Muslims in AP given more reservation rights. - Page 5

Hari_Om · 11-07-2005, 09:13 AM

The reservation is a nonstarter:

HC quashes reservation ordinance for Muslims

As a footnote the Andhra Pradesh High Court is headed by acting Chief Justice Bilal Nazki, a Kashmiri Muslim.

His biography is here.

Samudra · 11-07-2005, 09:18 AM

Hari,

Thanks for that post.
Esp for making a mention about Bilal Nazki.

Karthik · 11-07-2005, 14:35 PM

Thanks for that link Hari_Om.

Hats off to the AP High Court. The Act was in poor taste. It was nothing more than an act of blatant vote bank politics, of minority appeasement.

Look at some of the other communites - the Christians for instance. Not only do they head some of the best institutions in the country, they also make sure that suuport their own brethren. May be the Moslems in AP and beyond can pick up a leaf from them.

Advocate · 12-05-2005, 19:13 PM

JustBrowsing,

After an unforeseen elapse of time, I have recently had another opportunity to glance at the multitude of voluminous articles implicitly adulating the Gini Index/Coefficient posted on a Discussion Thread in this Forum, dealing with the Indian Economy.

It quickly becomes obvious that the rot of prostituting Statistical Tools to justify the agenda of economic thievery from those who dare to toil for their just economic rewards, is too deeply entrenched to be comprehensible to anyone who may have escaped from the mental decay that ensues from the lifelong exposure to the praise, and nothing but the praise, of top-down economic & social planning.

Just Browsing · 12-30-2005, 18:52 PM

Advocateji,

If it is any consolation to you then let me reassure you that although you may be in a miniscule minority but you are not alone in your concerns about the 'Islamist Bigots' operating in India in various disguises promoting the destruction of Civic Nationalism by various overt & covert means. I share your concerns.

Promotion of the top down institutionalized bigotry based on, first the caste, and now, increasingly, the religion of Islam, leaves very little hope for the survival of India as a Civic Nationalism in the centuries to come.

The political events in India since the start of this thread make it clear that the institutionalized bigotry based on caste & now, increasingly, the religion of Islam, has pervaded the Indian brain for so long, that the blindness to the simple logic of fairness is now fully entrenched.

Therefore, when, one sees an occasional flash of visual clarity in this fog of darkness, one cannot but be gratified.

I refer to the following posts by an Honourable Member of this Forum:

Quote:

Thread: Muslims question power of Indian judiciary

Post #15 on 11-11-2005, 03:36 PM

Having religious differences is not efficient in an increasingly sophisticated competitive free market economy. Time to get rid of the primitive notiions of human existence and move on with life.

There is no doubt that we need to do more to help the "Muslim" community in India better themselves but they will have to do away with many a primitive law and their law board will have to say hi to the history class and bye bye to daily life.

Quote:

Thread: India mourns Dalit ex-president

Post #9 on 11-11-2005, 03:19 PM

BBC

bak bak corporation

ONly in villages in backwards states like Bihar does cast play a role in daily Indian life. Most of us have moved on. Sure marriage tends to be within the cast but even that has changed.

There are two casts in cities like Mumbai and Delhi

The socialite rich crowd

other

India has a tradition of appointing minorities to top positions, be it Kalam, Singh, Sonia (Italian 100%) or even Indira who was a woman.

For all the bak bak comming out of the British media about the Dalit qualities of the ex prez, I still have yet to see a single person of colour being Prime Minister.

Quote:

Thread: Muslims question power of Indian judiciary

Post #14 on 11-11-2005, 03:14 PM

The Muslim law board was created to get the Muslim vote bank by Kangress brothers. It is in my opinion unconstituional in a SECULAR country. It should be banned and everyone who decides to make a fuss should either accept a homogenous secular Indian law or immigrate to either Bangladesh or Pakistan, the land ment for Muslims who cant live in a secular country.

In fact such laws are the reasons why there is lack of intergration with the poor Muslim community and other groups, how can these poor ever get out of the slums if they do not do business with the majority?

In fact we should adopt the same laws Muslim Turkey and France have adopted, ban the hijab and all other religious symbols, be it HIndu or Sikh or Christian or Budhist etc.

Surprise !

These posts are by Sameerji, the originator of this Thread, posted in other Threads after the start of this one.

Hear ! Hear !!

There may still be some hope left for India if more people in India begin to recognize the facts so eloquently stated by Sameerji.

Advocate · 01-25-2006, 04:46 AM

JustBrowsing:

A wise person may be averse to letting his opinions be modulated by common sense, logiic & facts.

But not for long.

Sameer · 01-25-2006, 09:05 AM

I have said a dozen times that Islam is not the only reason why Muslims are poor in India. Lack of ownership and access to credit etc as mentioned n times on this thread are major problems affecting the community. It is in my view that all backwards families be it Hindu Muslim |Christian or Jain (although Jains tend to be rich) should be helped by the state and state run institutions. More importantly Muslims need access to credit and other fruits to growth. On their part, Muslims will need to do more to modernize their own communities and intergrate themselves better. Abolishing this seperate law board for Muslims bs should be a first priority for any government and the facination of INdian netas towards votebanking needs to be done away with. Muslims will need to intergrate if they wish to live in a secular country just like they do for the most part in western countries. For the ones who do not, there is always migration. This logic also works for the RSS clowns and the CPM who on their part have a home in China I am sure.
The complexities of economic development and minimizing inequality based on state failures will be lost on a certain member, alas, but in a country where 20% of the population live below the poverty line and where certain states grow faster than others, leaving anyone behind will eventually lead to two INdias and chaos.

Around 60% of the population depend on the agricultural sector and low productivity allied activities (insert your Muslim Indians and others here). This sector is dwindling as a share of total output. Inequality is increasing because India lacks flexible labor laws and the manufacturing sector has adapted to this by becoming capital intensive. This is the sector that is supposed to bring the farmers and the poor in general out of poverty with a minimum wage in huge numbers. The services sector is highly productive and will never employ a maj of the population. It is thus obvious to anyone that since there seems to be a lack of enthusiasm by the Indian voter to bring in a govt that will reform labor laws, the state has a responsability to try and help the MAJORITY of your population who depend on a dwindling sector that is agriculture and allied activities....
This is why I personally support moves to help the poor be it Hindu or Muslim, i could care less. It just so happens that 45% of this 20% of our population who live below the poverty line are Muslims. They deserve better. The state should do its job and the Muslims should do theirs.
I have often mentioned that in a country where there is no such thng as equal education, you cannot spit the mantra of equal opportunity at will. Even within schools, standards are different, some schools are better, the rich have better access, villagers have poorly funded schools and are not as well educated. Nowe I live in India most of the year and the above mentioned points are evident to me, perhaps not to the NRI diaspora or to the right wing elitists. Now i do not support the 25% quota for the poor in private schools because they are private but certainly in state funded schools, the govt needs to concentrate on the poor while the richer classes go to private schooling. Eventually a system of merit will be used ONLY when there is equal opportunity from the begining (equal opportunity is taken very loosely here, perhaps something like Canadian public schools, not perfect but okay)

While some may find comfort in the illusion that Islam is the only reason why Muslims are so disproportionately poor in India, it is is not and no right wing view will change that.
That is not to say that the idiotic \Kangress is not out there looking for the Muslim vote while the BJP and company are busy scratching their behind wondering why their elected netas are so good at stealing money from the state and of course why their "virgin senior members" are so busy being caught on pornographic video tapes (there are many more trust me

, the plight of the poor India continues while the other India soars to new gdp growth rates.
In other news, I am confused as to why some cant let it go.

