Ray

I hope my light hearted statements in the previous post is not taken amiss by you!

I don't care for the Chinese or Indians or for that matter anyone. Not that I dislike them either. I do, however, care for looking at issues on its merits.

I find the brouhaha over the Flame very misplaced. I also find the Tibet issue is something that some seriousness be given to, since it is ruining relationships between countries.

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Ray

I find that you repeatedly give rather juvenile statements.

Of course, you will take the lame excuse that the Chinese don't know the language or that the Chinese cultural tradition insists that one does not speak much if one does not know and other such pious homily etc.

Do give us something worthwhile for a change so that we can discuss.

Be advised that the West is not stupid to outsource State secrets! Or do you think that they are stupid?

xunil

No, After reading your article, it reminded me the report about an Indian sold B-2 document to China and Israel. I just wondering maybe China and Israel were outsourcing spying work to Indian.

Ray

First of all, let’s be clear – are we talking about Mainland Chinese or the Chinese Diaspora?

I am talking about both and I find that you are doing so too. Though at times the lines blur.

When I wrote ‘compare the Chinese response to the Tibet violence or the silly Olympic Torch. The Tibetans maybe not be totally innocent’ I meant the Diaspora as also the Mainland Chinese.

I have given you why I feel Legalism still lives in China, please address that and show why it should not be so.

I find your defence of no Chinese posters condemning the excessive use of force to curb the Tibetan rebellion is because economic freebies given by the Chinese is justifiable is most worrisome. Are you sure that money can buy everything? I thought as per the advertisement it was Visa card which did that!!!

While you Chinese talk about humiliation heaped on you by history to justify issues and talk of your Glorious heritage and civilization, how do you justify denying the Tibetan their glorious history and civilization and their religious ways?

Serfdom was their way of life. It is not right. But what makes you feel that Dalai Lama would, in this modern world and with such world support, would dare return to serfdom? It is just that China is afraid that he would lead a movement to break up the historically annexed territory from China.

Sadly, the Chinese Communist propaganda that the Tibetans are happy now that they have been made Godless is totally false. If they were happy (95% as per you), why is there this constant exodus from Tibet. Is it that it is a way to ensure ethnic cleansing in a polite way?

I think you Chinese are suffering from a self deceit that the world is worried about your ascendancy. No, they are not. They are worried about your sharp economic practices which is giving you an unfair advantage (Shek and Top Hatter may fill you in on this, they being the experts on the subject).

I don’t buy your theory on Legalism is the root cause for Chinese apathy to the Tibetan issue. One the one hand, you feel that it does not exist and yet when it is convenient, you say it exists!

That apart, your contention that there would be uproar if similar policies were adopted to Hans is also incorrect. Worse conditions and treatment was meted out to the Hans during the Three Natural Disasters, Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. The Hans of China meekly stepped in line. So, this too is a fallacious argument.

I also do not believe that the new found materialism amongst Hans has de-humanised the Hans and they are not aware of their surroundings and instead are only interested in their brand of clothing, car, the size of their house et al. You do injustice to the Hans. The actual truth is that it is the Han imperialism mindset that history has bequeathed them whereby they forget others also exist within the Republic of China!

There are Hans in this very forum who are most concerned about the poor and so the Hans are not de-humanised and chasing the materialist Holy Grail as you wish to portray!

I personally feel that Hans are a good people but Legalism rules their mind!

Likewise, every race, including Indians, have cultural flaws. It is just that one has to recognise them and change!

For instance, only Brahmins could be priest amongst the Hindus. It is today's news that the Scheduled Castes too, who have been taught the holy rites, are to be priests. Unthinkable at one time, is a reality today!!

A great victory for India and its culture.

Ray

First of all, it is not my article.

Please get that right.

What is this B2 document?

You don't have to wonder about outsourcing.

You are a wonder yourself of incoherence!

xunil

I'm really worry about the security of Western countries. There are so many Indians in those countries and willing to sold the secret they get, to any countries.

Ray

Look this is a serious inter exchange of ideas and I am learning much.

Could we be spared your juvenile interjections or are you the comic relief as they have in films? Jerry Lewis, Laurel and Hardy or simply Mukri?

If you are that worried about West's Secret, please apply for the CIA.

That will bring peace to your mind and keep you constructively employed, even against your own country!

I am glad that Capitalism has changed your mindset and you are ready to spy for the West.

Does show the power of Capitalism, what ho?

Thank you!

dave lukins

Xunil Zhe shi shenme lan dougxi? Don't make accusations unless you are willing to back them up. Post the links. You are not on the WAB to throw erroneous statements around.

xunil

Ok, sorry for my incoherence.
American Chronicle | Man Faces Death Penalty for Selling Defense Secrets

Pakistan sets date to hang Indian spy - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

dave lukins

This is one(who has not been found guilty)....please send the rest of the many

Ray

Xuil,

'Gowadia, an Indian-born engineer'.

Please note Indian born, It means he is a US citizen and not 'outsourced'.



Here are just two examples of a Chinese:

The case against Dongfan "Greg" Chung, 72, involves "the theft of important trade secrets on behalf of the People's Republic of China," said Tom O'Brien, the U.S. attorney in Los Angeles.
OC Man Accused Of Selling Secrets To China Released On Bond - News Story - KNBC | Los Angeles

The US justice department charged Chinese-born Dongfan Chung with 8 counts of economic espionage, conspiracy, and making false statements to FBI investigators.
Spies Caught Selling Shuttle Secrets to the Chinese | Universe Today

Want some more so as to scuttle the thread, which is your aim?

It is time that you learn that we are not docile and mind beaten Communist Chinese who are thrilled to the gills with disinformation and propaganda where one becomes many and when Chinese do it, it is their 'patriotic duty' for the "Glory of the Chinese Toiling Peasants" etc!

Here it is three Chinese:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Defense Department weapons system analyst and three Chinese nationals have been arrested and charged in two espionage-related cases, prompting a top Justice Department official Monday to declare Chinese espionage is approaching "Cold War levels."
Feds: U.S. defense analyst leaked secrets to China - CNN.com

Stop playing the goat!

Ray

Xuil,

Do stop cluttering this thread with Human faeces.

Please come up with intelligent debates if you are capable of intelligence!

xunil

Have I denied that China had spy in US ? Even US's best ally Israel have spy in US too. India also have spy in other countries.

Adux

Xunil,

Get yourself registered in pakistandefenceforum.com ; you seem like an excellent talent, they are looking for people like you. They have an active Chinese sub-fora. With intelligent discussion and without any anti-china bias like this very stupid fora. Take care man, do go.

Adu

Ray

Ah the usual pious crap!

I thought you were worried about the West and yet you now say you spy against the West!

Make up your mind.

So, it shows the typical Communist deceit and when discovered the typical pious weaselling that is unmatchable and beneath contempt!!

You chaps know how to make yourself the laughing stock of the world!

But you are so thick skinned (most the peasants) that you don't understand!

You are turning out to be an embarrassment to the Mainland Chinese and much that I have no cudgels with them, you are getting my goat proving that I am wrong in my belief that the Mainland Chinese are an intelligent lot!

I don't believe that they could have mortgaged their mind and soul to the CCP and are but stooges for propaganda and spreading half truth as the Gospel!

I respect the Chinese as the Colonel knows and I know that they are not stupid.

Are you the exception?