Ray

I love you Red Chinese.

You can metaphorically change night into day and day into night.

The post I am quoting remind me of the words of a song:

Tera Khoon, Khoon
Mera Knoon, pani?
Tera gam, gam,
Mera gam, Kahani?


Translated it means:

Your blood is blood
And my blood is water?
Your sorrow is sorrow,
And my sorrow is a fable?

Thus, the protest of the World is horse puckey.

And your protest are no big deal; only a majority of good Chinese who never mean what they say? Indeed, I believe it that Chinese do not know what they do and do it just because the State desires it so!! As orchestrated without understanding as the performing monkeys of an organ grinder!!

Having served in the Army for long, I appreciate the Han spirit of standing as one, thanks to the concept of Legalism that broke the individual will and spirit and "trained" it to kowtow to the Emperor so much so it became a subconscious reaction.

Yet my heart somehow makes me feel sorry for you all and your history which can make human beings into Pavlovian dogs with conditioned reflexes.

I am sure there are Hans who do not behave so and nor do they come out in a public forum to show loyalty as desired by the captive mind conditioned by Legalism.

This unified jingoism and xenophobia is scary.

It makes me believe that the fictional story of George Orwell '1984' can be achieved wherein

Beasts of every land and clime,
Hearken well and spread my tidings
Of the golden future time

I cannot believe that human being can so de-humanised to sell their mind and soul to the State!

Such Xenophobia that can arouse the basest of national pride that rides roughshod over one's own capability to discern and think on his own and decide on issue is to my mind dangerous not only to the people whose minds are re-engineered so, but also to the world.

The last time that it happened was in Hitler's Germany and to such people who follow his ideals to be xenophobic, I presume Hitler was an honourable man as also Shan Yang's and Li Si who conceptualised the concept of Legalism to be followed by the successors including Mao and Hu.

I am sure Musharraf would have not been humiliated as he has been, if the Pakistanis had been conditioned in Legalism wherein they sold their mind and soul to the State.

Likewise, the world, if it did not follow democracy and instead Legalism of China, the Olympic Flame would not have been so badly insulted as it has been wherein it is guarded and isolated in the same way the freedom of man and his mind is guarded and isolated from the reality of life as also from the soaring spirit of man as in Red China!!

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

xunil

It almost 20 years after that night. Many students protested that time, are taking the lead of the country now. I just hope deep in their heart where is a call from their glorious past.

Ray

I, however, commend Underspin for his pragmatic post!

A post from a true patriot and not a Pavlovian conditioned one.

He is a Han who is proud of his identity and yet retains the control of his mind to sift the wheat from the chaff.

UnderSpin

Ray,

I believe you mean well, but beating up people won't change the world.
The Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse showed that human beings can be dehumanized, perhaps just for fun!
The suicide bombers from the Arab Muslim world showed that people are responding to the emotion of humiliation more than their human consciousness.

IMHO, If you want to change the world, make them want to do something right!

xunil

And one thing I think every Chinese should bear in mind. It's not only the CCP's problem, every Chinese are responsible for each China's failure.

Ray

You are right.

Force will not work.

I somehow am of the opinion that being humiliated is self induced.

If you refuse to be humiliated, how can one humiliate you? And if you have nothing to get humiliated, how can you get Humiliated?

But, ofcourse, if you have reasons to feel humiliated and your conscience tell you that there are ground, then humiliation turns to anger and retribution!

Let us analyse the Olympic Torch fiasco.

It is a silly flame, lighted with more with technological marvels than by the rays of the sun, amidst hocus pocus of pagan ritual of which none really are 100% aware and that too by theatre personalities and not by real pagan priestesses!

It was done and is done to add to the exotic, which is excellent for commercialism and its razzle dazzle since everyone seems to be tired of religion and want the exotic!! At least where big Money lies - the West!!

Did it require the Red Chinese govt to cash in on this hocus pocus when they don't believe in religion per se (Karl Marx and religion is the opium of the masses!)?

Red China did it so as to make the whole Olympics a 'Coming out Party' Overdid the razzle dazzle. And because China known that it is not being accepted in the Big League, even with all the credentials to be there, it is going the extra mile to mock the Big League and so their prejudices!! That is the huge problem.