This post is not addressed to anyone but since it seems that four months later, people are still up and about something the high court disallowed anyway, i figured i might as well post something too.

Advocate · 02-21-2006, 03:08 AM

JustBrowsing,

The year 2006 marks the 100th anniversary of a seminal event in the sad history of institutionalized Islamist bigotry in India & the Indian sub-continent. The sorry event occurred on October 1, 1906.

The laudatory tones of some of the opening posts, in support of the Islamist premise of this thread, is a logical and natural outcome of that historical event.

To describe & analyse the longlasting effects of that event & to clarify the fundamentally deceptive arguments being made in some of the posts in this thread, I'll use two devices commonly used in humanities & technology.

'Nomenclaturization' & 'State Space Transformation'.

More to follow this weekend.

Karna · 02-21-2006, 03:10 AM

Quotas are stupid.

Just Browsing · 03-20-2006, 07:53 AM

Advocateji,

Perhaps you have dozed off.

Time to get to work.

I am patiently curious about how you'll explain the techniques of "Nomenclaturization" & "State Space Transformation" which you want to use, to make your objections to the "Islamist Quota System" easier to understand and accept, WITHOUT getting yourself far far away from the topic of this Thread.

I know that proper "Nomenclaturization" does make concepts easier to understand. I'll give an example later.

On the other hand, improper "Nomenclaturization" muddles the mind.

Some devious Scoundrels, with the full co-operation of such muddled-minded Fools, have decided in India that State Sanctioned Institutionalized Religious Bigotry should be the hallmark of an Indian brand of "Secularism" and rewarded with Job Quotas.

These Scoundrels, with the co-opted Fools, try to sell their bigotry to the masses under an improperly defined "Secularism".

This is an example of improper "Nomenclaturization" to swindle the "Deserving" to the benefit of the "Bigots".

Secularism means that the State should have no business asking what someone's religion is.

In all advanced Secular countries, the interviewer is penalized by anti-discrimination laws if the interviewer asks the interviewee during a job interview what the interviewee's religion is.

In India, it is EXPECTED that, for a public service job, the interviewee MUST CLAIM what the interviewee's caste and, soon in the future after the implementation of the Islamist Quota, what the interviewee's religion are so that the interviewee may unjustly enrich oneself at the cost of others.

The Fools & the Scoundrels will have us believe that this is NECESSARY for the survival of Secularism in India.

Perhaps, like you, I don't fall, for a moment, for the subterfuge of one of the Posts above where I am assured that the Supreme Court will prevent the Islamist Quota from gaining a foothold in India.

That is a big lie.

Such an 'Islamist Quota' already exists in Karnataka, a province next door.

I, also, do not fall for the other rationalizations advanced for the necessity of the 'Islamist Quotas'. Because rationalizations for the 'Islamist Quotas' have existed in India for centuries.

During the medieval 'Islamist domination', these 'Islamist Quotas' were justified because the 'Islamists' are a deserving & superior breed and the undeserving 'Infidels' had it coming to them.

During the early 20th century, before the Indian Independence --- and, I may be stealing your thunder by saying this -- the 'Islamist Bigot' of the day, the then Aga Khan, was justifying these 'Islamist Quotas' because the 'Islamists' were deserving of such Quotas due to their numbers & their friendly attitude towards the British occupiers. The Indian Census of 1910 was specifically designed to address this after an Islamist delegation met Minto.

The whole reason behind the formation of Pakistan was to ensure that, otherwise, the 'Islamist' would not get their proportionate fair share of the societal goods from the evil Hindoos.

Now about 60 years after the formation of the Islamist Republic of Pakistan, we are offered some other rationalization by the Scoundrels and the Fools to continue the Islamist privileges.

While you deal with the "micro-loans from the banks" offered as solutions for the "Islamist Bigotry", as these loans have "solved"(?) this problem in Bangladesh, let me move on to help you with another matter.

I'll give an example, if I may, of how " proper Nomenclaturization" can make it easier to advance a concept.

Centuries ago, in a time and a place, an arithmetical number such as 'forty' would be represented by the term 'XL' and another number such as 'eighty', by 'LXXX'.

With this "Nomenclature", it was very difficult to see that 'LXXX' was double of 'XL'.

A new "Nomenclature" was devised to represent 'forty' by '40' & 'eighty' by '80'.

And suddenly, it was very easy to see that '80' was double of '40'.

Good luck to you with your new "Nomenclaturization" & "State Space Transformation" to explain the evil of Islamist Quotas'.

In closing, may I add that Nehru knew that India's road to Hell was paved with "Islamist Quotas".

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...d~for~votes%27

"The Constituent Assembly had a sub-committee which was headed by Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel and Pandit Nehru and Dr Ambedkar were its members. What the first draft discussed was reservation for religious minorities. Pandit Nehru opposed it saying it would lead to isolation."

Sixty years later, the march toward 'Religious Bigotry' carries on under the banner of 'Secularism'.

Only in India.

Ray · 03-20-2006, 08:18 AM

Just Browsing,

Rather well written.

Karthik · 03-20-2006, 12:17 PM

Just browsing,

I live Bangalore, and I think I know what you mean.

In my own class, there are three Muslims. All three of them got into engineering through a quota earmarked only for Muslims. There are those of us in our class who have sacrificied two years of our teenage lives to work hard and get into an engineering college of good repute. I feel outraged that some people get in through mere quotas without putting in hard work.

During theory hours or laboratory sessions on Fridays, these three blokes get special permission to leave the class for their Namaz. Sometimes, they ask for a leave during wierd hours like noon or early afternoon. No proffesor can do anything about it, and the othes in the class cant help but roll their eyes in utter frustration.

They call this secularism. Secularism, my hat ! I have never heard of such asinine stupidity.

Just Browsing · 04-18-2006, 23:55 PM

Karthikji,

There are numerous advantages in having a discussion in an Internet Forum such as this one.

These advantages did not exist in the public domain historically when the Fools & the Scoundrels in India went about their merry business of corrupting the Indian polity to its core.

In the past, it was difficult to get an overall view of the damage they had done, or were causing, or would continue with.

Internet gives us the ability to attempt to prevent them from doing so by public exposure, logic and facts. And if they continue to attempt to bamboozle us with lies, fraud & deception, then we can counter them with contempt, scorn and public humiliation,

Another advantage of an Internet Forum such as this one, is that it has become easier to research and verify facts due to its vast reach.

I am grateful to you for providing an independent corroboration based on personal experience, of a statement I had made earlier about the modern religious corruption of public policy administration in the great state of Karnataka.

Yet another advantage of an Internet Forum such as this one, is an increase in one's ability to expose less well-known scams being perpetrated by the con men and the double dealers.

For example.

If you happen to have a friend who has spent a significant part of his life in the 'most enlightened' state of Kerala, you may find that the degree of the Islamist ordained right to the fruits of the Non-Islamist labour is twice as bad as it is in Karnataka.

Not too many people in the South, and still fewer in the North of India, remember that Kerala was a place of one of the earliest displays of the Islamist Riots and Butchery in British India. Similar events have continued there after the Indian Independence.

Many Islamists from Kerala left for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in 1947 and, presumably, benefited from the chattels and the real estate robbed from the escaping evil Hindoos. The Gandhis & the Nehrus of the day did little to seek compensation for the property lost by the escaping wretches.

A number of these Keralite Islamist Bigots have sought to return in the recent years to the Land of the Indian Fools on humanitarian grounds of old age.

Another advantage of an Internet Forum such as this one, is that an infrequent insight achieved into the Truth can be brought to the attention of many.

For example.

