Invasion and illegal annexation of Tibet: 1949-1951 - Page 4

hx37 · 04-02-2008, 20:23 PM

On the map question, I actually did some searching. Couldn't find any British maps, but I did find one printed in 1914 by Rand McNally&Co, an American company:
Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0148.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I believe this is printed just after Dalai announced Tibetan independence.
Also relevant is the 1922 Times World atlas, on pg 17-18, on David Rumsey's Site
This is the recognized political map at the time, 8 years after Tibet announced its independence. As can be clearly seen, it's still lumped with China. Note: I actually think this one is British, is Bartholomew and J.G. a British company?
As for international recognition of Tibet at the time, as stated in A History of Tibet by Alex McKay - Tibet enjoyed de facto independent recognition and full independent state treatment. So, according to this book (which had quite a lot of relevant primary sources,) Tibet was never OFFICIALLY recognized by the League of Nations. The Brits wanted to, but China and Russia kept getting in the way. So technically the modern state of Tibet was never officially recognized, I searched and could not find ONE nation that publicly acknowledged its existence.

Tangyiying · 04-02-2008, 22:10 PM

Quote:

Too bad that it has been revived. I am sure it was there all along.

Biting the hand that feeds?

Sad.

You are where you are because of the West and you abuse them!!

Now, you are insulting the whole China. I dunnt see how China lives its presence and future at the mercy of the WEST LORDs. I do see the wounds those West Lords left on her reminding us never ever forget the humiliating age when CHina was weak.

Quote:

It is not a wish, it is a reality and a policy espoused by both the Chinese and the Indian governments to/with differing degrees. CREF their various policies since 1970s that fundamentally shift the paradigm from quantity to quality (family planning, education, investment etc.). Nationalism is a different issue, and hardly as fundamental as the issues that were present in the 1950s and 1960s, which is what you seemed to put up in the post I first quoted.

Hi, Cactus. nice say, I should agree most with your thoughts. Both sides have found common interests and the tension between them gets mitigated. I wish the ancient civilizations could be revived and values be respected. But things could turn the other way around when political climate changes. The good wish of common people may never come true in this realistic world.

Quote:

So technically the modern state of Tibet was never officially recognized, I searched and could not find ONE nation that publicly acknowledged its existence.

The ROC government was engaging in the civil war and the war against Imperial Japanese army, it did not give much attention to the self ruled regime of Tibet. It actually recognised the Tibet regime as an autonomous region.

It might be news to most people here that the 13 Dalai Lama in his late age advocated national unification and actively participated in the anti-japanese rallies. He died a patriot. And his successor, the 14 Dalai Lama, the late Nobel Prize winner, was recognized his reincarnation under the supervision of the ROC.

**Officer of Engineers** · 04-03-2008, 00:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tangyiying

Now, you are insulting the whole China. I dunnt see how China lives its presence and future at the mercy of the WEST LORDs. I do see the wounds those West Lords left on her reminding us never ever forget the humiliating age when CHina was weak.

So you want to refight your Grandfathers' war.

Ray · 04-03-2008, 01:46 AM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tangyiying

Now, you are insulting the whole China. I dunnt see how China lives its presence and future at the mercy of the WEST LORDs. I do see the wounds those West Lords left on her reminding us never ever forget the humiliating age when CHina was weak.

How is it insulting China. If you call bastard west, you are insulting the West. Does the West bother what you have to state? No.

But see the tolerance level. Does the Forum ban you for insulting their nations? Does anyone call you a splittist? Does any put you in a re-education labour camp? No.

So, what does the West do to such slurs? They make you eat your hat by pointing out the follies of calling them so. They tell you that you are being ungrateful since your economy and progress is largely west dependant on their technology, legally and illegally obtained, their companies and their technology and so on!

That obviously is no insult. It is the fact. But then, you are not used to facing unpleasant facts of life.

I understand.

The West Lords left some very interesting things to us in India. We are grateful as anyone decent person should be. We do not brush it under the carpet and then spin yarns. Another great thing of India you will not realise, that while we are equally proud of our heritage and culture, we are also a people who assimilate the good that others have given us.

We have no blind patriotism.

We possibly are the true followers of Mao's philosophy and let a 1000 flowers bloom!

Quote:

Hi, Cactus. nice say, I should agree most with your thoughts. Both sides have found common interests and the tension between them gets mitigated. I wish the ancient civilizations could be revived and values be respected. But things could turn the other way around when political climate changes. The good wish of common people may never come true in this realistic world.

One should borrow from the past, but cannot live in the past!

Quote:

The ROC government was engaging in the civil war and the war against Imperial Japanese army, it did not give much attention to the self ruled regime of Tibet. It actually recognised the Tibet regime as an autonomous region.

Rather lame.

How does it concern the world why 'internal matters of China' should be considered to recognise the ground position as it was?

Quote:

It might be news to most people here that the 13 Dalai Lama in his late age advocated national unification and actively participated in the anti-japanese rallies. He died a patriot. And his successor, the 14 Dalai Lama, the late Nobel Prize winner, was recognized his reincarnation under the supervision of the ROC.

Indeed it is news.

Because it is from you!

