China-Tibet Threads

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Parihaka

China almost never seems to do things by halves.

It is an interesting superstition that the Chinese have - they never do things in odd numbers.

It has to be 2, 4, 6, 8 and so on.

Or so the Lion Dance leader told me when I was photographing three of them and so he rather rudely pushed away the third chap!!

[xunil]

Originally Posted by Parihaka

The rest of the world was paying attention to China long before China paid attention to them. The mindset simply wasn't there, in just the way the maps showed the rest of the world as minor bits of island around the Middle Kingdom.
Here's a letter sent by Qian Long to George III in 1793



From E. Backhouse and J. O. P. Bland, Annals and Memoirs of the Court of Peking (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1914), pp. 322*331

By the 1840s the British were able to sail into China's rivers and destroy its fleets.

Interesting to read, isn't it.
Actually, China did paid attention to the rest of the world. But after Zheng He, China closed up. For next several hundreds of years, western countries started industry revolution, but China didn't caught up.

[xunil]

Originally Posted by Ray

It is an interesting superstition that the Chinese have - they never do things in odd numbers.

It has to be 2, 4, 6, 8 and so on.

Or so the Lion Dance leader told me when I was photographing three of them and so he rather rudely pushed away the third chap!!

Chinese think even numbers are propitious. But "they never do things in odd numbers", that's not ture. For example, Chinese think 9 is a good number, but 4 is bad, because in Chinese four has the same pronounciation of death. I think the people you photographied must have other reason to do that.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by xunil

Chinese think even numbers are propitious. But "they never do things in odd numbers", that's not ture. For example, Chinese think 9 is a good number, but 4 is bad, because in Chinese four has the same pronounciation of death. I think the people you photographied must have other reason to do that.

Thanks for the information.

I appreciate it.

[pravin]

Iam not able to understand this sudden rise of patriotism by chinese posters
I have been readin this forum since many years but i had never seen these many
posters there used to be hardky one or two.I really doubt whether this board is available in China or not

[ying]

Originally Posted by Parihaka

The rest of the world was paying attention to China long before China paid attention to them. The mindset simply wasn't there, in just the way the maps showed the rest of the world as minor bits of island around the Middle Kingdom.
Here's a letter sent by Qian Long to George III in 1793

Ancient China is the typical earth and agriculture civilization. This may to some extent explain why ancient China had no incentive to know more about the countries in the other sides of oceans.

Firstly, Chinese didn’t confront the threat of ocean countries until the humiliating Opium Wars in 1839–42 and 1856–60. Before Opium Wars, the biggest threat to China was nomads. Actually, the history of ancient China may be read somehow as a history of the wars and conflicts between agriculture and nomadic civilizations. Qin Shi Huang, the first emperor who untied China, built the Great Wall to protect its country from the invasion of nomads. The northern nomad, Man, won the last war in ancient China history by conquering China and establishing the Qing dynasty.

Secondly, it was believed that agriculture is the key to make China prospective and stable and commerce was choked back. The trade with ocean countries never meant a lot to ancient China except bringing luxury goods to emperors and their families.

[bolo121]

Well to be fair we in india werent much better. Wasnt there an incident when the british envoy gave a map of the world to the emperor Jehangir, he didnt even bother to open it.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by pravin

Iam not able to understand this sudden rise of patriotism by chinese posters
I have been readin this forum since many years but i had never seen these many
posters there used to be hardky one or two.I really doubt whether this board is available in China or not

The Hans are a very proud people.

Their mindset is shaped by the Concept of Legalism. The quickest way to understand it is at
Legalism (philosophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

The sudden onslaught, if I may use the word even though it is not what it is, has unnerved them since they had become the darling of the world and thought that the Olympics would showcase their coming out as an equal and not pariah nation with the big players of the world.

Therefore, their dreams have come crashing down and as far as the overseas Chinese are concerned, they feel that the Han prestige is taken a toss and hence are not too pleased.

As far as Tibet is concerned, the Chinese consider it as a vassal state and thus expect them to identify with the Han identity. Any rebellion thus to this diktat is an action against the State and that is not accepted by the mindset set by Legalism and it does not matter if the Han feeling so is a Communist or not a Communist or a Oversea Chinese.

[Parihaka]

Originally Posted by xunil

Interesting to read, isn't it.
Actually, China did paid attention to the rest of the world. But after Zheng He, China closed up. For next several hundreds of years, western countries started industry revolution, but China didn't caught up.

It fascinates me. I've never read a good explanation of why China closed up after Zheng He, any ideas?