I repeat a 'rather well written' post by Rayji in another Thread, which is equally apt for the discussion here because Sameerji has used in his Posts above, an Indian Muslim characteristic exhibited, according to him, by a significant number of Indian Muslims, and correctly described by Rayji, to justify why the Non-Islamists should support the Islamist Quotas as a reward, or otherwise, to the Islamists.

Quote:

Ray on 03-10-2006, 02:10 PM; Post #32 in World Affairs Board > Political Forums > South Asian Politics > Muslims blow up Varanasi

There is nothing wrong in the Moslem community of India per se.

The majority of the Moslems who remained behind after the Partition were artisans or traders. They were not educated and more prone to living in "ghettos" since that was the way it was also in British India and duly encouraged by the Imperial Govt.

These ghettos has encouraged what is known world wide as the "ghetto mentality". Obviously, living amongst ones own gives an insular outlook to the world. Islam being a very stringent , demanding and discipline exacting religion, very few could harbour such ideas as "secularism" - the new found mantra of India.

All would have been still well. However, this "secularism" (no one knows the exact paradigm) and insular mentality of the Moslems wizard another phenomenon - the vote bank politics! Since the Moslems preferred to remain in their ghettos, not get educated and pursue professions of their ancestors within their ghettos and thereby not integrating with the remainder of India (Hindus, Christians, Buddhists et al), they remained backward and as with those who exist moribund and status quo, hoped for some status and economic salvation through some psychological, religious or Heavenly windfall. Obviously, such is but a dream.

The Moslem continued thus to wallow in poverty, illiteracy and total hopelessness.

In this step in two sly customers - the religious and the political hacks.

They churned the chemistry of the Moslem hopelessness and drove in further fears of conspiracies against them etc. The Moslem mindset slowly through this brainwashing started to believe such conspiracies. Thus the design was set.

The politicians feeding the fear of imagined divide of Moslems versus the rest and by blaming all for their miseries ensured that the Moslem votes was for their picking and thereby ensuring that politician's career into perpetuity (and his children as they would step in and continue the mugs game). Thus began what is known as "vote bank politics".

The religious heads realised that if the Moslems embraced secularism, they would be jobless and would not be able to feed themselves with the fat of religious donations. Hence, they too capitalised on the religious divide and drove the knife in further!

And all the time, inspite of promises of emancipation by both the vote bank driven politician and the Moslem religious head, the Moslems continued to wallow and sink even further.

The Moslems found their power through gangland leadership since for illiterates but with many dreams, it was the only avenue. Indian mafiosi so to say. While they were figures who should have been reviled, they became symbols of aspiration since they personified power and equality (since the mafiosi was also the right hand of the politicians and hobnobbed in charmed circles inspite of being crude with guttersnipe manners and being totally illiterate). Thus, a large number of Moslems became petty criminals and famous and ruthless gangland leaders (this is a fact on police records and reports of gangland activities in the dailies indicate the Moslem proliferation in such activities).

Now, with the GWoT and what their Mullahs have preached to them, they feel that the world is against them and not only the other communities of India. To them OBL has become the hero since like the Mafiosi like Dawood etc, he too has taken on the powerful on their terms and have kept the powerful on the hop. To those who feel deprived, such nefarious characters provide a heady elixir! Hence, they willing join in in such activities and they are paid well!

Therefore, the find Moslems (even of Indian origin) indulging in terrorism in the name of Islam should not be surprising.

The only small problem is that the Indian Fools & Scoundrels also expect, nay demand, that the evil Hindoos pay the price of these Islamist traits, in the form of the Islamist Quotas.

But let us count our few blessings here.

To save us time, an intelligent and educated person such as Sameerji has made our job easier by giving us a long list of reasons, platitudes, verbiage, digressions and non sequiturs as justification for the Islamist Quotas.

The problem is that these reasons, platitudes, verbiage, digressions and non sequiturs are as fraudulent as the Gini Index. ( I intend to come back to give the Gini Index an unholy burial, later. )

Presently, our task should be to expose the fraud & the deception inherent in those reasons, platitudes, verbiage, digressions and non sequiturs.

Even his last Post which he, apparently, intended to sound relatively reasonable, contains flaws just as fundamental as those hiding behind his use of the Gini Index earlier in this Thread.

As time permits in the coming weeks & months, I intend to expose each and every foolishness I can find, starting with Sameerji's last Post in this Thread. Not surprisingly, at least, one of the delusions contained in that Post has seemingly been adopted as an important plank of the current Indian Economic Policy by someone who used to be a great economist in his earlier life and has now let his judgment be corrupted by political expediency. I, of course, refer to The Great Dr. Manmohan Singh.

I believe another of the delusions contained in the same Post may have contributed to the downfall of the NDA Government. I intend to provide my arguments in support of my belief, in a future Post in its proper context.

Nevertheless.

Please don't lose hope. You are the future of India.

There are only two things which may save India yet. And, fortunately, they can both be propagated by the Internet.

More soon.

Advocate · 05-18-2006, 20:53 PM

Just Browsing:

Far be it from me to interrupt your discourse. But pardon me for doing so. I have an apology to tender.

You pointed out in a recent post that I have been a bit lax in my pursuance of the themes of Nomenclaturization & State Space Transformation.

I stand suitably chastised.

You also said that pursuing these themes could lead me astray from the main course of this thread.

You were right again.

I also had yet another concern.

After I develop these themes to address the misconceptions spread by the pseudo-literates, I would have to repeat the same process in other threads of this forum where some Caste-ist & Khalistani bigots are playing fast and loose with history & common sense.

My solution was a plan to post an exposition of these themes on a separate webpage which I could, then, link to, any time I needed to. Thus I would avoid unnecessary repitition in other threads even if this very thread became archived or unavailable for some reason.

I am still working towards that solution in my spare time in the next few weeks. Once there, I will, then, pursue those themes to show how the Islamist, the Caste-ist & the Khalistani bigots are created by the same process.

I hope you now understand my reason for the delay.

On a related matter:

You gave a wonderful example of how proper Nomenclaturiztion has assisted humans in advancing their arithmetical skills.

Similarly, one can use Nomenclaturization to see clearly how the Islamist bigots, the Caste-ist bigots & the Khalistani bigots, excreting guano on the various threads of this forum, are birds of the same feather and owe their demented existence to the same events circa 1906 of the Indian history.

Let us remember: Human fallibilities are universal.

Therfore, beware when a pseudo-literate Indian offers you his incoherent musings as an Indian solution for the condemnable swindles of the Indian Scoundrels. The Fools & the Scoundrels are universal.

But, in India, they are solicitously venerated.

So far, we have heard in this thread, that Islamist Quotas are a good thing because:

1. "All part of India's march forward, its not perfect but its aiming higher."

2. " India is not yet evolved enough on the economic and social front to trust that minorities will have the same per capita income."

3. " it is the responsability of the Govt to make sure that the gap is minimal."
( As in Communism: "From Each According to His Ability to Each According to His NEED". Or as in Socialism: "From Each According to His Ability to Each According to His DEED". And the pseudo-literates seem to have not a clue about other forms of Government in many Developed Nations, which promote Free Enterprise and cause their citizens to prosper without giving one whit to Gini Index. Damn you, Nehru, damn you ! I blame your ilk for putting in the Preamble to the THE CONSTITUTION OF INDIA, "a people ... solemnly resolv(ing) to constitute India into a ... SOCIALIST ... REPUBLIC". No wonder the said people suffer from eternal mental rot. http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~sk4zw.../preamble.html)

4. " it is the responsability of the Indian govt to make sure that the GINI coefficient is as close to the 45 degree line as possible."

5. " Muslim women are not working is a big one but the govt still has a responsabnility to minimize this by offering incentives."

