Expat Canuck

Haha owned!

Broken, it's like you have no concept of deciet. You must be one hell of an honest man. Want to meet my sister? Oh nevermind, she likes men she can't kick the crap out of.

Fonnicker

Funny, I would say the same thing about this administration. They look down their noses at americans. The script their press conferences and blackball journalists because they have tough questions. Hell, they eventually had to gather all their interns together for press conferences because the media eventually realized that it is pointless to go to these "press conferences" because the can't ask tough questions and follow-ups. The truth is, if you wan't to prove that your conservative point of view is true it's easy to find. Leader, you prove that everyday. If you wan't to find liberal support in the media, well that's easy to find too.

One thing that you do leader which is infuriating, is that you are insulting to those who think for feel differently that you. You say that they can't back it up with facts, when all you do is call their facts liberal media biass. How is the high road, anyway?

I am certain that each line of this reply will be cut to pieces with your wit. I've come to expect it from you.

Know this. Believe it or not, it is possible to love this country and not support this war. It is possible to love this country while still holding this administration in contempt.

__________________

Quote:

"And a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your Commander-in-Chief." - George W. Bush - October, 2004.

Bluesman

I believe that YOU believe that. But I also believe you have to be really, really stupid to not understand the consequences of losing the war, which we shall surely do if support for it collapses.

So, Fonnicker, either you do NOT love this country, or you're really, really stupid.

Could be both, actually. From your posts, this is the odds-on favorite.

__________________
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

mtnbiker

Crazy risk? He already had bought off the UN. He probably figured he could buy off the IAEA as well(or already had). Plus he had bought off the French, so Niger was the perfect place to go.

Broken

Let me get this straight.

You think it is "mad" for Saddam to conduct a guerilla campaign against a force he has no hope of beating conventionally. You think Saddam was insane to emulate the tactics of, for example, the Viet Cong, another desperate bunch of losers.

Yet, you think it perfectly plausible for Saddam to import uranium from IAEA monitored mines 7000 miles away rather than use his own uranium- all in order to fool IAEA inspectors WHO WERE NOT EVEN IN IRAQ.

Broken

Heh. Does she like men who can kick the crap out of her little brother?

Broken

Here's a man who did not support invading Iraq. Is he stupid or does he hate his country? Here is what he said:

"The question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth?

And the answer is, not very damned many. So I think we got it right, both when we decided to expel him from Kuwait, but also when the president [Bush 41] made the decision that we'd achieved our objectives and we were not going to go get bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq.

All of a sudden you've got a battle you're fighting in a major built-up city, a lot of civilians are around, significant limitations on our ability to use our most effective technologies and techniques.

Once we had rounded him up and gotten rid of his government, then the question is what do you put in its place? You know, you then have accepted the responsibility for governing Iraq.

Now what kind of government are you going to establish? Is it going to be a Kurdish government, or a Shi'ia government, or a Sunni government, or maybe a government based on the old Baathist Party, or some mixture thereof? You will have, I think by that time, lost the support of the Arab coalition that was so crucial to our operations over there.

I would guess if we had gone in there, we would still have forces in Baghdad today, we'd be running the country. We would not have been able to get everybody out and bring everybody home,"

-Dick Cheney in 1992. LINK

dalem

Broken-

You don't really believe that a statement made ten years prior to 9/11 and Cheney's role as Veep is applicable in answer to Bluesman's point, do you?

-dale

Leader

Your post is nothing but personal attacks and straw men. If you want to debate the issues, I'm here. If you want to insult me and distort my arguments in your ignorance of my position, feel free to talk to yourself. I have better ways to spend my time then refuting the arguments of trolls.

__________________

Leader

Yes, he really does.

Bluesman

Is that what he posted?

Typical.

Broken

It certainly is applicable. Cheney was Sec Def in 92. In '98, Cheney's group "Project for a New American Century" sent a letter to Clinton advocating the removal of Saddam.

Now, Cheney has every right to change his mind. However, that does not render his prior analysis that of a stupid or un-patriotic person. In fact, the Cheney's first analysis appears quite precient, in light of subsequent events.

smilingassassin

Merely your own opinion, doesn't make it fact like you assert....

Heres the pot calling the kettle black.....


I'm very much looking forward to it as well, unfortunately it would seem Leader has better things to do with his time rather than reply to yet another emotional tyrade, so I'll have to enjoy it another day....

Yes, yes it is possible for one to feel so morally superior to others that they "claim" they love this country and yet lack the conviction to defend it because of the percieved moral lapses they see in their country and wrap it up in a nice neat phrase like "Believe it or not, it is possible to love this country and not support this war."

Why? Because they beleive everything the media tells them, even knowing the old mantra "if it bleeds it leads" is deeply rooted in the Media's news gathering strategy. After all its easier to beieve Iraq is a quackmire upon seeing footage of a sole car bombing rather than looking for the good story's backed by solid facts, all in the same day.

dalem

Look, Bluesman's original contention is that you cannot love one's country while simultaneously not supporting one's country in war.

Before war was joined, Person X may have not supported the idea, but once joined, his duty as a citizen is to grit his teeth and suck it up.

-dale

Broken

I quoted Cheney because it is obvious he would not have supported an invasion of Iraq in 1991. He clearly thought it was a stupid idea. If Bush 41 had invaded anyway, would Cheney's lack of support signify that he didn't love his country?

One can love one's country without loving one's leaders or the decisions of those leaders.
So, we should have stayed in Vietnam no matter how badly Johnson flubbed it? Are far as Iraq is concerned, it is time the Iraqis took responsibility for their own destiny.

In whimsical moments I imagine telling the Iraqis to shape up, or we will re-install Saddam.