[Mobbme]

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

All new members, please be advised that we will no longer tolerate unsubstantiated claims by either side on this issue. Frankly, I have had enough of

1) I come from China
2) The Chinese are right
3) The Tibetans are right
4) Life in China is much better now
5) We have freedom, you just don't understand
6) I am here to correct your misconceptions

This horse has been beaten to a bloody pulp. Unless you have something new to add, I do not want to hear this anymore.

Sir, so whats allowed is china bashing? I don't see how "life in china is much better now" should be dis-allowed, but "china is a bad country 20 years ago" is allowed? Shouldn't it be equal? I see one chinese poster come on and hes surrounded and bashed by dozens of other members, for good reason it may, but there should be a limit to it, no? If he's called a brainwashed fool, why isn't he allowed to throw in his criticism into the pot? If members are stating opinions, a chinese member should be allowed to correct those opinions with facts (*I am here to correct your misconceptions*)

Sir, I am always with you in whatever you say or do, so if you delete my post I have no problem at all with it. Like another moderator/administrator noted, he'd like more chinese users, I also want more chinese users. I also want them to STAY and be a part of WAB even after the Olympics is over. Its not like everyday we get to hear from the other side, I think we should welcome it.

[citanon]

Originally Posted by Parihaka

It fascinates me. I've never read a good explanation of why China closed up after Zheng He, any ideas?

I've heard various explanations along the following lines:

1. Money - China still had to defend against the Mongols, and Zheng He's expeditions weren't exactly cheap
2. Power struggle - Zheng He was a Muslim enuch and as such wasn't exactly loved by Confucian officials. After his death, court officials wanted to destroy his legacy and concocted a bunch of ******** reasons to do it.
3. Threat to central control - The Ming dynasty emperors were notoriously authoritarian. The chaos and freedom of the open seas were a direct threat to their absolute control in the coastal provinces.

As usual in history, the real reason was probably some combination of all three plus additional factors we do not / will never know about.

[Ray]

Apr 19 05:04 PM
BANGKOK

About two hundred China supporters taunted pro-Tibet demonstrators as the Olympic torch was paraded through Bangkok amid tight security on Saturday.

Police pushed back several people who tried to advance beyond barricades to counter demonstrations by scores of activists angry at China's human rights record and rule over Tibet.

A crowd dressed in red waving China flags gathered outside the regional headquarters of the United Nations, chanting pro-China slogans as the demonstrators held aloft banners saying "no torch in Tibet" and "one world, one dream, free Tibet".

"They are killing many Tibetans, like animals," said one protester, who had "free Tibet" scrawled on his bare chest.

A police helicopter hovered overhead as the torch and runners began their 10.5-km relay in the city's China Town, watched by Olympic marshals and tightly escorted by police patrols and motorcycles.

The parade got underway without incident with crowds cheering as the symbolic flame made the short journey towards the golden-spired Grand Palace.

"We, Thailand, confirm our pure intention to separate politics from sport and give our support to China for the 2008 Olympics in Beijing," deputy prime minister Sanan Kajornprasart, told the crowd.

State television in China made no mention of the protests in its report Very Happy on the relay in the Thai capital, saying that it received a rapturous welcome.

"There were no disharmonious voices ROTFL ," the report said.

Several thousand police have been drafted in to protect the parade route, which has not been altered by security chiefs despite the planned demonstration.

MALAYSIA RUN

Malaysia announced on Saturday it will deploy police commandos to beef up security for Monday's run through Kuala Lumpur. They will escort the torch bearers over the 16.5-km route, newspapers said.

There were some early signs of concerns on Friday after about 20 followers of Falun Gong, the religious group outlawed by Beijing, protested peacefully outside the Chinese embassy in Kuala Lumpur.

"We are prepared to counter any form of disturbance from anyone or any organisation," the Star newspaper quoted the city's police internal security chief K. Kumaran as saying.

The official China Daily on Saturday quoted French ambassador to China, Herve Ladsous, as saying he regretted what happened on the Paris leg of the relay, and would like to meet the disabled Chinese athlete targetted by protesters there.

"I deeply regret what happened," he said.

"I hope I can meet Jin Jing in person to show friendship and my deep regret," Ladsous added, referring to the disabled athlete, who has rocketed to national fame in China after fending off anti-China protesters in Paris.

The Olympic Games take place in Beijing from Aug. 8-24

Anti-China protests at Olympic torch run in Bangkok - Yahoo! India News

Bharat Rakshak Forum :: View topic - Tibet Watch- 2008-Part 6

[Ray]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Mobbme

Sir, so whats allowed is china bashing? I don't see how "life in china is much better now" should be dis-allowed, but "china is a bad country 20 years ago" is allowed? Shouldn't it be equal? I see one chinese poster come on and hes surrounded and bashed by dozens of other members, for good reason it may, but there should be a limit to it, no? If he's called a brainwashed fool, why isn't he allowed to throw in his criticism into the pot? If members are stating opinions, a chinese member should be allowed to correct those opinions with facts (*I am here to correct your misconceptions*)

No China bashing should not be done.