6. " Now the role of the Govt, it can be argued, is to maximize social welfare and giving the minorities a lending hand is one such example."

7. " You cannot change primitive religious beliefs and cultures overnight, we cannot force Muslim/Hindu/Sikh/scheduled cast, you mame (sic) it to change their beliefs but it is the responsability of the govt to try as hard as possible to get school enrollmet by such "disadvantaged groups" as high as possible by any means."

8. " This is not only done in India but in other parts of the world."

9. "Canada, the US, England have rules wherein if you are a visible minority, in many cases, you may get preference in gaining a job, university acceptance etc..."

10. " cassifying (sic) people into religious groups may not be the best solution but the Govt's job is to make sure that minorities are as successful as possible, ie lend them a helping hand."

11. " the public sector is to look after minority rights and economic prosperity."

12. "Equal opportunity sounds nice but India is not there as of yet, only in theory, hence giving x% seats so to speak levels the playing field. Once the group's per capita income is close to or equal to the population average, we can dispense of such laws and move back to merit."
( A con game if there ever was one. The Caste-ist Quotas are a lesson in point. After 60 years and two generations, the Caste-ist bigots now want to expand the Caste-ist Quota so the New Brahmins thus created to form the majority voting block, can position themselves, in perpetuity, at the hog-feed-trough in the pigsty. The Indian Fools and Scoundrels are such a superior breed. They never lose their optimism to dupe the masses. )
13. "STEREOTYPING is usually a necessary precondition for social discrimination, and all the more so when various social and cultural realities are sought to be hardened into "identities". That is probably why, over the past decade especially, certain stereotypes have been systematically developed about the minority communities (especially Muslims, but also Christians)."

14. " The low socio-economic status of Muslims is now well-known; like the Scheduled Castes, they are disproportionately represented among the poor and have the lowest per capita income indicators. This is ascribed not only to the lack of access to asset ownership, but also to poor educational attainment and occupational patterns, which show clustering in low-paid activities, as well as the concentration of the Muslim population in the economically backward regions of the country."

15. " It is certainly true that Muslim women are more likely to be illiterate than Hindu women. .. However, the study shows that this is essentially the result of low socio-economic status, rather than religion. Across the survey, among all communities and caste groups, financial constraints and gender bias dominate over other factors in determining levels of education. Indeed, in those regions where Muslims are better off (as in the south and to a lesser extent in the west), Muslim women also have higher levels of education."
( One of the identifiable characteristics of the Scoundrels is the pliablilty of their arguments to suit the need of the moment. On one hand, the Scoundrels want me to know that "where Muslims are better off (as in the south and to a lesser extent in the west), Muslim women also have higher levels of education", thus implying that the religion has nothing to do with it. On the other hand, the Scoundrels want me to agree to the Islamist Quota in AP (' Andhra Pradesh') which is in the south of India and where the Scoundrels allege "Muslims are better off". Damn you, Scoundrels, damn you ! )
16. " The role of the govt is to maximize social welfare and them giving preferences to any backwards classes in an environment where EQUAL OPPORTUNITY is a long term project is not all that bad."

17. " in Toronto (Canada) they have proposed a law enabling homosexuals who account for 10% of the population of the city to be proportionally represented in the municipal sector, "
( In 1967, Pierre Elliott Trudeau, the then-Canadian Minister of Justice, eliminated Canada's sodomy laws and, famously, said "The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation." http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/25548.html His quote is supposed to imply that the Government of Canada had no business going into the bedrooms of the Canadian people to determine whether they were homosexuals in order to prosecute them. However, we are now told, by implication, that in the City of Toronto in Canada, the municipal government must go into the bedrooms of the people of Toronto, to verify whether they are homosexuals so they could be rewarded with the Homosexual job Quota. How otherwise, pray tell, would the municipal government know that the Scoundrels claiming to be homosexuals to qualify for the Homosexual Job Quota were not lying unless they could perform sodomy in front of the Government job interviewers? Ask the Indian Fools. They know the answer. )
18. " this Muslim 5% quota thing is a temporary rule that will beassimilated into the wider poverty aleviation programme in the next five year plan."
( Vide: My previous reference to the Caste-ist Quotas implemented (in 1947). I repeat. The Indian Fools and Scoundrels are such a superior breed. They never lose their optimism to dupe the masses. )
19. "45% of Muslims live below the poverty line compared to the national (2005) average of 20% as per the CSO. This is primarily due to the following and I am copying the much older 1991 CSO report (i happen to have a few pages lying around) on minorities which is unpublished. " "Muslims are predominantly in the handicraft sector as skilled artisans. A countrywide survey, which covered 31 districts, 12 States, indicates that out of 12.68 lakh artisans employed in this Sector, 51.89 per cent were Muslims."
( Remember this point when I draw your attention to it in my next post)

20. "Certainly the private sector has the right to hire by merit but the Govt has a responsability fo social welfare maximization and there is nothing communist about that."
( If you have managed to keep your ears perked up so far, you would know this statement to be a damnable, palpable lie. Just ask me for the 10,000 or so recent links to prove that determined organized attempts are being made this very moment to take this very right away from the Indian private sector. )
21. "India is not Pakistan nor Bangladesh, our country has a place for a vibrant Muslim minority and we should not be shy when it comes to their present condition nor should we shy away from working out a more permanent long term solution." ... " The quota system is nowhere near perfect but in the short term it helps and is easy to implement."

22. " Statistically Muslims tend to earn less than other groups and there are various socio economic reasons for this beyound the simple Muslim men dont let women get educated and work burka types..... A developing secular and dynamic India must look at this but implement stop gap measures in between."

23."You seem to live in a utopian world where you culd possibly execute 5% quotas for Muslim women alone etc etc etc, India is not a utopia."
( We are supposed to believe that the Islamist Quotas for the Muslims are easy to implement because Muslims are easy to spot. However Islamist Quotas for the Muslim women only, are so hard because the Muslim women look like Muslim men and cannot be distinguished. Therefore the Quota for them alone will require Utopia. )
24. "The aim of the AP rule is to help a very backward community out that faces multi domentional reasons for their economic condition."
( Please keep your eyes on the cards as they are shuffled underhandedly by the Scoundrels. . Please note that the incompetent progeny of a Muslim Judge of AP (Andhra Pradesh) High Court will not be disqualified from this Islamist Quota. As a matter of fact, this incompetent progeny of a Muslim Judge of Andhra Pradesh High Court will compete, without any qualms, with the eternally helpless poor Muslim artisans, to fill up the Islamist Quota and win. And the Fools & the Scoundrels will keep coming for more in perpetuity asking, nay demanding, from the Dupes for the sake of the eternally helpless poor Muslim artisans.)
25. "The rule will eventually diverge from race, colour and religion and move into pure income only requirements, this is the first step."
( Sixty years, and almost two lost generations, of recent Indian history of Caste-ist Quotas teaches me that this statement is a damnable, palpable lie. )

26. "In India’s history, merit based systems have not operated in the best way."
( Try telling this to the proud graduates of the Indian Institute of Technology, the very Institution the Fools and the Scoundrels are determined to corrupt with their damnable Quotas. )

27. "Muslims are predominantly poor in India because of the jobs that they have, mostof them work as skilled artisans and in other areas of the UNORGANIZED manufacturing sector where wages are low, low literacy rates because of inadequate public schooling etc etc etc"
( Remember this point when I draw your attention to it in my next post)