India and the world also recognised the 14th Dalai Lama. So?

Tangyiying · 04-03-2008, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Indeed it is news.

Because it is from you!

India and the world also recognised the 14th Dalai Lama. So?

I think you should take a look at the maps from which hx37 has posted the link. It might be a news to you, but your assumption that it is a news to the world is merely ignorant.

I m really disappointed as you never take on any serious discussion. It remains bickering. So sad. Have you raised some solid evidences to rebut my ground? NONE. all pitfull rhetoric.

Quote:

We have no blind patriotism.

that 's amazing.

Quote:

How is it insulting China. If you call bastard west, you are insulting the West. Does the West bother what you have to state? No.

Yes, I called the West bastard. This is a response to their accusation of my government evil. I admit I was emotional but I dunnt see why I should be banned while they arent.

Quote:

It is the fact.

no it isn't a fact. If you want a real debate in scholar fashion, go and start another thread on this specific topic. I would be glad to be there.

Quote:

So you want to refight your Grandfathers' war.

No, i dunnt see which country wants a war with China currently. The past reminds us that the peace and proud are achieved by the strength. Being united and stronger if you do not want to be bullied. This is a legacy. Because the Confucius influenced Chinese are leaning to believe in GONGDAO That's not what the world runs.

Deltacamelately · 04-03-2008, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tangyiying

I actually very much hope this could be done. and that gives China all reasons to revenge. And, I hope they boycotted the Olympics successfully, the increasing anti-west sentiment within China would be boiling, the PRC should do what it feels right to do. The current government is too mild and does koutou to the West bastards. It should shows its backbones and to reach its own hegemony.

I m even bothered to give you a link of maps which a google search could do all the way for u.

Really?

What is in the eyes of Indian regime is in their eyes, it does not make its crushdown on Maoist freedom fighters justified.

Do you think this kinda bickering interesting?

I understand Indians are keen on seeing Tibet be an independent country. They want a buffer state between them and China. And, most importantly, should their treaty with the illegal Tibet regime be invalid, their claims over the stolen lands south to the imfamous McMahon Line will go up to the smoke. I could understand you, Ray has all pro-Tibet in exile posts there. I m just bored with the bickering. I am a bit surprised such bickering is not suspended by the mods. THe forum I used to be imposes much stricter rules. Anyway, I feel more freedom and I m gonna to loving arguing with ppls here.

Howdy Buddy!
Indians are not just keen on seeing Tibet as an independent country. Indians FEEL and FEEL Strongly that Tibet SHOULD HAVE BEEN an independent country. We have been invaded and we have lived under foreign occupation, therefore we FEEL what the Tibetans must be feeling.

Adux · 04-03-2008, 07:43 AM

Major,

Amen

Adu

FullTank · 04-05-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deltacamelately

Howdy Buddy!
Indians are not just keen on seeing Tibet as an independent country. Indians FEEL and FEEL Strongly that Tibet SHOULD HAVE BEEN an independent country. We have been invaded and we have lived under foreign occupation, therefore we FEEL what the Tibetans must be feeling.

And we are also extremely efficient at electing governments that think otherwise. One heck of a way to implement our feelings. Hypocrisy or what?

Jigong · 04-06-2008, 12:56 PM

Some of the people in this discussion seem to think that this world should be further divided into several hundred "nations'! Is India going to divide into Punjab, Tamil Naidu, West Bengal, Kashmir, etc.? Is Britain going to divide into Scotland, England, Wales, North Ireland? Is Canada going to be divided into Quebac, etc? Is Spain going to be divided into Basque, etc.? Is Israel going to be divided into the Jewish nation and the Muslim Nation? etc etc. Very funny!

Based on all the arguments, Tibet itself should be divided into many smaller parts according to the tribes and religions! And the whole of China should be divided into at least 56 separate nations! Funny!

Based on all these arguments, there should be a Third World War to redistribute land into new nations all over the world!

Ray · 04-06-2008, 13:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jigong

Some of the people in this discussion seem to think that this world should be further divided into several hundred "nations'! Is India going to divide into Punjab, Tamil Naidu, West Bengal, Kashmir, etc.? Is Britain going to divide into Scotland, England, Wales, North Ireland? Is Canada going to be divided into Quebac, etc? Is Spain going to be divided into Basque, etc.? Is Israel going to be divided into the Jewish nation and the Muslim Nation? etc etc. Very funny!

Based on all the arguments, Tibet itself should be divided into many smaller parts according to the tribes and religions! And the whole of China should be divided into at least 56 separate nations! Funny!

Based on all these arguments, there should be a Third World War to redistribute land into new nations all over the world!

There is a little point of detail you missed out.

It is not division of States of a country,

It is the annexation of a country by invasion!!

Skywatcher · 04-06-2008, 13:54 PM

Incidentally, does anyone believe in the oil deposits to be found in Tibet/historic Tibet?

And how much in the way of mineral reserves are there?

Ray · 04-06-2008, 15:02 PM

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tangyiying

I think you should take a look at the maps from which hx37 has posted the link. It might be a news to you, but your assumption that it is a news to the world is merely ignorant.