There can be no limit if nonsense without facts and links are avoided as proof. Or do you suggest that what the Chinese have to say is the truth and others are paid capitalist agents and running dogs of Uncle Sam?

Such a slur was addressed and implied to the Indians by your beloved Chinese.

Were where you then, Mr FairPlay?

Sir, I am always with you in whatever you say or do, so if you delete my post I have no problem at all with it. Like another moderator/administrator noted, he'd like more chinese users, I also want more chinese users. I also want them to STAY and be a part of WAB even after the Olympics is over. Its not like everyday we get to hear from the other side, I think we should welcome it.

why are you stopping at Moderators wanting more Chinese on this forum

I am one step ahead of them.

I am fighting for them to be here and I am not too sure if the Moderators are getting fed up of me.

I want them to stay too,

And are you an Oversea Chinese or of Chinese descent?

Nothing wrong in stating so,

Just curious!

Between you and me, I have Chinese relatives and they are very nice people.

You can Mob Me any time with your post and it will be a pleasure to reply,

[dave lukins]

[quote=Ray;485202]

No China bashing should not be done.

There can be no limit if nonsense without facts and links are avoided as proof. Or do you suggest that what the Chinese have to say is the truth and others are paid capitalist agents and running dogs of Uncle Sam?

Such a slur was addressed and implied to the Indians by your beloved Chinese.

Were where you then, Mr FairPlay?



why are you stopping at Moderators wanting more Chinese on this forum

I am one step ahead of them.

I am fighting for them to be here and I am not too sure if the Moderators are getting fed up of me.

I want them to stay too,

And are you an Oversea Chinese or of Chinese descent?

Nothing wrong in stating so,

Just curious!

Between you and me, I have Chinese relatives and they are very nice people.

You can Mob Me any time with your post and it will be a pleasure to reply,

Gentlemen, the last thing we want, or need, is WABbers to get at each others throats. If there is a problem do as you should ..air your views with the Mod's. Fighting each other will solve nothing and the Posts that started it will have long gone. Deep breaths and start again please Gents

[Officer of Engineers]

Originally Posted by Mobbme

Sir, so whats allowed is china bashing? I don't see how "life in china is much better now" should be dis-allowed, but "china is a bad country 20 years ago" is allowed? Shouldn't it be equal? I see one chinese poster come on and hes surrounded and bashed by dozens of other members, for good reason it may, but there should be a limit to it, no? If he's called a brainwashed fool, why isn't he allowed to throw in his criticism into the pot? If members are stating opinions, a chinese member should be allowed to correct those opinions with facts (*I am here to correct your misconceptions*)

Sir, I am always with you in whatever you say or do, so if you delete my post I have no problem at all with it. Like another moderator/administrator noted, he'd like more chinese users, I also want more chinese users. I also want them to STAY and be a part of WAB even after the Olympics is over. Its not like everyday we get to hear from the other side, I think we should welcome it.

So that all may understand, even the new Chinese posters.

We are well aware that there is a concentrated campaign starting from anti-CNN to spam WAB. That is their ONLY intent. They are not here to discuss. They are here to dictate.

As you are well aware, WAB is dominated by soldier thinking, if not by airmen, soldiers, and sailors themselves. We do not appreciate people telling us how to think. After the last spam from people who do not even have the courtesy to communicate in English on an English forum, my tolerance for this horse puckey is at an end.

Be that as it may, we have not instituted mass banning and we will not. We are demanding, however, that new posters step up to the plate and provide VERIFIABLE FACTS instead of ad-homeni opinions. To say all 1.3 Billion Chinese support the cause is pure cow droppings. No one can point to a poll saying such things and we will not accept that as truth. We could and do accept the protests to French businesses in China as fact.

That being said, I am extremely disappointed in the lot of new Chinese posters. Very few have the convictions of their beliefs and fewer still are capable of having their convictions challenged.

I would like to thank the Brigadier who provided the bulk of the challenge to the new Chinese posters. Few stood up. Those who did are still here. Those who didn't are gone or on their way out.

Maybe if there was no campaign from anti-CNN, we would be a bit more flexible but we don't appreciate people who wants nothing more than to silence disagreement through shouting instead of facts.

And just an FYI, Mobme, I've also banned pro-Tibetan posters for exactly the same kind of thing.