China forgets that China is today the most sought after, because she is the ''unknown wonder''. All love the unknown. That is why we waste money to search the outer space instead of using the huge sums so invested to feed the world or keep our domestic economy from going into recession!!

It is because China has ignored the world inspite of huge criticism and condemnation during Mao's time that it has become an living enigma and it excites. None can understand it and yet they want to know about it!

Therefore, if Hu had some genius of Mao, he would have realised that the Olympic Torch is turning out to be an embarrassment.

What China should have done and without lose face as it has now lost, stood on the moral high horse and called off the World relay and told the nations that it did not want to embarrass the govts of the world with the problems that China has to withstand from the splittists who do not understand the good that China has done and with that churned out the statistics and past history and proved the point.

Instead, because of the Legalism mindset where the State knows best concept, it has soldiered on and brought further disgrace upon itself and alienated the world.

Another thing that China forgot is the face that human memory is short, Does anyone remember what happened when China invaded Tibet and captured it? Hardly. Only tidbits here and there, but not everything and the repressive manner in which it was done.

I have always admired the Chinese as very intelligent people and clever people, but now you are proving you are no better than anyone else and it is an indication that the Communists are heralding the collapse of the Han dynasty!

xunil

Ray, Have you been told that if you want advise, you should ask someone you respect and really cares about you. I think that's why most of the westerners' advise were not appreciated by Chinese.

Ray

Abu Gharaib was bad.

But how did the world know of it?

It it were Tibet, there would be a total curfew of news and only uncorroborated views with come out leading to speculation and debate as is out here.

Instead the Americans (and the Chinese hate US media) wrote reams over it and condemned it and did not brush it under the carpet with pious platitudes and lies.

They took it to the Congress and their legal system and heads rolled and it was in the public forum!

So, the transparency of the US cannot be matched.

Other democratic nations with free media are nearly as good as the US, but not that good.

And as far as China goes, it is not and with a pathetic record of being
"His Master's Voice". In fact, the Chinese media is the pits!

That is what is interesting.

Therefore, before we criticise the US, we must see how free are we compared to the US and then pontificate!!

Ray

Haven't understood.

UnderSpin

Yes, US handling of Abu Gharaib won my deep respect, in case the point was not clear in my original post. I want all Chinese to see that.

Yes, this world has lots of problems, some terribly bad. As an engineer, I was trained to come up with a solution subject to all constraints. So I learned not be emotional when I deal with those problems. They are just constraints to my solution. The world will change. If you have enough solutions, they may in turn change the constraints.

I also have the benefit of seeing Taiwan getting nowhere by challenging those constraints.

UnderSpin

It's sad that CCP has to deflect problems to its people when it is in control.
In the Western society that's called responsibility and accountability. Whichever party is in control will have to take responsibility and accountability. Taiwan's pro-independence party can't solve problems, so it was voted down. It did not blame the voters.
Can CCP be as responsible?

Officer of Engineers

Frankly, if this is the worst of it, I ain't going to lose any sleep. It was within my lifetime that the PRC and the US were in their 2nd shooting war against each other. If they are just going to shout at each other, I'll just get a pair of ear plugs - Made In Canada ones.

__________________
Chimo

Triple C

General,

You just cracked me up!

China would not have been insulted by the rude reception of a little torch, had it not cracked down on Tibet. If the violent suppression of Tibet did not take place the boycotters would have looked utterly ridiculous and narrow-minded.

It is a cheap little trick that the CPP is playing now, to intentionally misinterpret what is an anti-CPP demonstration into a challenge of China's national honor. All that it did is to divert the attention of the Chinese people from doing the hard things that will truly elevate China's reputation.

__________________
What benefits the body is called medicine; what benefits the soul, discipline.
-Augustine of Hippo

Ray

Triple C,

I think the Olympic Game is a big charade to rake in the millions.

Consumerism.

I don't care if it burns or it dies out.

The athletes performance is what I care about!

And that is where if China sweeps the tally, it will make all the difference and not if the Flame burn pink!

Who has the best athletes is the final analysis!!

China is stupid to waste its time and stake its national prestige
over a crappy Flame.

China loves to overdo everything!!

Fiona Shrot

Very pertinent, UnderSpin

I finally saw the "青天白日滿地紅" flag here.
(blue sky, the white sun and red ground)

Is it your first post? Good for it.

__________________
Cinderella was a Chinese.