consensus when there isnt. Voila! Roberts your fathers brother ..... we did it ! There has always been climate change and there always will be climate change whether we are here or not, so instead of wasting Trillions on something we can most likely do absoluterly nothing about lets spend it helping those most affected by it adapt to adverse climate variability. Otherwise its all just hot air .... pardon the pun. Last edited by flogger : 07-08-2007 at 03:23 AM.

07-08-2007, 03:48 AM	#139 (permalink)
gunnut *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 01-27-06 Location: DPRK, Democratik People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 10,217 Country:	Did anyone watch these concerts? Or went in person? I kept my TV off to conserve energy. Someone has to offset the carbon generated by these self-righteous pot-smoking liberal hippie socialist tree-huggers. It ain't gonna be Rev. Al. So I took it upon myself to do my part. Isn't it ironic that a "global warming denier" is doing more to save this planet from imminent doom than those who champion to save it? __________________ "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

07-08-2007, 06:46 AM	#142 (permalink)
glyn *Military Professional* Join Date: 09-15-06 Location: Penzance, Cornwall UK Posts: 6,886	Why you lot are so beastly to Saint Al, and his altruistic efforts to improve the lot of humankind is quite beyond me. Of course he needs all that power in his residence. His tiny office needs to be well lit so he can tirelessly scan the worlds periodicals to find even more evidence of something or other than he has yet revealed to us. As to the concerts (watched by many), well of course they have nothing at all to do with courting popularity, or 'name retention'. It is purely co-incidence that there will be an election in 2008. __________________ Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

07-09-2007, 10:34 AM	#146 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,276 Country:	Not to worry. The Boeing Dreamliner will be God's Answer to Sodom and Gomorrah. __________________ "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination." I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to. HAKUNA MATATA

07-10-2007, 21:24 PM	#150 (permalink)
flogger Regular Join Date: 02-07-05 Location: Berkshire ,England Posts: 63 Country:	What the pro AGW fascists neglect to tell you is that sea levels have risen every century without exception for the last 12,000 years since the end of the last Ice age . The last century is no more remarkable in that respect than most previous ones. This is just more BS the pro AGW fascists want us to feel guilty about. It suits thier anti capitalist/anti globalisation agenda. Last edited by flogger : 07-10-2007 at 21:36 PM.

07-09-2007, 04:01 AM	#144 (permalink)
flogger Regular Join Date: 02-07-05 Location: Berkshire ,England Posts: 63 Country:	The Earths climate has always changed and always will change whether we are here or not. I'm sick of every BBC news story about aberrant weather being tagged with the inevitable 'climate change caused by humans' tag when there is little scientifically verifiable evidence that this is so. Carbon footprints .... give me a break ! I'm so fed up with subjective politicised theory of human driven global warming being presented as hard unchallenged fact by our mainstream media in Britain when it is of course nothing of the sort. Sadly most people believe what they are told and are too busy getting on with thier lives to seek out the hard facts. So this alarmist agenda has built up a real head of steam here sadly so much so that nobody even wants to hear more plausible alternative natural explanations. Because we have caused so much pollution and environmental damage in other ways we seem to need to purge our collective guilt by 'doing' something about (the one thing we can probably do nothing about ironically) climate change ! Instead of wasting Billions fighting something which almost certainly cannot be fought lets spend those billions helping those most affected by it to adapt.

07-09-2007, 14:58 PM	#147 (permalink)
flogger Regular Join Date: 02-07-05 Location: Berkshire ,England Posts: 63 Country:	Whatever happens hot or cold wet or dry you can bet your boots the current envirofascist movement will tag humans as the culprits. Its no coincidence in that the current 'need to address climate change ' bandwagon only really got its momentum once communism failed in the USSR and the anti capitalist crowd needed a new peg upon which to hang thier agenda on. It seems too that much of the general public will be stupid enough to let them win this time by swallowing this 'we are saving the Earth' BS when in truth all they are doing is artificially hamstringing future economic growth for thier kids and the third world.

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