marklv

Well, all of the good tings that have been achieved in Cuba (good health service, education etc) were also achieved by Nazi Germany in the late 1930s, but that doesn't make it any less loathsome as a regime. The problem with Cuba in 1959 is that there was great economic inequality; now there is equality, but only at the lowest common denominator. This is the problem with 'pure' socialism - to achieve economic equality you have to use the lowest common economic denominator. It cannot be any other way, because wealth is created by individual entrepreneurs, not governments. Governments can guide, direct and set regulations, but they cannot create wealth.

Economics is driven by greed; it's as simple as that. In many ways, the characted 'Gordon Gekko' played by Michael Douglas in the movie 'Wall Street' was entirely correct: greed is good. Because without it you have no way of motivating people to be more productive in their lives. Communism (or Socialism as a milder form) seeks to remove greed from economics and replace it with planning from the government. This cannot work because unless employees are under the threat of being fired for underperformance, they will not perform. If I am paid for doing nothing, why should I do any work? Sure, some people will still work hard, but a minority. Capitalism offers rewards for being successful in your chosen career, while communism offers a flase utopia. Economics all about a darwinian struggle between individuals, a war in which there are winners and losers. It can be no other way - the only other choice is to return to a feudal economy, such as which had existed in many parts of the world until the 19th century. A feudal economy is based on effective slavery, where the 'losers' of the world are forced to work for the 'winners', in return for little or nothing. At least capitalism offers a way out of poverty, feudalism was a life sentence.

As for the Cuban people, I like them - certainly a lot more than other hispanic peoples of the region like the Mexicans.

Elbmek

I am naturally suspicious of the American view, it seems somewhat biased to me, sort of "Well they beat us up, so we wont let them off the hook" thing. Cuba gave America a bloody nose! The email from Cuba (Bodie) says it all really; its not THAT bad and certainly not as bad as quite a few "western" nations.

When the US were pushed out of Vietnam, the airwaves were full of anti communist propaganda and Vietnam was Doomed! Doomed! Doomed! They would regress into the dark middle ages. And other suchlike retorts.

I regular converse with a Vietnam lad in a different forum. I asked him straight - what was it like - he said we learn, we work, we have money, we have technology, we have food, we have peace and we have LIFE!! Enough said.

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BenRoethig

I would, but I think we'd have to fight MGM Mirage, Harrahs, and the Donald for that land.

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F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

Shek

They did.

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"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

Shek

Let's stack it up against World Health Organization stats.

Cuba
Total expenditure on health per capita (Intl $, 2004): 229
Children under five years of age stunted for age (%): 9.6 (2000)
Population with sustainable access to improved drinking water sources (%) urban: 95 (2004)
Population with sustainable access to improved drinking water sources (%) rural: 78 (2004)
Population with sustainable access to improved sanitation (%) urban: 99 (2004)
Population with sustainable access to improved sanitation (%) rural: 95 (2004)

A whopping $229/person per year. As a comparison, the US spends $6,096/person per year, and the UK spends $2,560.

Where do you want to go for your medical care? I doubt that there will be a market for medical tourism in Cuba.

How about that 10% figure of stunted kids? Not as bad as some Western nations? Don't think so.

Mark hit the nail on the head - there may be equality, but it's at the lowest common denominator.

If you want humanity, I'm sure plenty of US posters can talk about the humanity in their towns. I know I can. I can talk about the humanity I saw in Italy during the time I lived there.

If you ask me why Cubans didn't focus on working too hard, the answer is easy. Why? You'll earn the same, so what is the incentive? That's not humanity in my book, but the lack of it provided by the regime.

KostasGR12

I don't expect cuba to change its political system it will continue to have communism. I also belive that Fidel's brother Raul wont be as strong and he wont have the influence that Fidel has, so I don't know how he will manage both the inside and outside problems especially the inside ones. Ofcourse it is a "new page" for Cuba I believe the changes will start after Fidel's death. At the moment everything it would be the same.. After fidel's death I believe that Cuba will adopt a bit of more free market policies but the principles will be the same.

Thanks

Wraith601

You can make a valid case that lifting the embargo would do more to end the Castro junta than keeping it in place will.

Of course anyone who thinks Fidel is suddenly any less powerful is a fool. He will run the country, maybe behind the scenes but he still will run it, till he dies.

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"We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France."
-Sir Arthur Wellesley

gunnut

OH...I don't know. I know plenty of Vietnamese people. Most of them escaped before the fall. Some of them refugees after the fall. Some came out recently, and legally. All of them say the same thing: Vietnam is prosperous right due to a switch to market economy. Before that, they had nothing. They often go back because they still have relatives there. All of them bring money and luxury items back.

These are not people I ask on forums. These are my coworkers, friends, and shopkeepers I know.

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"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

braindead

Vietnam was AFAIK the only communist country that sent it´s workers to distant West , that being Sov.Union and War.Pact countries to work and earn money .
I remember seeing some Vietnamese foreign workers about 20 years back .

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nizawa

I am not so optimistic, Raul is too clever to ignore the presence of his big
brother who is watching.

gamercube

Hopefully Castro is not too ill. He has been one of the great leaders of the 20th century, and he will definitely be remembered. As his comrade once said,

"Hasta la Victoria Siempre!"

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Hasta la Victoria siempre!

chankya

That's misleading. The cost of medical care in America is exorbitant due in large part to the large malpractice insurance doctors take out. The value for each dollar spent would be a better indicator of health care. How much does a CT scan cost in the US? How much does it cost in Cuba? How much for a dental filling? I don't know the answers to those questions but those are the real indicators of medical care not raw money spent.

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"Of all the manifestations of power, restraint impresses men the most." - Thucydides

gunnut

Better method: the average cost of medical care as a percentage of the income of the average person.

If a CT scan costs $1000 in the US where the average income is $35000, it's not so much. But a CT scan that costs $250 in Cuba where the average income is $500 is quite a bit.

gunnut

You're kidding, right?

gamercube

Revision: A CT scan probably costs $0 in Cuba, because they have free, universal health care. So who is spending more?

No.