(CNN)Jack Cafferty on China - Page 4

Ray · 04-11-2008, 06:24 AM

[quote=ying;480432]

Quote:

To the legitimacy issue:

Although the human right in China is not well protected, we do have some rules to protect the basic rights of human just as same as the legislation in western. In China, you can not kill others at will but we do have exception on some minority inhabitant, such as Tibet and Xin Jiang. My driver, a very strong Tibetan, was always wearing his beautiful knife (I love the knife

). And he told me that some Tibetan tribes fight sometimes. It’s also reported that Han girls are raped in Lhasa. So I was warned no to go outside in night when I was in Tibet. What I have to tell you is that all these behaviors which definitely will be considered to be crime in whatever civilized countries are usually not prosecuted in Tibet and Xin Jiang unless the crime is too serious.

I love the Kukri, which is a Nepalese mini sword.

But that does not make Nepal, India!

Han girls are raped in Lhasa as any girl is raped in the world. It is a psychological and social problem. Or are you suggesting it has something to do with ethnicity?

Yes, law and order must be there. But if has to be done with finesse. Indeed, if it is a rebellion, then admit it and use APCs if you will, but please do not act coy. What is it a rebellion or just a law and order problem?

Quote:

Regarding the question that Han is “holy” or not, I have to say, Han is not “holy”. But since we are majority and Chinese government may ask us to strictly comply with all laws and regulations. Han can not utilize the so called “culture defense” in China but Tibet and other minority may.

Are you suggesting that Hans are not proud of their hertiage? If so, what is all this humbug one is seeing from Chinese posters about the great and ancient Chinese civilisation and heritage?

Admit you are barbarians and no one will complain!

Are Hans barbarians?

I am sure that all Hans will protest as they should since there are also great achievement in the Chinese heritage and culture that the world cherishes!

braindead · 04-11-2008, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravi12

I thought I saw a post from Belle /or someone else. He summed it up so nicely.
I was writing eons and eons of bandwidth, and he wrote it up in just one sentence

Damn, when will I learn such simple language?

.

Guess it was mine , I deleted it, because I thought it was not important enough

Basicly I said that as former citizen of Sov.Union I know that a nation that declares itself ´Big Brother´ to everybody creates automatic contempt and mistrust on those other nations it wants to be ´brotherly´. Usually the others don´t want to be their brothers ...

And that Tibet is not a charity project to China, despite them trying to present it so .

Hu Jintao · 04-11-2008, 07:39 AM

That photos tell a lot.

First, I rarely see that kind of tractors in China in other area. Either the family land is too small so they don't use or farmers rent big tractors to do the work. The family size tractor is more expensive since you only use that 1-2 weeks per year. It's the samething for resident in north America drving mobil lawnmowers, quite a luxury stuff for regular folks.

Second I see Tibetans driving snowmobile, which is just beyond imagination. It's a very expensive and luxury toy even in the west.

And one photo shows Tibetan motor cyclists took a rest at road side, drinking beer, that sucks. They're reckless.

Ray · 04-11-2008, 07:46 AM

Guess what?

India's hill people are also reckless and spend money as if there is no tomorrow!

braindead · 04-11-2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hu Jintao

That photos tell a lot.

First, I rarely see that kind of tractors in China in other area. Either the family land is too small so they don't use or farmers rent big tractors to do the work. The family size tractor is more expensive since you only use that 1-2 weeks per year. It's the samething for resident in north America drving mobil lawnmowers, quite a luxury stuff for regular folks.

Maybe he earns his living by renting it out to others

Second I see Tibetans driving snowmobile, which is just beyond imagination. It's a very expensive and luxury toy even in the west.

One man´s luxury is another man´s tool . Horses are luxury item in many parts of the world. And maybe he rents this snowmobile for tourists too

And one photo shows Tibetan motor cyclists took a rest at road side, drinking beer, that sucks. They're reckless.

.

Bigfella · 04-11-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hu Jintao

That photos tell a lot.

First, I rarely see that kind of tractors in China in other area. Either the family land is too small so they don't use or farmers rent big tractors to do the work. The family size tractor is more expensive since you only use that 1-2 weeks per year. It's the samething for resident in north America drving mobil lawnmowers, quite a luxury stuff for regular folks.

Second I see Tibetans driving snowmobile, which is just beyond imagination. It's a very expensive and luxury toy even in the west.

