Julie

Let me tell you a family secret. The electric windows in cars.....my grandfather blueprinted. My grandfather was an architectural engineer for an industrial plant for 45 years, until his death. He happened to show them to an employee/friend of his at work one day. They went to miss out of my grandfather's desk, and the guy that stole the plans, had it patented, and sold it to a automobile manufacturer. Guess who?

HalAde

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Science has not proved that perpetual motion is impossible. It has only confirmed by experiment and experience the possibility that it is impossible. All it takes is one event to disconfirm that conclusion. Those of us in the New Energy aggregate suspect there have been several events over the decades which indicated that Perpetual Motion of the Second Kind, tapping an unknown source of constantly renewing energy, has occurred: viz., the Earth's Magnetic Field, cosmic radiation from the stars, charges in the ionisphere constantly replenished by the Sun, and hardest to believe, tapping the energy from the Quantum Vacuum per Wheeler, Dirac, Heaviside, Plancvk, Forward, Prigogine etc.

I believe that Perpetual Motion of the FIRST Kind, creating energy from nothing at all, is something only God can do.

Hal Ade
Gatineau.

Sombra

I think there are quite a lot contradictions in your post HalAde.

1. Perpetual motion is per definiton a device which keeps on working without the surplus of external energy whatever. Laws of thermodynamic say that impossible. If you have proof the laws of thermodynamics are wrong please show that.

2. Un known source of constantly renewing energy. Fine, thats like creating energy from nothing or?

Regarding the your examples of these kinds of energy:

- Earth magnetic field : Ahem , well earth core is cooling slowly , rotation of earth gets slower. Well, you can say the energy is spent slowly as it should.

- Cosmic radiation whatever kind you want to use its now that the energy will stay always on the same level. The cosmos gets cooler all the time.

-Quantum vacuum. Interessting thought. I think you refer to the "fact/thought" that the laws of quantum mechanics forbid the existence of a total vacuum . In these cases sporadically matter will appear simply said and destroy itself immeadtely. Its kind if a 0 sum game to fullfill the need of quantum mechanics. AFAIK

omon

1 you just made up new defenition of perpetual motion, congrads.
2 unknown sources are not nothing, it's just that you don't know about them.
earth emf, who cares it slowes down, it still be spinning in a mil. of years, oil will run out too, but it doesn't stop us from using it.
cosmic radiation, so what it's on the same level,(don,t see the point here) still present, still source of power, if we know how to tap it.
none of what you said is a proof of anything. sorry.
did you try to make a pm machine, numerous times and failed? i doubt it.
those ancient attemps to build it using gravity alone, is not what pm of second kind is.
nobody said you can make power out of nothing, taping perpetual power sources is the way to make pm machine of second kind.
tell me this, what happens when solenoid is deenergized?

dave lukins

I believe that Perpetual Motion of the FIRST Kind, creating energy from nothing at all, is something only God can do.


Maybe you have found the answer..as God was created from nothing and God created energy....

Sombra

1: As defined: Perpetual motion refers to a condition in which an object moves forever without being driven by an external source of energy

From the english wikipedia website:

A perpetual motion machine of the first kind produces strictly more energy than it uses, thus violating the law of conservation of energy. Over-unity devices, that is, devices with a thermodynamic efficiency greater than 1.0 (unity, or 100%), are perpetual motion machines of this kind.
A perpetual motion machine of the second kind is a machine which spontaneously converts thermal energy into mechanical work. This need not violate the law of conservation of energy, since the thermal energy may be equivalent to the work done; however it does violate the more subtle second law of thermodynamics (see also entropy). Note that such a machine is different from real heat engines (such as car engines), which always involve a transfer of heat from a hotter reservoir to a colder one, the latter being warmed up in the process. The signature of a perpetual motion machine of the second kind is that there is only one single heat reservoir involved, which is being spontaneously cooled without involving a transfer of heat to a cooler reservoir. This conversion of heat into useful work, without any side effect, is impossible by the second law of thermodynamics.The argument of the scientists is that no work can be done withou any external help. The perpetual motion also refers to violation of newtons I Law(Copyrighted by Pavan Kumar P N). According to perpetual motion, the direction of a body moving with a constant speed can be changed without the application of external force.

Or you can use the orginal word : which is roughly perpetual = eternal, without stop.

Point is : As soon as you use external energy to drive your machine its not a perpetual machine.

2. What is your 2nd point about a coil of wire: Maxwell isin´t vogue anymore too?

omon

sombra. some pm machines were made, and ran. while i agree no movement can be made without energy, some materials have internal energy, permanent magnets. using flux flow it is posible to make a motor that runs on perm. magnets.
there is also consept of electicly driven machines, that produce current, and constantly reuse it.
many think it's imposible, you are probably one of them, which is why my question still stands.
what happens when solenoid deenargized?

omon

read post 58. i don't find it unreal. do you?

Sombra

Omon, he say<s he did build a machine whcih produces more energy t. AS far as I am

concerned . Its impossible. If it was possible we can throw many decades of physics in the trash and right now I am not convinced.

omon

every decade or so it happens anyway.

any ideas on solenoid?

Sombra

Omon what do you think happens?

and what is up with the "solenoid"?

omon

my bad, not decade, but century. limits give way, new ways of acheving undoable emerge.
as for solenoid, forget about it, i take it, you don.t know the answer.

HalAde

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On contradictions in my post, please state those contradictions.

Because of time constraints, I'll reply to Item #2, and answer the other points later. Did you think that I believed that energy could be created from nothing? At the present time, I do not believe that, but there are those scientists/engineers who believe just that, for good reason. I refer you to a peper by David G. Yurth and Donald Ayres of the Nova Institute of Technology (Nova Institute of Technology)

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/aca...n_25Apr06c.doc

They are fit to argue their point; I am not.

Please refer to my previous post when I said quite clearly that it is widely accepted in physics that there are two versions of the concept of perpetual motion. This not something I have contrived, but it is a notion I have accepted from physicists I respect. I mentioned very clearly that there ios Perpetual Motion of the First kind, that being th concept that energy coyuld be created from nothing at all. Even within the Free Energy Community to which I belong, again with good reason, I would darte say that over 98% of t proponents do not believe that, simpl,y becuase we have never seen eveidence for it. As for Perpetual Motion of the Second kind, yes indeed, we believ that it is not only possible, but over 99% probable that a generally unknown source of constantly renewing energy can be tapped, that being energy from the Quantum VAcuum. As you mentioned, no sooner does a photon of energy come into existence than a counter or anti-photon anihilates it. Indeed, for every proton there is an electron, and for every North Pole of a magnet there is an opposite South Pole as far as we know, since some have mooted the existence of monopoles. The trick, though is to grab these virtual photons from the Vacuum into our 3D world, our material world, for our use, before they can "disappear". Also, in accordance with the First Law of Thermodynamics, these photons do not really disappear from existance, but return to the Quantum Vacuum for re-use, hence the concept of constantly renewing energy. If there is only a finite, and not an infinite amount of energy in the Vacuum, there are Billions of PetaWAtt-Years of it according to physicists Wheeler, Puthoff, Feynman, Schwinger, Sakharov and other respected scientists. Would you challenge their viewpoints?

BTW, the SECOND Law of Thermodynamics is indeed called into question. We F-E people contend that there is not only entropy, but under certain circumstances, NEGentropy as well.

My final point is that I no longer consider any law or theory in science as fact, as immutable, as I used to. I consider that such "laws" apply MOST of the time, but not necessarily all the time.

Hal Ade

Sombra

The answer is 42 but what is the question but I think you wont like it.

Sombra

The answer is 42