So far as I know, the USN's CB-1 Alaska and CB-2 Guam (completed in 1944) were the last battlecruisers not only commisioned but actually deployed on active service by any navy. They were seen as obsolete almost as soon as they were begun and it was only a few champions amongst the Admiralty, particularly Admiral King, who saw them as fast escorts for America's massive carrier fleet being built for the Pacific War, that saved these two ships from cancellation.
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The Alaska's: Battlecruisers or Large Cruisers?
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Originally posted by Albany Rifles View PostUSS Alaska (CB-1) was commissioned on 17 June 1944. She served in the Pacific, screening aircraft carriers, providing shore bombardment at Okinawa, and going on raiding missions in the East China Sea. She was decommissioned on 17 February 1947 after less than three years of service and was scrapped in 1960.[1]
USS Guam (CB-2) was commissioned on 17 September 1944. She served in the Pacific with Alaska on almost all of the same operations. Along with Alaska, she was decommissioned on 17 February 1947 and was scrapped in 1961.
These were the last of the true battlecruisers. However, the Soviet Kirovs were called battlecruisers, even though they were just large missile carriers.
The Pyotr Velikiy was commissioend in 1998 and is still in commission with the Admiral Nakhimov undergoing overhaul. She was commissioned in 1988.
I wholeheartedly and heavily disagree with the answer of this question. The Alaksas (CBs) were not battlecruisers. Described then and now they would be "superheavy" cruisers. Just as HMS Furious was not a battlecruiser nor was the Alaska. Battlecruisers were designed to fight in the main battle line against other battlecruisers and battleships. The Alaskas were the USN's response to ships such as the Deutchland class and a superheavy cruiser the Japanese were talking about building but never did (I forget the name of it at this time). I think the last commissioned battlecruisers were the battlecruisers of the Royal Navy and the Imperial Japanese Navy. I would love to give names right now but I am on the plant floor and dont have the time to make sure I get the names right.Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit Often...
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lol. You do know that the men who sailed on the ships called them battlecruisers and that there had to be official memos made to try and convince people to call them superheavy cruisers. Note: the memos failed. The sailors and admirals all called them BCs. Just because a bureaucrat wants to say a ship is a superheavy cruiser and not a battlecruiser DOES NOT MAKE THE BUREAUCRAT RIGHT!
De facto, they were battlecruisers. De jure don't matter.
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Yeah, just like every navy man I have ever spoken to has told me that their ship was the bestest, fastest, cleanest, yadda yadda yadda ship in the navy. Can't tell me they are all correct can ya?
To boot, I kind of resent being compared to a beurocrat. I fancy myself an amature historian of USN warships. Granted I dont know everything and I dont have Rusty's experience. Also, I do not refer to some bean counter's version of events. The Alaskas were classified by the navy as superheavy cruisers, as a former sailor I learned the Navy is always right, not the sailor (for better or for worse). To boot, most historians (wiki and the like not included) classify alakas as cruisers. In fact, her MISSION classifies her as a cruiser. Her mission was to keep sea lanes open agaisnt other superheavy cruisers acting as commerce raiders, that is a cruiser job, not a BB's or CC's job.Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit Often...
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Okay...just a dumb question, then.
So if they we battlecruisers they woudl be BC instead of CB?
Can't figure out why you Squids have to over complicate things! Like why is a V in VF mean heavier than air? Why not use an H?“Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
Mark Twain
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Originally posted by Albany Rifles View PostOkay...just a dumb question, then.
So if they we battlecruisers they woudl be BC instead of CB?
Can't figure out why you Squids have to over complicate things! Like why is a V in VF mean heavier than air? Why not use an H?
And they would have been named for States as a capitol ship.
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Originally posted by Gun Grape View PostNo. They would have been designated CCs
And they would have been named for States as a capitol ship.Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit Often...
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Originally posted by Harney View Postlol. You do know that the men who sailed on the ships called them battlecruisers and that there had to be official memos made to try and convince people to call them superheavy cruisers. Note: the memos failed. The sailors and admirals all called them BCs. Just because a bureaucrat wants to say a ship is a superheavy cruiser and not a battlecruiser DOES NOT MAKE THE BUREAUCRAT RIGHT!
De facto, they were battlecruisers. De jure don't matter.
The Alaska's were built along cruiser lines. Their arrangements such as the midships catapults, aircraft hangers, secondary armament numbers and placement, single rudder, armor scheme etc were all very much cruiser-style.