28. "It is obvious to any Indian that getting jobs in the public sector beyond the entrance exams are based on a multitude of factors beyound just merit, patronage and connections playing key roles, especially for higher classes x and above jobs..."
( And the proud traditions of the Indian Administrative Service, Indian Foreign Service & Indian Police Service stand untruthfully and unjustly maligned. Shame! Shame!! )
29. "Now I have no problem with someone arguing that the quota may make the fate of such people worse, actually there is an econometric study which shows a weak indication for that"
( But let us sneak in the Quotas in the mean time any way. What better time to destroy India's prospect of ever becoming a Civic Nationalism ?! )

30. "It does point that if the govt is t (sic) help looking at the socio economic background rather than cast for eg is a better. This will happen by 2015 if plans go on schedule."
( I have just as much faith in the promises of the Fools & the Scoundrels as I have in their honour and fairness. )

31. "It may also be possible while not proven and also because only the RSS tend to claim it.. that another source of Muslim poverty in India is the large pool of Bengladeshi illegals in the country. Certainly i can proove that in one piticular slum in Mumbai where our Netas have befriended them for vote baking (sic) purposes."
( Of course, the solution is obvious. Islamist Quota Zindabad ! )

Now let us be entrepreneurial. Let us use this secret Indian knowledge to justify Islamist Quotas in other countries. Let us go "Business Process Outsourcing". Let us get the Indian Fools & Scoundrels to earn their keep for a change by selling their skills to other countries.

Here is a problem, like the topic of this thread, just waiting to be solved:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060515/...NlYwNtdm5ld3M-

Study Tracks Plight of English Muslims

Sun May 14, (2006) 9:34 PM ET

LONDON - Muslims are more likely than other religious minorities to be unemployed and live in poor housing in the most deprived parts of England, according to a government study Monday.

Half of English Muslims over the age of 25 are not involved in the formal labor market and a third live in the most deprived areas of the country, according to the study commissioned by the government.

Muslims are also particularly vulnerable to long-term illness and experience poor levels of education, said the researchers from the universities of Derby, Warwick, Birmingham and Oxford.

"Taking the Muslim population as a whole, they face some of the most acute conditions of multiple deprivation," the report said.

The report said members of the Muslim, Sikh and Hindu communities were likely to remain concentrated in the same areas because families want to stay close together and many prefer to live near their places of worship.

A government spokeswoman said the academics had reviewed a variety of data, including information from the 2001 national census.

The government will use the study in its work to encourage equal opportunities for members of all religious communities, the spokeswoman said.

Sir Iqbal Sacranie, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said the research showed the poverty and other deep-seated problems that have contributed to the marginalization and disaffection felt among many young Muslims.

"We hope that this report serves to highlight the need to develop policies that are able reach into these communities and fulfill their needs," Sacranie said.

The solution for this Islamist problem should be as clear to everyone in United Kingdom as it is to every Indian Fool & Scoundrel in Andhra Pradesh.

Let us use Islamist Quotas in England as a solution for the problems of Londonistan & Subway bombings. After all, the Indian Fools & Scoundrels have already solved the problems of Delhi & Varanasi bombings by promising Islamist Quotas.

Let us start with the public sector in England. The Queen's palace looks good.

Rule Britannia ! Allahu Akbar !!

P.S.: Just Browsing; Pardon me again for my rude intrusion. You may now recontinue with your discourse. Inshallah, in the next post, I'll teach you how to use the Islamist Quotas in EP (England Pradesh).

Advocate · 05-22-2006, 01:10 AM

http://www.rxpgonline.com/modules.ph...print&sid=1737

Quote:

Youth for Equality - An Appeal
Date: Tuesday, May 16 (2006) @ 22:44:24 IST

By superashdoc in General section

On 14th May 2006, Mother India died again. The brutal and merciless assault by the Mumbai police on her dearest and most gifted children broke her heart. What had they done wrong? It was just a peaceful protest. Afterall the Hon. Governor is the chancellor of the medical university and hence like a father to us. If some kids wanted to express their grievances to the Governor where was the need for this battering?

Even as the gruesome visuals were broadcasted on the various news channels, the entire medical fraternity seethed with anger and discontent. Not only we doctors but even the common man wept for those innocent and spirited guys and girls who stood their ground. The boys were stripped and dragged and beaten with bamboos.Though there were no female constables, the girls were manhandled and ill-treated. What else can be expected from this Mumbai police. After all they have the legacy of the marine-drive rape to live up to. I was shocked to hear that one of the girls has a fractured jaw. And one boy Dr. Dube from KEM was beaten so badly that he has two fingers and ankle FRACTURE and hematomas on both knees. This is disgusting.

Our commisioner Mr. Roy claims that there was no lathi charge. Inspector Patnaik had the audacity to put the blame on the students saying they were blocking traffic and were going to break into Raj Bhavan. What a load of unreasoable arguments! Tell us Mr. Patnaik, What action have you taken against Mr. Pravin Mahajan, except for giving him five star treatment in the jail? What have you done about the international terrorist Abu Salem who thinks Indian Jail is a health spa and is pumping iron? No one fears the Mumbai police but innocent, poor and defenceless people.

If this does not open the eyes of our friends from the reserved category, what will? An old British strategy of 'divide and rule' is at play here. Please do not be misled. The demand is not to abolish reservations but to review them and allot them to the needy. The government want to use you as a vote bank to maintain their chairs and in the process cippling your talents and abilities. I appeal to all the students of the reserved category that we want you to succeed and become prosperous in life but not at the cost of your self-respect. We want that this tag of 'backward class' be removed forever and together we join hands to move 'forward'. Please open your eyes and support this movement. This battle is not about reservations - it is about equality.

If we lose now, the dream of Dr.Babasahed Ambedkar of a classless progressive society will be lost forever...

11-07-2005, 14:35 PM	#63 (permalink)
Karthik Seeker of Rivendell *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-15-04 Posts: 1,569 Country:	Thanks for that link Hari_Om. Hats off to the AP High Court. The Act was in poor taste. It was nothing more than an act of blatant vote bank politics, of minority appeasement. Look at some of the other communites - the Christians for instance. Not only do they head some of the best institutions in the country, they also make sure that suuport their own brethren. May be the Moslems in AP and beyond can pick up a leaf from them. __________________ "There is no excellence in all this world that can be separated from right living." - David Star Jordan My Blog

12-05-2005, 19:13 PM	#64 (permalink)
Advocate Banished Join Date: 10-18-05 Posts: 16	JustBrowsing, After an unforeseen elapse of time, I have recently had another opportunity to glance at the multitude of voluminous articles implicitly adulating the Gini Index/Coefficient posted on a Discussion Thread in this Forum, dealing with the Indian Economy. It quickly becomes obvious that the rot of prostituting Statistical Tools to justify the agenda of economic thievery from those who dare to toil for their just economic rewards, is too deeply entrenched to be comprehensible to anyone who may have escaped from the mental decay that ensues from the lifelong exposure to the praise, and nothing but the praise, of top-down economic & social planning. Last edited by Advocate : 12-05-2005 at 20:31 PM.