I m really disappointed as you never take on any serious discussion. It remains bickering. So sad. Have you raised some solid evidences to rebut my ground? NONE. all pitfull rhetoric

.

Isn't it amazing that you have not shown any Solid evidence as you claim?

The fact that I don't agree with you is causing you a heart burn?

I am sorry, I have an independent mind that has not been programmed unlike some!

Quote:

that 's amazing.

What is so amazing that one does not go by what the govt wants us to do?

Is the freedom of choice an amazing phenomenon?

Not to us, maybe to you!

Quote:

Yes, I called the West bastard. This is a response to their accusation of my government evil. I admit I was emotional but I dunnt see why I should be banned while they arent.

You parroted your Party's line. Nothing usual in Communists abusing the US. A ritual of loyalty that will win you brownie points.

You could say so and get away because you knew fully well that this was a western forum which has the tolerance that you do not enjoy in China.

That is why you abused.

If it had been in China and you called Hu a bastard, you would have been in chains and locked up and not had the liberty to use your computer!!

n

Quote:

o it isn't a fact. If you want a real debate in scholar fashion, go and start another thread on this specific topic. I would be glad to be there.

Scholarly?

Give me another one!

Indirect Fire · 04-06-2008, 18:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jigong

Based on all the arguments, Tibet itself should be divided into many smaller parts according to the tribes and religions! And the whole of China should be divided into at least 56 separate nations! Funny!

Yes, very funny! Don't forget Imperialism and Forceful Annexation of Tibet China! Hahahaha

rj1 · 04-06-2008, 20:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

There is a little point of detail you missed out.

It is not division of States of a country,

It is the annexation of a country by invasion!!

Which has been how most all countries enlarge their borders since Antiquity.

Jigong · 04-07-2008, 21:49 PM

Ray wrote:
"There is a little point of detail you missed out.

It is not division of States of a country,

It is the annexation of a country by invasion!!"

Jigong's reply:
I search through historical records, including those of 'The Leagues of Nations' and the 'United Nations', I couldn't find any nation with the name of Tibet! Sorry Ray, There was not such nation called 'Tibet' in the las 200 years or so, as far as world recognition is concerned. So what do you mean by 'annexation of a country'? Which 'country'?

04-07-2008, 21:49 PM	#60 (permalink)
Jigong Banished Regular Join Date: 04-06-08 Posts: 39	Ray wrote: "There is a little point of detail you missed out. It is not division of States of a country, It is the annexation of a country by invasion!!" Jigong's reply: I search through historical records, including those of 'The Leagues of Nations' and the 'United Nations', I couldn't find any nation with the name of Tibet! Sorry Ray, There was not such nation called 'Tibet' in the las 200 years or so, as far as world recognition is concerned. So what do you mean by 'annexation of a country'? Which 'country'? Last edited by Jigong : 04-07-2008 at 21:51 PM.

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04-02-2008, 20:23 PM	#46 (permalink)
hx37 Regular Join Date: 04-02-08 Posts: 48	On the map question, I actually did some searching. Couldn't find any British maps, but I did find one printed in 1914 by Rand McNally&Co, an American company: Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0148.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I believe this is printed just after Dalai announced Tibetan independence. Also relevant is the 1922 Times World atlas, on pg 17-18, on David Rumsey's Site This is the recognized political map at the time, 8 years after Tibet announced its independence. As can be clearly seen, it's still lumped with China. Note: I actually think this one is British, is Bartholomew and J.G. a British company? As for international recognition of Tibet at the time, as stated in A History of Tibet by Alex McKay - Tibet enjoyed de facto independent recognition and full independent state treatment. So, according to this book (which had quite a lot of relevant primary sources,) Tibet was never OFFICIALLY recognized by the League of Nations. The Brits wanted to, but China and Russia kept getting in the way. So technically the modern state of Tibet was never officially recognized, I searched and could not find ONE nation that publicly acknowledged its existence.

04-03-2008, 07:43 AM	#52 (permalink)
Adux Banished Join Date: 07-29-05 Location: Cochin Posts: 2,931 Country:	Major, Amen Adu

04-06-2008, 12:56 PM	#54 (permalink)
Jigong Banished Regular Join Date: 04-06-08 Posts: 39	Some of the people in this discussion seem to think that this world should be further divided into several hundred "nations'! Is India going to divide into Punjab, Tamil Naidu, West Bengal, Kashmir, etc.? Is Britain going to divide into Scotland, England, Wales, North Ireland? Is Canada going to be divided into Quebac, etc? Is Spain going to be divided into Basque, etc.? Is Israel going to be divided into the Jewish nation and the Muslim Nation? etc etc. Very funny! Based on all the arguments, Tibet itself should be divided into many smaller parts according to the tribes and religions! And the whole of China should be divided into at least 56 separate nations! Funny! Based on all these arguments, there should be a Third World War to redistribute land into new nations all over the world!

04-06-2008, 13:54 PM	#56 (permalink)
Skywatcher Patron Join Date: 03-14-08 Posts: 244	Incidentally, does anyone believe in the oil deposits to be found in Tibet/historic Tibet? And how much in the way of mineral reserves are there?

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