They were "unlimited" cruisers, the pinnacle of cruiser development unhindered by treaty.
And at least one admiral, the very one this guy cited, Earnest King, was emphatic about their cruiser role.“He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”
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Originally posted by TopHatter View PostI realize this assclown is already gone and if desired and I'm about to split this discussion off into another thread, but...
The Alaska's were built along cruiser lines. Their arrangements such as the midships catapults, aircraft hangers, secondary armament numbers and placement, single rudder, armor scheme etc were all very much cruiser-style.
They were "unlimited" cruisers, the pinnacle of cruiser development unhindered by treaty.
And at least one admiral, the very one this guy cited, Earnest King, was emphatic about their cruiser role.
Alaska 34253t Gneisenau 38900t
9x 12" guns 9x 11" guns
33 knots 33knots
12,000 miles 8,400 miles
9" main belt 13.7" main belt
4 aircraft 3 aircraft
1517-1799 crew 1669 crew
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http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/u.../cru/cb1cl.htm
CB-1 Alaska Class
Alaska class cruiser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Since I am too tired to go into it more deeply, here are just some of the places you an find info on these ships.
If you want compare the Alaskas to the only battlecruiser ever (almost) built by the USN, the Lexingtons.
To boot, don't compare the Alaska to the Sharnhorst. The German battlecruisers were intended and designed to be armed with 6 x 15" guns, not the 9 x 11" she was armed with as a stop gap measure to get her to sea faster. You want to compare to to a German ship, compare her to the Graf Spee.Hit Hard, Hit Fast, Hit Often...
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Does anyone have any resources for some high-res photos of the alaskas? Compared to the Iowas, they are incredibly few and far between.
Also, a hypothetical for everyone, suppose the Alaskas hadnt been scrapped, and instead remained in reserve. Any possibility they have been recommissioned in addition to, or even instead of, the Iowas in the 1980s? Seems like they could be reequipped to carry pretty much the same missile load as an Iowa, with many fewer men.
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Originally posted by maximusslade View Posthttp://www.history.navy.mil/photos/u.../cru/cb1cl.htm
CB-1 Alaska Class
Alaska class cruiser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Since I am too tired to go into it more deeply, here are just some of the places you an find info on these ships.
If you want compare the Alaskas to the only battlecruiser ever (almost) built by the USN, the Lexingtons.
To boot, don't compare the Alaska to the Sharnhorst. The German battlecruisers were intended and designed to be armed with 6 x 15" guns, not the 9 x 11" she was armed with as a stop gap measure to get her to sea faster. You want to compare to to a German ship, compare her to the Graf Spee.
The Alaska's stand up well vs other battle cruisers as well: Derfflinger-class, Lion Class, Moltke class, Indefatigable class, Queen Mary and Dunkerque class etc. All including the Alaska share a similar gun size 10-14", thinner main belt armor, high speed and come in well over 20,000 tons with some over 30,000 tons.
other than how she was named, how is she not a battle cruiser in terms of capabilities?
Also in your earlier post you said,
I wholeheartedly and heavily disagree with the answer of this question. The Alaksas (CBs) were not battlecruisers. Described then and now they would be "superheavy" cruisers. Just as HMS Furious was not a battlecruiser nor was the Alaska. Battlecruisers were designed to fight in the main battle line against other battlecruisers and battleships. The Alaskas were the USN's response to ships such as the Deutchland class and a superheavy cruiser the Japanese were talking about building but never did (I forget the name of it at this time). I think the last commissioned battlecruisers were the battlecruisers of the Royal Navy and the Imperial Japanese Navy. I would love to give names right now but I am on the plant floor and dont have the time to make sure I get the names right.
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Originally posted by maximusslade View PostBattlecruisers were designed to fight in the main battle line against other battlecruisers and battleships.
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There's a bunch of different definitions of 'battlecruiser' floating around this thread. Nobody's gonna persuade anybody about the Alaskas until a common definition has been settled on. What exactly constitutes a battlecruiser has never been clear from the beginning, however, so this may be difficult.
Originally posted by maximussladeIn fact, her MISSION classifies her as a cruiser. Her mission was to keep sea lanes open agaisnt other superheavy cruisers acting as commerce raiders, that is a cruiser job, not a BB's or CC's job.I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.
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