And one photo shows Tibetan motor cyclists took a rest at road side, drinking beer, that sucks. They're reckless.

It is obvious that you are concerned by the unfair way in which Han Chinese are treated in comparison to those priviledged Tibetans. No doubt there is a danger that this will provoke some sort of unrest among the poor opressed Han.

It is also clear that the spoiled Tibetans still do not accept all the wonderful benefits that being subjects of China. They do not see the Han as brothers. They do not appreciate that when the Chinese state limits their ability to express opinions or access those of others it is only protecting them from themselves. They clearly do not understand that when the Chinese government denies them the right to vote for the political candidate of their choice or govern themselves it is only because the Han know that the poor Tibetans are incapable of making such choices. These people are unworthy to be subjects of the Chinese Communist Party.

I can see only one soloution to save China from the greedy, ungrateful Tibetans - separation. Since they clearly cannot function within the Chinese State, give them their own state. Separate the Han from the Tibetans before it is too late! That way you can save China from the scourge of the greedy Tibetans while also giving the Tibetans a powerful lesson in what happens to greedy minorities - no more handouts. Let them sink on their own.

Ray · 04-11-2008, 11:38 AM

Too much!

chankya · 04-11-2008, 14:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cct94

As someone who grew up in China in the '70s and '80s, and who was resettled from my grandfather's home along the way... I have strong opinions on this.

It's not about having a Sony camcorder. It's about having indoor plumbing, an air conditioner, and more than one change of clothes. I grew up without all of those things. Our most prized asset was a 9" black/white TV. We made telephone calls by going down to the store on the corner, and we made international phone calls at the post office. The thought of flying on a plane was foreign to me. I remember distinctly my first taste of orange juice and coca-cola; both came after I was into my teenage years.

You're Indian, correct Chakya? Were you raised in India, or in San Jose? I don't mean to preach, but I suspect many in developed nations don't understand what it is to live in a developing country. Look around San Jose today, and you'll see illegal Mexican immigrants living without a trace of human dignity or political/legal rights... why? Just so that they can buy a Sony Camcorder.

Frankly, the vast majority of Chinese understand the need for massive resettlement. My home town was torn down in huge swathes during the '90s; I'm talking a 5 block by 5 block area would be torn down... and rebuilt from the ground up with modern streets, power cabling, sewage lines, and new apartment buildings. We all understand a price is paid for this to happen; although 95% of the people on that piece of land appreciated their new apartments (with indoor plumbing!), a small minority might suffer. Frankly, that's a price the Chinese people believe should be paid.

I don't know what solutions you have for eliminating slums in India, or whether that's an issue that's even close to your heart... but for the Chinese, we do feel a certain sense of urgency. We want our country to become developed; we want our children to fly on planes, use computers, vacation in the Bahamas... and yes, use Sony camcorders.

I grew up in India and India was in a worse state till atleast the 90s.(Well, we had indoor plumbing but no water.

India has crippling water shortages) I'll say this though: I'll take freedom over fast economic development. I say "fast" specifically because we have development, just not at the breakneck speed that you do.

We don't have houses being torn down to build highways. It takes time in India. The govt proposes compensation. Someone takes the govt. to court over it... etc etc. It is frustrating but that is a just system. Or atleast a human enough system trying to be just. I don't want a know it all government doing what it thinks is best for me. I want to be able to challenge it. I trust the average Indian to do what is right by him and by our country. That's where we diverge. You'd rather trust the local politburo.

If you're willing to give up freedom and rights for "fast" economic development then I'm not sure I have anything to say that'll convince you.

friedchicken · 04-12-2008, 23:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigfella

It is obvious that you are concerned by the unfair way in which Han Chinese are treated in comparison to those priviledged Tibetans. No doubt there is a danger that this will provoke some sort of unrest among the poor opressed Han.

It is also clear that the spoiled Tibetans still do not accept all the wonderful benefits that being subjects of China. They do not see the Han as brothers. They do not appreciate that when the Chinese state limits their ability to express opinions or access those of others it is only protecting them from themselves. They clearly do not understand that when the Chinese government denies them the right to vote for the political candidate of their choice or govern themselves it is only because the Han know that the poor Tibetans are incapable of making such choices. These people are unworthy to be subjects of the Chinese Communist Party.