01-25-2006, 09:05 AM	#67 (permalink)
Sameer Banished *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 07-12-05 Posts: 2,541	I have said a dozen times that Islam is not the only reason why Muslims are poor in India. Lack of ownership and access to credit etc as mentioned n times on this thread are major problems affecting the community. It is in my view that all backwards families be it Hindu Muslim \|Christian or Jain (although Jains tend to be rich) should be helped by the state and state run institutions. More importantly Muslims need access to credit and other fruits to growth. On their part, Muslims will need to do more to modernize their own communities and intergrate themselves better. Abolishing this seperate law board for Muslims bs should be a first priority for any government and the facination of INdian netas towards votebanking needs to be done away with. Muslims will need to intergrate if they wish to live in a secular country just like they do for the most part in western countries. For the ones who do not, there is always migration. This logic also works for the RSS clowns and the CPM who on their part have a home in China I am sure. The complexities of economic development and minimizing inequality based on state failures will be lost on a certain member, alas, but in a country where 20% of the population live below the poverty line and where certain states grow faster than others, leaving anyone behind will eventually lead to two INdias and chaos. Around 60% of the population depend on the agricultural sector and low productivity allied activities (insert your Muslim Indians and others here). This sector is dwindling as a share of total output. Inequality is increasing because India lacks flexible labor laws and the manufacturing sector has adapted to this by becoming capital intensive. This is the sector that is supposed to bring the farmers and the poor in general out of poverty with a minimum wage in huge numbers. The services sector is highly productive and will never employ a maj of the population. It is thus obvious to anyone that since there seems to be a lack of enthusiasm by the Indian voter to bring in a govt that will reform labor laws, the state has a responsability to try and help the MAJORITY of your population who depend on a dwindling sector that is agriculture and allied activities.... This is why I personally support moves to help the poor be it Hindu or Muslim, i could care less. It just so happens that 45% of this 20% of our population who live below the poverty line are Muslims. They deserve better. The state should do its job and the Muslims should do theirs. I have often mentioned that in a country where there is no such thng as equal education, you cannot spit the mantra of equal opportunity at will. Even within schools, standards are different, some schools are better, the rich have better access, villagers have poorly funded schools and are not as well educated. Nowe I live in India most of the year and the above mentioned points are evident to me, perhaps not to the NRI diaspora or to the right wing elitists. Now i do not support the 25% quota for the poor in private schools because they are private but certainly in state funded schools, the govt needs to concentrate on the poor while the richer classes go to private schooling. Eventually a system of merit will be used ONLY when there is equal opportunity from the begining (equal opportunity is taken very loosely here, perhaps something like Canadian public schools, not perfect but okay) While some may find comfort in the illusion that Islam is the only reason why Muslims are so disproportionately poor in India, it is is not and no right wing view will change that. That is not to say that the idiotic \Kangress is not out there looking for the Muslim vote while the BJP and company are busy scratching their behind wondering why their elected netas are so good at stealing money from the state and of course why their "virgin senior members" are so busy being caught on pornographic video tapes (there are many more trust me , the plight of the poor India continues while the other India soars to new gdp growth rates. In other news, I am confused as to why some cant let it go. This post is not addressed to anyone but since it seems that four months later, people are still up and about something the high court disallowed anyway, i figured i might as well post something too. Last edited by Sameer : 01-25-2006 at 14:11 PM.

03-20-2006, 08:18 AM	#71 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 27,117 Country:	Just Browsing, Rather well written. __________________ "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination." I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to. HAKUNA MATATA