I can see only one soloution to save China from the greedy, ungrateful Tibetans - separation. Since they clearly cannot function within the Chinese State, give them their own state. Separate the Han from the Tibetans before it is too late! That way you can save China from the scourge of the greedy Tibetans while also giving the Tibetans a powerful lesson in what happens to greedy minorities - no more handouts. Let them sink on their own.

Then why the west countries are so eager and passionate to "help" the chinese ppl to improve their human rights and "save" us from our evil government, while apparently most of chinese people don't appreciate that?

Why don't you just let us sink on our own?

(The same can be applied to: Why don't US just let Iraq people sink on their own?)

Ok I know you were just following someone else' logic, and me too.

friedchicken · 04-13-2008, 00:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chankya

I grew up in India and India was in a worse state till atleast the 90s.(Well, we had indoor plumbing but no water.

India has crippling water shortages) I'll say this though: I'll take freedom over fast economic development. I say "fast" specifically because we have development, just not at the breakneck speed that you do.

We don't have houses being torn down to build highways. It takes time in India. The govt proposes compensation. Someone takes the govt. to court over it... etc etc. It is frustrating but that is a just system. Or atleast a human enough system trying to be just. I don't want a know it all government doing what it thinks is best for me. I want to be able to challenge it. I trust the average Indian to do what is right by him and by our country. That's where we diverge. You'd rather trust the local politburo.

If you're willing to give up freedom and rights for "fast" economic development then I'm not sure I have anything to say that'll convince you.

Sincerely, I think India did a good job for what they have achieved in last 50+ years. But I don't think if China just copy & paste the Indian mode in last 50 years, China would be much better now and Chinese people would live more happily today. Do you?

What is good and bad for as big as a country is never just that simple like playing Simcity. Don't judge someone else only based on what you see NOW, compare today's China with 30 years before, you'll find some significant changes and it is on the right direction. Do you think the blacks in US 30 years ago had the same rights and respects as today? No change is happened overnight.

ying · 04-13-2008, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigfella

It is obvious that you are concerned by the unfair way in which Han Chinese are treated in comparison to those priviledged Tibetans. No doubt there is a danger that this will provoke some sort of unrest among the poor opressed Han.

It is also clear that the spoiled Tibetans still do not accept all the wonderful benefits that being subjects of China. They do not see the Han as brothers. They do not appreciate that when the Chinese state limits their ability to express opinions or access those of others it is only protecting them from themselves. They clearly do not understand that when the Chinese government denies them the right to vote for the political candidate of their choice or govern themselves it is only because the Han know that the poor Tibetans are incapable of making such choices. These people are unworthy to be subjects of the Chinese Communist Party.

I can see only one soloution to save China from the greedy, ungrateful Tibetans - separation. Since they clearly cannot function within the Chinese State, give them their own state. Separate the Han from the Tibetans before it is too late! That way you can save China from the scourge of the greedy Tibetans while also giving the Tibetans a powerful lesson in what happens to greedy minorities - no more handouts. Let them sink on their own.

Please stop using those dirty words on our Tibetan people even though you are supporting their independence.

Tibetan is holier than most nations I have ever met!

As I have said somewhere else, leaving Tibet alone is not our Chinese way to solve problem. China has 56 different nations and it is definitely all of them have their own problems. Even among Han people, there is distinctive difference between the Northern Han and Sour then Han. If one nation has problem then we just dump her, we should collapse to more than 60 countries or even more. China will no longer be China! Han-Chinese is combined by three or more nations and even the most famous king of China, Li Shi Min of Tang dynasty is not Han! And in the history of Tibet, there were Lama who are Han and Mongolian. Various nations mixed or mergered or developed side by side and so comes the so called Chinese now. China is not only the country for Han-Chinese but also the country for all nations living in this land.

Chinese way to solve minority problem is much softer than typical western way. Your way is knife and fire while our way is somehow like water. Water is soft but it may solve problem by minimizing the damages to both parties involved. The most apparent evidence is our minority policy which now is highly criticized by some Chinese nationalists. I used to live in Ning Xia, a Muslim inhabitant. Even though there are still many Han people have been living there for thousands of years, they can not even say anything about "pig" in public. In some areas, those poor Chinese peasants can not carry pigs when they are taking bus and they have to walk back to home with their pigs to home which is usually dozens kilometers away from the market. Otherwise, they will be beaten by Muslim. In Beijing, there is a famous Muslim district named Niu Street. Along this long street, you can not find any restaurant service pork though many Han people have been living there for generations.