05-18-2006, 20:53 PM	#74 (permalink)
Advocate Banished Join Date: 10-18-05 Posts: 16	Just Browsing: Far be it from me to interrupt your discourse. But pardon me for doing so. I have an apology to tender. You pointed out in a recent post that I have been a bit lax in my pursuance of the themes of Nomenclaturization & State Space Transformation. I stand suitably chastised. You also said that pursuing these themes could lead me astray from the main course of this thread. You were right again. I also had yet another concern. After I develop these themes to address the misconceptions spread by the pseudo-literates, I would have to repeat the same process in other threads of this forum where some Caste-ist & Khalistani bigots are playing fast and loose with history & common sense. My solution was a plan to post an exposition of these themes on a separate webpage which I could, then, link to, any time I needed to. Thus I would avoid unnecessary repitition in other threads even if this very thread became archived or unavailable for some reason. I am still working towards that solution in my spare time in the next few weeks. Once there, I will, then, pursue those themes to show how the Islamist, the Caste-ist & the Khalistani bigots are created by the same process. I hope you now understand my reason for the delay. On a related matter: You gave a wonderful example of how proper Nomenclaturiztion has assisted humans in advancing their arithmetical skills. Similarly, one can use Nomenclaturization to see clearly how the Islamist bigots, the Caste-ist bigots & the Khalistani bigots, excreting guano on the various threads of this forum, are birds of the same feather and owe their demented existence to the same events circa 1906 of the Indian history. Let us remember: Human fallibilities are universal. Therfore, beware when a pseudo-literate Indian offers you his incoherent musings as an Indian solution for the condemnable swindles of the Indian Scoundrels. The Fools & the Scoundrels are universal. But, in India, they are solicitously venerated. So far, we have heard in this thread, that Islamist Quotas are a good thing because: 1. "All part of India's march forward, its not perfect but its aiming higher." 2. " India is not yet evolved enough on the economic and social front to trust that minorities will have the same per capita income." 3. " it is the responsability of the Govt to make sure that the gap is minimal." ( As in Communism: "From Each According to His Ability to Each According to His NEED". Or as in Socialism: "From Each According to His Ability to Each According to His DEED". And the pseudo-literates seem to have not a clue about other forms of Government in many Developed Nations, which promote Free Enterprise and cause their citizens to prosper without giving one whit to Gini Index. Damn you, Nehru, damn you ! I blame your ilk for putting in the Preamble to the THE CONSTITUTION OF INDIA, "a people ... solemnly resolv(ing) to constitute India into a ... SOCIALIST ... REPUBLIC". No wonder the said people suffer from eternal mental rot. http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~sk4zw.../preamble.html) 4. " it is the responsability of the Indian govt to make sure that the GINI coefficient is as close to the 45 degree line as possible." 5. " Muslim women are not working is a big one but the govt still has a responsabnility to minimize this by offering incentives." 6. " Now the role of the Govt, it can be argued, is to maximize social welfare and giving the minorities a lending hand is one such example." 7. " You cannot change primitive religious beliefs and cultures overnight, we cannot force Muslim/Hindu/Sikh/scheduled cast, you mame (sic) it to change their beliefs but it is the responsability of the govt to try as hard as possible to get school enrollmet by such "disadvantaged groups" as high as possible by any means." 8. " This is not only done in India but in other parts of the world." 9. "Canada, the US, England have rules wherein if you are a visible minority, in many cases, you may get preference in gaining a job, university acceptance etc..." 10. " cassifying (sic) people into religious groups may not be the best solution but the Govt's job is to make sure that minorities are as successful as possible, ie lend them a helping hand." 11. " the public sector is to look after minority rights and economic prosperity." 12. "Equal opportunity sounds nice but India is not there as of yet, only in theory, hence giving x% seats so to speak levels the playing field. Once the group's per capita income is close to or equal to the population average, we can dispense of such laws and move back to merit." ( A con game if there ever was one. The Caste-ist Quotas are a lesson in point. After 60 years and two generations, the Caste-ist bigots now want to expand the Caste-ist Quota so the New Brahmins thus created to form the majority voting block, can position themselves, in perpetuity, at the hog-feed-trough in the pigsty. The Indian Fools and Scoundrels are such a superior breed. They never lose their optimism to dupe the masses. ) 13. "STEREOTYPING is usually a necessary precondition for social discrimination, and all the more so when various social and cultural realities are sought to be hardened into "identities". That is probably why, over the past decade especially, certain stereotypes have been systematically developed about the minority communities (especially Muslims, but also Christians)." 14. " The low socio-economic status of Muslims is now well-known; like the Scheduled Castes, they are disproportionately represented among the poor and have the lowest per capita income indicators. This is ascribed not only to the lack of access to asset ownership, but also to poor educational attainment and occupational patterns, which show clustering in low-paid activities, as well as the concentration of the Muslim population in the economically backward regions of the country." 15. " It is certainly true that Muslim women are more likely to be illiterate than Hindu women. .. However, the study shows that this is essentially the result of low socio-economic status, rather than religion. Across the survey, among all communities and caste groups, financial constraints and gender bias dominate over other factors in determining levels of education. Indeed, in those regions where Muslims are better off (as in the south and to a lesser extent in the west), Muslim women also have higher levels of education." ( One of the identifiable characteristics of the Scoundrels is the pliablilty of their arguments to suit the need of the moment. On one hand, the Scoundrels want me to know that "where Muslims are better off (as in the south and to a lesser extent in the west), Muslim women also have higher levels of education", thus implying that the religion has nothing to do with it. On the other hand, the Scoundrels want me to agree to the Islamist Quota in AP (' Andhra Pradesh') which is in the south of India and where the Scoundrels allege "Muslims are better off". Damn you, Scoundrels, damn you ! ) 16. " The role of the govt is to maximize social welfare and them giving preferences to any backwards classes in an environment where EQUAL OPPORTUNITY is a long term project is not all that bad." 17. " in Toronto (Canada) they have proposed a law enabling homosexuals who account for 10% of the population of the city to be proportionally represented in the municipal sector, " ( In 1967, Pierre Elliott Trudeau, the then-Canadian Minister of Justice, eliminated Canada's sodomy laws and, famously, said "The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation." http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/25548.html His quote is supposed to imply that the Government of Canada had no business going into the bedrooms of the Canadian people to determine whether they were homosexuals in order to prosecute them. However, we are now told, by implication, that in the City of Toronto in Canada, the municipal government must go into the bedrooms of the people of Toronto, to verify whether they are homosexuals so they could be rewarded with the Homosexual job Quota. How otherwise, pray tell, would the municipal government know that the Scoundrels claiming to be homosexuals to qualify for the Homosexual Job Quota were not lying unless they could perform sodomy in front of the Government job interviewers? Ask the Indian Fools. They know the answer. ) 18. " this Muslim 5% quota thing is a temporary rule that will beassimilated into the wider poverty aleviation programme in the next five year plan." ( Vide: My previous reference to the Caste-ist Quotas implemented (in 1947). I repeat. The Indian Fools and Scoundrels are such a superior breed. They never lose their optimism to dupe the masses. ) 19. "45% of Muslims live below the poverty line compared to the national (2005) average of 20% as per the CSO. This is primarily due to the following and I am copying the much older 1991 CSO report (i happen to have a few pages lying around) on minorities which is unpublished. " "Muslims are predominantly in the handicraft sector as skilled artisans. A countrywide survey, which covered 31 districts, 12 States, indicates that out of 12.68 lakh artisans employed in this Sector, 51.89 per cent were Muslims." ( Remember this point when I draw your attention to it in my next post) 20. "Certainly the private sector has the right to hire by merit but the Govt has a responsability fo social welfare maximization and there is nothing communist about that." ( If you have managed to keep your ears perked up so far, you would know this statement to be a damnable, palpable lie. Just ask me for the 10,000 or so recent links to prove that determined organized attempts are being made this very moment to take this very right away from the Indian private sector. ) 21. "India is not Pakistan nor Bangladesh, our country has a place for a vibrant Muslim minority and we should not be shy when it comes to their present condition nor should we shy away from working out a more permanent long term solution." ... " The quota system is nowhere near perfect but in the short term it helps and is easy to implement." 22. " Statistically Muslims tend to earn less than other groups and there are various socio economic reasons for this beyound the simple Muslim men dont let women get educated and work burka types..... A developing secular and dynamic India must look at this but implement stop gap measures in between." 23."You seem to live in a utopian world where you culd possibly execute 5% quotas for Muslim women alone etc etc etc, India is not a utopia." ( We are supposed to believe that the Islamist Quotas for the Muslims are easy to implement because Muslims are easy to spot. However Islamist Quotas for the Muslim women only, are so hard because the Muslim women look like Muslim men and cannot be distinguished. Therefore the Quota for them alone will require Utopia. ) 24. "The aim of the AP rule is to help a very backward community out that faces multi domentional reasons for their economic condition." ( Please keep your eyes on the cards as they are shuffled underhandedly by the Scoundrels. . Please note that the incompetent progeny of a Muslim Judge of AP (Andhra Pradesh) High Court will not be disqualified from this Islamist Quota. As a matter of fact, this incompetent progeny of a Muslim Judge of Andhra Pradesh High Court will compete, without any qualms, with the eternally helpless poor Muslim artisans, to fill up the Islamist Quota and win. And the Fools & the Scoundrels will keep coming for more in perpetuity asking, nay demanding, from the Dupes for the sake of the eternally helpless poor Muslim artisans.) 25. "The rule will eventually diverge from race, colour and religion and move into pure income only requirements, this is the first step." ( Sixty years, and almost two lost generations, of recent Indian history of Caste-ist Quotas teaches me that this statement is a damnable, palpable lie. ) 26. "In India’s history, merit based systems have not operated in the best way." ( Try telling this to the proud graduates of the Indian Institute of Technology, the very Institution the Fools and the Scoundrels are determined to corrupt with their damnable Quotas. ) 27. "Muslims are predominantly poor in India because of the jobs that they have, mostof them work as skilled artisans and in other areas of the UNORGANIZED manufacturing sector where wages are low, low literacy rates because of inadequate public schooling etc etc etc" ( Remember this point when I draw your attention to it in my next post) 28. "It is obvious to any Indian that getting jobs in the public sector beyond the entrance exams are based on a multitude of factors beyound just merit, patronage and connections playing key roles, especially for higher classes x and above jobs..." ( And the proud traditions of the Indian Administrative Service, Indian Foreign Service & Indian Police Service stand untruthfully and unjustly maligned. Shame! Shame!! ) 29. "Now I have no problem with someone arguing that the quota may make the fate of such people worse, actually there is an econometric study which shows a weak indication for that" ( But let us sneak in the Quotas in the mean time any way. What better time to destroy India's prospect of ever becoming a Civic Nationalism ?! ) 30. "It does point that if the govt is t (sic) help looking at the socio economic background rather than cast for eg is a better. This will happen by 2015 if plans go on schedule." ( I have just as much faith in the promises of the Fools & the Scoundrels as I have in their honour and fairness. ) 31. "It may also be possible while not proven and also because only the RSS tend to claim it.. that another source of Muslim poverty in India is the large pool of Bengladeshi illegals in the country. Certainly i can proove that in one piticular slum in Mumbai where our Netas have befriended them for vote baking (sic) purposes." ( Of course, the solution is obvious. Islamist Quota Zindabad ! ) Now let us be entrepreneurial. Let us use this secret Indian knowledge to justify Islamist Quotas in other countries. Let us go "Business Process Outsourcing". Let us get the Indian Fools & Scoundrels to earn their keep for a change by selling their skills to other countries. Here is a problem, like the topic of this thread, just waiting to be solved: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060515/...NlYwNtdm5ld3M- Study Tracks Plight of English Muslims Sun May 14, (2006) 9:34 PM ET LONDON - Muslims are more likely than other religious minorities to be unemployed and live in poor housing in the most deprived parts of England, according to a government study Monday. Half of English Muslims over the age of 25 are not involved in the formal labor market and a third live in the most deprived areas of the country, according to the study commissioned by the government. Muslims are also particularly vulnerable to long-term illness and experience poor levels of education, said the researchers from the universities of Derby, Warwick, Birmingham and Oxford. "Taking the Muslim population as a whole, they face some of the most acute conditions of multiple deprivation," the report said. The report said members of the Muslim, Sikh and Hindu communities were likely to remain concentrated in the same areas because families want to stay close together and many prefer to live near their places of worship. A government spokeswoman said the academics had reviewed a variety of data, including information from the 2001 national census. The government will use the study in its work to encourage equal opportunities for members of all religious communities, the spokeswoman said. Sir Iqbal Sacranie, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said the research showed the poverty and other deep-seated problems that have contributed to the marginalization and disaffection felt among many young Muslims. "We hope that this report serves to highlight the need to develop policies that are able reach into these communities and fulfill their needs," Sacranie said. The solution for this Islamist problem should be as clear to everyone in United Kingdom as it is to every Indian Fool & Scoundrel in Andhra Pradesh. Let us use Islamist Quotas in England as a solution for the problems of Londonistan & Subway bombings. After all, the Indian Fools & Scoundrels have already solved the problems of Delhi & Varanasi bombings by promising Islamist Quotas. Let us start with the public sector in England. The Queen's palace looks good. Rule Britannia ! Allahu Akbar !! P.S.: Just Browsing; Pardon me again for my rude intrusion. You may now recontinue with your discourse. Inshallah, in the next post, I'll teach you how to use the Islamist Quotas in EP (England Pradesh). Last edited by Advocate : 05-19-2006 at 13:39 PM.