I don’t expect westerners may understand Chinese philosophy and the way Chinese people have been living with for thousands of years. What I believe is there are various ways to go to Rome. The history will prove everything.

troung · 04-13-2008, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Please stop using those dirty words on our Tibetan people even though you are supporting their independence. Tibetan is holier than most nations I have ever met!

Quoted for sheer block-headiness.

There should be a basic English literacy and reading comprehension test so idiots like him would be unable to post here.

Quote:

And in the history of Tibet, there were Lama who are Han and Mongolian. Various nations mixed or mergered or developed side by side and so comes the so called Chinese now. China is not only the country for Han-Chinese but also the country for all nations living in this land.

Sure. It's actually a fascist country which plays off Han nationalism to keep in power.

Quote:

Your way is knife and fire while our way is somehow like water.

Are you stupid?

Quote:

Even though there are still many Han people have been living there for thousands of years, they can not even say anything about "pig" in public. In some areas, those poor Chinese peasants can not carry pigs when they are taking bus and they have to walk back to home with their pigs to home which is usually dozens kilometers away from the market.

Yeah that has made the East Turkestanis and others decide to end their wanting of autonomy or freedom, banning pigs.

ying · 04-13-2008, 02:29 AM

[quote=Ray;480478]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ying

Yes, law and order must be there. But if has to be done with finesse. Indeed, if it is a rebellion, then admit it and use APCs if you will, but please do not act coy. What is it a rebellion or just a law and order problem?

Are you suggesting that Hans are not proud of their hertiage? If so, what is all this humbug one is seeing from Chinese posters about the great and ancient Chinese civilisation and heritage?

Admit you are barbarians and no one will complain!

Are Hans barbarians?

I am sure that all Hans will protest as they should since there are also great achievement in the Chinese heritage and culture that the world cherishes!

This is why I said somewhere before, please do not fooled by the Commuist Goverment. Please think thing through. What happened in Tibet in March can not be translated simpliy as "movement of indepdence".

It seems my understanding of "holy" is different from yours. Except God (here means all worshiped in various religions) is holy, nobody is holy. We Chinese are just ordinary people with all the weakness of human being. Chinese peasants save and raise Japanese children who were dumped by Japanese army in World War II though those peasants’ own sons were killed by Japanese. But it is also we Chinese oppress Chinese even now days.

If you dislike Chinese and China, please just keep quiet. No need to be hositle to all Chinese. I will not response to your provocative words any more. I am here to exchange ideas with those who really care Tibetan, not to fight with anti-China activists.

ying · 04-13-2008, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troung

Quoted for sheer block-headiness.

There should be a basic English literacy and reading comprehension test so idiots like him would be unable to post here.

Sure. It's actually a fascist country which plays off Han nationalism to keep in power.

Are you stupid?

Yeah that has made the Uighurs and others decide to end their wanting of automony or freedom, banning pigs.

Same words to you. I am here to exchange the ideas with those who really care Tibet, not to fight with anti-China activists. If you know nothing about Tibet and what you all know is to insult Chinese, I will not response to you any more.

friedchicken · 04-13-2008, 02:47 AM

Ying, take it easy. You are really not helping here...

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04-11-2008, 07:39 AM	#48 (permalink)
Hu Jintao Banished Join Date: 04-05-08 Posts: 82 Country:	That photos tell a lot. First, I rarely see that kind of tractors in China in other area. Either the family land is too small so they don't use or farmers rent big tractors to do the work. The family size tractor is more expensive since you only use that 1-2 weeks per year. It's the samething for resident in north America drving mobil lawnmowers, quite a luxury stuff for regular folks. Second I see Tibetans driving snowmobile, which is just beyond imagination. It's a very expensive and luxury toy even in the west. And one photo shows Tibetan motor cyclists took a rest at road side, drinking beer, that sucks. They're reckless.

04-11-2008, 07:46 AM	#49 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 26,136 Country:	Guess what? India's hill people are also reckless and spend money as if there is no tomorrow!

04-11-2008, 11:38 AM	#52 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 26,136 Country:	Too much!

04-13-2008, 02:47 AM	#60 (permalink)
friedchicken New Member Join Date: 04-11-08 Location: Flint, MI Posts: 6 Country:	Ying, take it easy. You are really not helping here...

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