11-07-2005, 09:13 AM	#61 (permalink)
Hari_Om Banished Join Date: 09-30-04 Posts: 1,049 Country:	The reservation is a nonstarter: HC quashes reservation ordinance for Muslims As a footnote the Andhra Pradesh High Court is headed by acting Chief Justice Bilal Nazki, a Kashmiri Muslim. His biography is here.

11-07-2005, 09:18 AM	#62 (permalink)
Samudra *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 09-01-04 Location: North London Posts: 4,356 Country:	Hari, Thanks for that post. Esp for making a mention about Bilal Nazki.

01-25-2006, 04:46 AM	#66 (permalink)
Advocate Banished Join Date: 10-18-05 Posts: 16	JustBrowsing: A wise person may be averse to letting his opinions be modulated by common sense, logiic & facts. But not for long.

02-21-2006, 03:08 AM	#68 (permalink)
Advocate Banished Join Date: 10-18-05 Posts: 16	JustBrowsing, The year 2006 marks the 100th anniversary of a seminal event in the sad history of institutionalized Islamist bigotry in India & the Indian sub-continent. The sorry event occurred on October 1, 1906. The laudatory tones of some of the opening posts, in support of the Islamist premise of this thread, is a logical and natural outcome of that historical event. To describe & analyse the longlasting effects of that event & to clarify the fundamentally deceptive arguments being made in some of the posts in this thread, I'll use two devices commonly used in humanities & technology. 'Nomenclaturization' & 'State Space Transformation'. More to follow this weekend.

02-21-2006, 03:10 AM	#69 (permalink)
Karna Banished Join Date: 02-10-06 Posts: 128	Quotas are stupid.

03-20-2006, 07:53 AM	#70 (permalink)
Just Browsing Banished Join Date: 10-10-05 Posts: 22	Advocateji, Perhaps you have dozed off. Time to get to work. I am patiently curious about how you'll explain the techniques of "Nomenclaturization" & "State Space Transformation" which you want to use, to make your objections to the "Islamist Quota System" easier to understand and accept, WITHOUT getting yourself far far away from the topic of this Thread. I know that proper "Nomenclaturization" does make concepts easier to understand. I'll give an example later. On the other hand, improper "Nomenclaturization" muddles the mind. Some devious Scoundrels, with the full co-operation of such muddled-minded Fools, have decided in India that State Sanctioned Institutionalized Religious Bigotry should be the hallmark of an Indian brand of "Secularism" and rewarded with Job Quotas. These Scoundrels, with the co-opted Fools, try to sell their bigotry to the masses under an improperly defined "Secularism". This is an example of improper "Nomenclaturization" to swindle the "Deserving" to the benefit of the "Bigots". Secularism means that the State should have no business asking what someone's religion is. In all advanced Secular countries, the interviewer is penalized by anti-discrimination laws if the interviewer asks the interviewee during a job interview what the interviewee's religion is. In India, it is EXPECTED that, for a public service job, the interviewee MUST CLAIM what the interviewee's caste and, soon in the future after the implementation of the Islamist Quota, what the interviewee's religion are so that the interviewee may unjustly enrich oneself at the cost of others. The Fools & the Scoundrels will have us believe that this is NECESSARY for the survival of Secularism in India. Perhaps, like you, I don't fall, for a moment, for the subterfuge of one of the Posts above where I am assured that the Supreme Court will prevent the Islamist Quota from gaining a foothold in India. That is a big lie. Such an 'Islamist Quota' already exists in Karnataka, a province next door. I, also, do not fall for the other rationalizations advanced for the necessity of the 'Islamist Quotas'. Because rationalizations for the 'Islamist Quotas' have existed in India for centuries. During the medieval 'Islamist domination', these 'Islamist Quotas' were justified because the 'Islamists' are a deserving & superior breed and the undeserving 'Infidels' had it coming to them. During the early 20th century, before the Indian Independence --- and, I may be stealing your thunder by saying this -- the 'Islamist Bigot' of the day, the then Aga Khan, was justifying these 'Islamist Quotas' because the 'Islamists' were deserving of such Quotas due to their numbers & their friendly attitude towards the British occupiers. The Indian Census of 1910 was specifically designed to address this after an Islamist delegation met Minto. The whole reason behind the formation of Pakistan was to ensure that, otherwise, the 'Islamist' would not get their proportionate fair share of the societal goods from the evil Hindoos. Now about 60 years after the formation of the Islamist Republic of Pakistan, we are offered some other rationalization by the Scoundrels and the Fools to continue the Islamist privileges. While you deal with the "micro-loans from the banks" offered as solutions for the "Islamist Bigotry", as these loans have "solved"(?) this problem in Bangladesh, let me move on to help you with another matter. I'll give an example, if I may, of how " proper Nomenclaturization" can make it easier to advance a concept. Centuries ago, in a time and a place, an arithmetical number such as 'forty' would be represented by the term 'XL' and another number such as 'eighty', by 'LXXX'. With this "Nomenclature", it was very difficult to see that 'LXXX' was double of 'XL'. A new "Nomenclature" was devised to represent 'forty' by '40' & 'eighty' by '80'. And suddenly, it was very easy to see that '80' was double of '40'. Good luck to you with your new "Nomenclaturization" & "State Space Transformation" to explain the evil of Islamist Quotas'. In closing, may I add that Nehru knew that India's road to Hell was paved with "Islamist Quotas". http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...d~for~votes%27 "The Constituent Assembly had a sub-committee which was headed by Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel and Pandit Nehru and Dr Ambedkar were its members. What the first draft discussed was reservation for religious minorities. Pandit Nehru opposed it saying it would lead to isolation." Sixty years later, the march toward 'Religious Bigotry' carries on under the banner of 'Secularism'. Only in India.

03-20-2006, 12:17 PM	#72 (permalink)
Karthik Seeker of Rivendell *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-15-04 Posts: 1,569 Country:	Just browsing, I live Bangalore, and I think I know what you mean. In my own class, there are three Muslims. All three of them got into engineering through a quota earmarked only for Muslims. There are those of us in our class who have sacrificied two years of our teenage lives to work hard and get into an engineering college of good repute. I feel outraged that some people get in through mere quotas without putting in hard work. During theory hours or laboratory sessions on Fridays, these three blokes get special permission to leave the class for their Namaz. Sometimes, they ask for a leave during wierd hours like noon or early afternoon. No proffesor can do anything about it, and the othes in the class cant help but roll their eyes in utter frustration. They call this secularism. Secularism, my hat ! I have never heard of such asinine stupidity.